Russia General

[mistyronin 1181]

I am surprised by people who were never in Russia and get information about Russia only from the western media, and mistakenly think that they know better than me what's going on in my country ....

What about people like me who have been in Russia and have a good amount of Russian acquaintances ( even some friends )?

Well, the problem is that in Russia you have glorified the Soviet soldiers of WW2 (and Stalin to some extend) to eternal heroes. I don´t dispute that the Soviet soldiers were good fighters and that they had to be brave to do what they did, but the common Russian completely ignores (or doesn´t know about) everything that came in the wake of the Red Army. Looting, pillaging, raping, deportations, mass executions. Then add to that the more than 40 years of harsh occupation, political, economical and cultural repression east europe had to endure.

The good thing of that, is that for some reason the Soviet archives have thousands of reports of all that, all the crimes the Red Army committed ( unless Putin erased them lately ); a lot of them were totally unknown during the Cold War, but after the fall of the USSR all were released to international investigators.

So basically most of the members of the Red Army during WW2 were thugs according to their own archives. Tho that can be explained because most of them had only a bare minimum education and were forced to fight in really bad conditions, commanded by even more awful leaders ( that even ordered infantry marches to clear mine fields ). There's even cases of a few proper officers who killed their own men because they were raping and destroying chaotically.

@astral4eg Don't believe the "Western" propaganda, get access to the Soviet archives yourself and read the documents first hand ( and do it fast, before Putin erases them ).

Edited March 8, 2015 by MistyRonin

[astral4eg 10]

From the latest news. Former Soviet Gulag changes it's format. There will absolutely NO MARTYRDOM anymore. From now on the exhibition inside the former camp will be dedicated to explain how soviet penal system functioned and under how terrible condition prison guards had to work to keep those "enemies" of the state in line. No more slapping of Joseph Stalin and no more blaming of the Soviet Union for all the misery, let's simply forget about 50 millions. Time for the brave new world.

Imagine this in Germany. Dachau camp. No more holocaust, jewry and martyrdom. Because how long you will be blaming the most richest and influential nation of Europe? Instead - hard working conditions and misery of the SS-Totenkopf guards. Sweet.

from where figure is 50 million? why not 100?

[Tonci87 163]

from where figure is 50 million? why not 100?

See Mistys post, all documented in the Soviet archives. If you don´t believe us, go check yourself.

[astral4eg 10]

See Mistys post, all documented in the Soviet archives. If you don´t believe us, go check yourself.

Link please

[vilas 473]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

because of great hunger - lots of Ukrainians died and thats why there is now there big Russian minority - cause simply Ukrainians died

etc. etc. etc

communism killed more than Hitler,of course Hitler did it in 6 years, communism much longer, Tsars were also not saint

[Tonci87 163]

Link please

Are you shiting me? State Archive of the Russian Federation (ГоÑударÑтвенный архив РоÑÑийÑкой Федерации (ГÐРФ)), Moscow Bol'shaya Pirogovskaya ul., 17

[oxmox 73]

@you guys cant offer a link with defined numbers, becaue it is even controversial under historians. The numbers are often guesses.

--> And in addition the problem is that modern history of the 20th century is often politicized.

Fact is that there were quiete high numbers of victims under brutal and repressive dictatorships like Mao, Stalin and Hitler.

Nowadays the estimations are between 3-4 million and above 20 million victims under Stalinism.

There are no accurate numbers around, parts of it are rather estimations.

From Wiki and you can check the sources: (i.e. Applebaum, Wheatcraft,..)

"Before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, researchers who attempted to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million. After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953),[104] around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – with a total of about 2.9 million officially recorded victims in these categories."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Calculating_the_number_of_victims

US-Historian Timoty Snyder - Hitler vs. Stalin: Who Killed More?

http://www.nybooks.com/contributors/timothy-snyder-2/

The "Black Book Of Communism" by the french Historian Stéphane Courtois estimates and lists the following:

85-100 million victims under communist regimes in general

China: 65 million deaths

USSR: 20 million deaths

North Korea: 2 million deaths

Cambodia: 2 million deaths

Africa: 1.7 million

Afghanistan: 1.5 million deaths

Vietnam: 1 million deaths

Eastern Europe: 1 million deaths

Latin America: 150,000 deaths

the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power: about 10,000 deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes#cite_note-Courtois1999Introduction-1

Edited March 8, 2015 by oxmox

[ProfTournesol 956]

Controversial, certainly, but very high for sure. Nothing that can be hidden or rewritten.

[oxmox 73]

Controversial, certainly, but very high for sure. Nothing that can be hidden or rewritten.

Iam not so sure, the politicisation exist and was as an example visible in the Nuremberg Processes, where criminals did judge over criminals.

Civilian victims are getting remembered with a memorial or museum, trying to deal with the past wheras in other countries the perpetrator of such victims are celebrated as heroes.

[mistyronin 1181]

Link please

There is no Internet link, AFAIK the documents haven't been uploaded to Internet, you have to ask a permit to physically access them ( at least it was like that when I did research for a thesis on concentration camps ).

@you guys cant offer a link with defined numbers, becaue it is even controversial under historians. The numbers are often guesses.

I haven't talked about specific numbers. And estimations are not guesses, but approximations based in proved facts.

It's impossible to have the exact numbers, not even with cases like the Third Reich were the dept. of the SS, SS-Totenkopfverbände, in charge kept the numbers squared, but as always there are fortuitous events, etc.

What's clear is that during Stalin rule there were more internal deaths provoked by the state than during the Third Reich. Same can be said of the Mao Regime.

So yeah, quantitatively Stalin's USSR was worst than the Third Reich.

And by far Communism regimes in total have been worst and more criminals than Fascist regimes. Pure statistics.

As a side note, one of my grandfathers was prisoner in a fascist concentration camps for years.

Edited March 8, 2015 by MistyRonin

[astral4eg 10]

Are you shiting me? State Archive of the Russian Federation (ГоÑударÑтвенный архив РоÑÑийÑкой Федерации (ГÐРФ)), Moscow Bol'shaya Pirogovskaya ul., 17

specifically link to document of course...

but now everything is clear, the figure of 50 million is taken from the "True western media"

All victims of repression during the Soviet period, according to the human rights organization "Memorial", was from 11 - 25 million people. Among them:

- 4.5 - 4.8 million people have been convicted for political reasons, of which approximately 1.1 million were shot, others were in the Gulag;

- At least 6.5 million were deported

- About 4 million have been disenfranchised by the 1918 Constitution

- 6 - 7 million starved to death in 1932-1933.

on other data, in statistical book of the Supreme Court in 1958 said about 17,960,000 sentenced for wartime decrees, of which 22.9%, or 4 113 thousand were sentenced to imprisonment, and the rest - to fines or corrective labor.

so that the tales of 50 million brutally tortured will tell your friends

Noticed an interesting feature when opponents end arguments that they translate topic on Stalin-gulag-repression :rolleyes:

Edited March 8, 2015 by astral4eg

[mistyronin 1181]

specifically link to document of course...

but now everything is clear, the figure of 50 million is taken from the "True western media"

In fact no. That 50 million is not the average scientific number when talking about Stalin's repression. According to sources and facts, an approximate one about Stalin's repression deaths is 20-23 million.

While to compare, the Third Reich killed from 3-4 to 8-10 million people ( among them approx. 6 million Jews ).

So yeah definitely, in numbers Stalin's Regime was worst than Hitler's Regime, twice or three times worst. And Mao also passed that number counting only the toll during the Great Chinese Famine.

So technically if you hate Nazis, you should hate Soviet Communist twice or three times more...

Edited March 8, 2015 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

specifically link to document of course...

but now everything is clear, the figure of 50 million is taken from the "True western media"

so that the tales of 50 million brutally tortured will tell your friends

Noticed an interesting feature when opponents end arguments that they translate topic on Stalin-gulag-repression :rolleyes:

Your ignorance is astounding. Does it matter if we talk about 50 million or 20 million? Do you understand that the numbers in the archive represent the minimal number of potential murders? What do you think, how many murders and excecutions have not been properly reported and documented? The historical fact is that the Soviets, just under Stalin, killed 2 to 3 times more people than Hitler did. It is crazy that some Russians see him as Hero.

Putin would like to rewrite that part of Russias history.

[astral4eg 10]

Your ignorance is astounding. Does it matter if we talk about 50 million or 20 million? Do you understand that the numbers in the archive represent the minimal number of potential murders? What do you think, how many murders and excecutions have not been properly reported and documented? The historical fact is that the Soviets, just under Stalin, killed 2 to 3 times more people than Hitler did. It is crazy that some Russians see him as Hero.

Putin would like to rewrite that part of Russias history.

ok, summarize killed: Stalin - 7-8, Hitler - 8-10

some Russians see him as hero because he got a backward agrarian country, destroyed after a severe civil war, and after it became a powerful industrial superpower with nuclear weapons.

but back to the topic, what can you say about this? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lng1FFJesYU

[oxmox 73]

....

Support for Putin Among Russian Voters Doubles

More than half of Russians would vote for President Vladimir Putin if a snap presidential election were held, a survey published Thursday showed.

Putin's approval rating currently stands at 86 percent, according to the Levada Center.

Fifty-five percent of the 1,600 adults across Russia polled about their voting intentions by the independent Levada Center last month said they would cast their ballot in favor of Putin if a snap presidential election were held the following weekend.

Of those people who said they would definitely turn out to vote and who had already made up their minds who to vote for, 86 percent would choose Putin, according to the poll, which had a margin of error not exceeding 3.4 percent.

Support for Putin has skyrocketed since Russia's annexation of Crimea last March. In January 2014, 29 percent of Russian voters said they would vote for Putin in a snap election. In April, after Crimea had joined Russia's federal fold, 49 percent of Russians were ready to cast their ballots in his favor. Putin's approval rating currently stands at 86 percent, according to the Levada Center.

The country's next parliamentary elections are scheduled to take place next year.

The latest Levada Center poll also revealed that 57 percent of Russians would like to see Putin re-elected in the 2018 presidential election.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/support-for-putin-among-russian-voters-doubles/517084.html

Juncker calls for EU army, says would deter Russia

The European Union needs its own army to face up to Russia and other threats as well as restore the bloc's foreign policy standing around the world, EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told a German newspaper on Sunday.

Arguing that NATO was not enough because not all members of the transatlantic defense alliance are in the EU, Juncker said a common EU army would also send important signals to the world.

"A joint EU army would show the world that there would never again be a war between EU countries," Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper. "Such an army would also help us to form common foreign and security policies and allow Europe to take on responsibility in the world."

"One wouldn't have a European army to deploy it immediately. But a common European army would convey a clear message to Russia that we are serious about defending our European values."

The 28-nation EU already has battle groups that are manned on a rotational basis and meant to be available as a rapid reaction force. But they have never been used in a crisis.

But Britain, along with France one of the two main military powers in the bloc, has been wary of giving a bigger military role to the EU, fearing it could undermine NATO.

German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen welcomed Juncker's proposal: "Our future as Europeans will at some point be with a European army," she told German radio.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/08/us-eu-defence-juncker-idUSKBN0M40KL20150308?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

...undermining NATO would be fanatastic for certain powers, since no veto by disturbing countries would exist anymore, isnt it. :p

Putin describes secret operation to seize Crimea

President Vladimir Putin has revealed the moment he says he gave the secret order for Russia's annexation of Crimea and described how Russian troops were ready to fight to rescue Ukraine's deposed, pro-Moscow president.

In a trailer shown Sunday for an upcoming documentary on state-run Rossiya-1 television called "Homeward bound", Putin openly discusses Moscow's controversial grabbing of Crimea a year ago.

In the trailer for the documentary, Putin also claims that Russia's military was ready to fight its way into the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk to get Yanukovych, a heavily corrupted but loyal figure who favoured keeping Ukraine in Russia's sphere of influence.

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-describes-secret-operation-seize-crimea-212858356.html

Edited March 9, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

ok, summarize killed: Stalin - 7-8, Hitler - 8-10

some Russians see him as hero because he got a backward agrarian country, destroyed after a severe civil war, and after it became a powerful industrial superpower with nuclear weapons.

That's just a joke. First you change the numbers reducing Stalin's ones. 7-8 can't be twice or three times as 8-10... Are you so ashamed of Stalin's actions?

Second Stalin's Five-year plans were the ones that destroyed the early USSR economy. Those plans lead the Soviet Union to suffer a cataclysmic famine between 1932 and 1933 and broke virtually all Soviet workers. The government did nothing to assist the starving, what little grain was harvested was brought to the cities for the Communist oligarchs.

The only economic victory that Stalin achieved, was to steal the resources and enslave the population of the countries the USSR invaded during WW2 ( a.k.a "liberated" according to Putin's history book ).

In fact at the beginning of that war, the USSR was so poor that required a lot of equipment and supplies from the US Lend-Lease plan. Or you don't remember about Stalin's scorched earth orders? The Order No. 227 and the penal battalions?

Even with all that booty the USSR stole from the invaded countries, Stalin and his successors managed to got broke to the point that at the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia was one of the poorest economies in the planet. Tho you are right, with atomic weapons... ( just like nowadays North Korea ).

To give you an idea at early 1990s, Coke ( Coca Cola ) was sold in Moscow inside plastic bags instead of cans... And animals were sold as meat in the streets.

It was only thanks to the foreign investors, mainly European and American ones that Russia could be modernized in the 2000s. At that time most of the World top-countries spent insane amounts of money to help Russia have a proper economy.

Even if Russia was becoming another authoritarian regime. They thought that Putin was only a danger to his own population (after all Russia has been ruled by tyrannic leaders during almost all the modern times). These World powers did not do much when Russia bullied and invaded Georgia. Everyone thought that it was only a Putin's little craziness, nothing to worry ( like with Hitler in Czechoslovakia ).

During all these years most of the European main-stream press has been saying that Putin and a stronger Russia could be a good commercial partner, a country that has to be respected. They even thought that a powerful Russia would benefit Europe and balance the US power. Heck there were even plans to give free Schengen visas to Russian citizens.

But Putin didn't wanted a strong modern Russia, he has plans for some kind of medieval absolutist Empire like in the Czarist times. In the same way ISIS is trying to build a Caliphate in middle East and northern Africa.

The funny fact is that Putin has managed to manipulate the Russian population to think that the economic progress in the 2000s was because of him and his policies. Nothing further away from truth, in fact he has been stealing from Russia as much as he can, increasing the balance of his secret Swiss accounts. And now that the Kremlin is bullying the international investors and Russia economy is free-falling, the truth is starting to show.

This last year Putin has been able to more or less survive using Russia's savings, but they are limited...

President Vladimir Putin has revealed the moment he says he gave the secret order for Russia's annexation of Crimea and described how Russian troops were ready to fight to rescue Ukraine's deposed, pro-Moscow president.

In a trailer shown Sunday for an upcoming documentary on state-run Rossiya-1 television called "Homeward bound", Putin openly discusses Moscow's controversial grabbing of Crimea a year ago.

Unfortunately nothing new, just more proves of how he lied to the World and to Russian citizens.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MistyRonin
ortography

[astral4eg 10]

That's just a joke. First you change the numbers reducing Stalin's ones. 7-8 can't be twice or three times as 8-10... Are you so ashamed of Stalin's actions?

I just said the real figures, ~20 million repressed does not mean that all of them were shot, in these ~20 million are included and deported and received punishment for minor offenses etc.

Second Stalin's Five-year plans were the ones that destroyed the early USSR economy. Those plans lead the Soviet Union to suffer a cataclysmic famine between 1932 and 1933 and broke virtually all Soviet workers. The government did nothing to assist the starving, what little grain was harvested was brought to the cities for the Communist oligarchs.

As a result of the collectivization of the most a workable healthy and young peasants fled to the city. In addition, about 2 million peasants who have fallen under dispossession of the kulaks, were deported to remote areas of the country.

Therefore, the beginning of the spring sowing in 1932 the village came up with a serious lack of draft power and dramatically degrade the quality of the labor force. As a result, fields sown with bread in 1932 in Ukraine, in the North Caucasus and other areas overgrown with weeds. On weeding work were sent even part of the Red Army. But it did not help, and the 1931-32 crop year, sufficient to prevent mass starvation, loss of grain during the harvest rose to unprecedented levels.

The only economic victory that Stalin achieved, was to steal the resources and enslave the population of the countries the USSR invaded during WW2 ( a.k.a "liberated" according to Putin's history book ).

In fact at the beginning of that war, the USSR was so poor that required a lot of equipment and supplies from the US Lend-Lease plan. Or you don't remember about Stalin's scorched earth orders? The Order No. 227 and the penal battalions?

Lend Lease - yes, Britain and the USA for the gold selling raw materials and equipment to the Soviet Union

Stalin's scorched earth - tell me more about what Stalin's scorched earth are you talking about

Even with all that booty the USSR stole from the invaded countries, Stalin and his successors managed to got broke to the point that at the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia was one of the poorest economies in the planet. Tho you are right, with atomic weapons... ( just like nowadays North Korea ).

and what the Soviet Union stole from destroyed by war countries?

Yes, in 90 years the situation was catastrophic, but with the advent of Putin, the situation began to improve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

Russia was one of the poorest economies in the planet :butbut::rolleyes:

Yes, backward poorest country in where I pay 20$ per month for 100 megabit full unlimited interet with white ip, in distant Siberia where bears walk on the streets))))

Of course were deficient in the USSR, I do not deny it

but blatantly lie too should not be.

It was only thanks to the foreign investors, mainly European and American ones that Russia could be modernized in the 2000s. At that time most of the World top-countries spent insane amounts of money to help Russia have a proper economy.

What?))

Russia have helped by high oil prices and adequate President rather than US and European "friends"

Edited March 9, 2015 by astral4eg

[Sub-Human 10]

What?))

Russia have helped by high oil prices and adequate President rather than US and European "friends"

High oil prices and credits by Western banks. Russian debt increased by almost 8 times (in 1998 Russian banks had a debt of 18 billion USD, by 2014 it was 192 billion, companies like Gazprom and Rosneft have their debt equal to their net value). Oil prices by almost 10 times.

Now oil prices have fallen and Russia is under isolation (so no more loans for Putin), how does 'adequate president' react? Pull troops out of Ukraine, try to solve problem diplomatically? No, he introduces 'anti-sanctions' that only help to increase prices for the regular citizen... So much that the Duma now says 'anti-sanctions' are unconstitutional and should be removed. It is equivalent to Kim Jong saying, 'no more aid from China and USA, our citizens either eat North Korean rice, or no rice at all!'

[spooky lynx 73]

also you missed the point where CSR was occupied and any resistance was crushed with death sentence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II#Numbers

I suggest you note those 350k forced to work in Germany under occupation

Poland was occupied too. And had some potent military industry before outbrake of WW2. But despite this there was no such large amount of weapons produced in Poland during German occupation as it was in CSR. Moreover I doubt if there was any. People preferred not to collaborate with Germans unlike Czechs.

also it was Soviet Russia/USSR who was aggressor, multiple times in 20th century against the states of Poles , Czechs , Ukrainians, Baltic and Finland etc.

so please stop posting here propaganda (it's quite outrageous considering my family suffered losses to SS (so called 1st resistance fighters))

Oh I'm sorry. Seems that only russophobic propaganda posting is welcomed here.

---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:30 ----------

That would be politically and strategically extremely stupid idea for various reasons. Suicidal.

But real. I saw such suicidal attempt by myself in 2008. One small but proud Caucasian leader was promised that he will get any support he wants so he decided to move his army and solve old problem with brutal way. But... he was cheated and left alone with angry northern neighbour with nukes. Seeing that now all the Baltic and most of East European govts are nothing but Uncle Sam's poodles I won't be surprised that in some days they will be used the same way as Mishiko Saakashvili.

[Sub-Human 10]

Oh I'm sorry. Seems that only russophobic propaganda posting is welcomed here.

Pointing out Russian invasions is russophobic propaganda? I thought it's called history... Putin and Duma politicians are not very fond of it lately...

[astral4eg 10]

continue..

To give you an idea at early 1990s, Coke ( Coca Cola ) was sold in Moscow inside plastic bags instead of cans... And animals were sold as meat in the streets.

yes, in the 90's was a "complete ass" :)

Even if Russia was becoming another authoritarian regime. They thought that Putin was only a danger to his own population (after all Russia has been ruled by tyrannic leaders during almost all the modern times). These World powers did not do much when Russia bullied and invaded Georgia. Everyone thought that it was only a Putin's little craziness, nothing to worry ( like with Hitler in Czechoslovakia ).

Once again explain, the first Georgia attacked South Ossetia, Russia just "simply" defended that South Ossetia.

In many areas after the collapse of the Soviet Union flared up again conflicts on ethnic grounds, although earlier the Soviet Union kept under control and the people there live peacefully.

During all these years most of the European main-stream press has been saying that Putin and a stronger Russia could be a good commercial partner, a country that has to be respected. They even thought that a powerful Russia would benefit Europe and balance the US power. Heck there were even plans to give free Schengen visas to Russian citizens.

What happened that prevented it? because Russia defended South Ossetia?

[Dwarden 1124]

Poland was occupied too. And had some potent military industry before outbrake of WW2.

But despite this there was no such large amount of weapons produced in Poland during German occupation as it was in CSR.

Moreover I doubt if there was any. People preferred not to collaborate with Germans unlike Czechs.

Oh I'm sorry. Seems that only russophobic propaganda posting is welcomed here

I suggest you educate yourself

CSR was after Germany, UK, France and USSR most industrial country in area prior the war

CSR spent also huge amount of the budget on modernizing army in wake of external threats (Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Hungary and Poland were all possible due to border disputes)

only Germany, Italy, Japan, USSR spent more on modernizing military in 1936, 1937 and 1938 than CSR

of course when all the 'powers' betrayed the CSR

(Soviet Union too, technically excusing themselves that w/o France helping they would not help either, hell Romania had bigger balls and said they will help no matter who will be aggressor)

due the occupation, Germany over span of 1 year doubled theirs industry capacity due to confiscated metallurgy, chemical and precision industry in CSR

it also heavily boosted theirs logistics abilities (all the trucks) and even light/medium CSR tanks were useful in conquering Poland and Benelux and part of France (e.g. Rommel's tank divisions)

you totally dishonor around 340 thousands CSR citizens which were killed (slaughtered) directly by nazi occupants and another 160k indirectly (post war due to trauma, illnesses or wounds)

so while it's only 5% of the population, at minimum 2% of that were the most brave and educated (country moral elite - not by means of wealth)

around 40% of the citizens directly suffered from the occupants due to family ties with the terror victims or forced labor

also, tell me, if CSR were so 'pacifist' why the highest ranked Nazi Germany official was killed (outside direct conflict) in Prague by CSR resistance fighters ?

so summarized, your propaganda isn't welcomed here - if you try to rewrite history of my own family and people in nation ...!

and contrary to you, I can go and ask my alive grand-parents who both remember WW2 and can you tell stories about "friendly" occupants (both West and East ones)

Edited March 9, 2015 by Dwarden

[Tonci87 163]

ok, summarize killed: Stalin - 7-8, Hitler - 8-10

some Russians see him as hero because he got a backward agrarian country, destroyed after a severe civil war, and after it became a powerful industrial superpower with nuclear weapons.

but back to the topic, what can you say about this? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lng1FFJesYU

Did you watch the whole interview or only read the headline? Nowhere does he say that toppling Hitler was a bad thing. What he says is that Europe well remembers the Soviet advance through Ukraine to germany (and everything that came in the wake of it) and that nobody has the right to rewrite history as it pleases him (referring to Putin trying to rewrite the history of the USSR)

Here is the full interview if you want to watch it

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ukraine-jazenjuk-101.html

[orcinus 121]

Lend Lease - yes, Britain and the USA for the gold selling raw materials and equipment to the Soviet Union

Typically inaccurate post.

Lend-Lease was an American program, not British at all.

Britain bought ships, aircraft, other war materiel and food under that program (which damn near bankrupted the UK; paying USD 21bn off took from 1950 to 2006; amongst other matter, also UK had to give the US all rights to and royalties on innovations such as radar, antibiotics, jet aircraft and nuclear research).

All UK military aid to the USSR was free. Have you never heard of the Anglo-Soviet Military Supplies Agreement (June 1942 )? - or has Putin edited that also out of his per-version of history?

Look up "Arctic convoys", how many there were, what it cost in terms of lives, ships, and cargo lost to German attacks to get those vital supplies to the USSR via Murmansk and Archangelsk.

Look up how, immediately after Hitler invaded the USSR, the UK sent aircraft, pilots and ground crew to Murmansk to defend it and to train Soviet pilots and ground crew.

Britain gave the USSR thousands of tanks, thousands of aircraft, destroyers, minesweepers, subs, and a battleship amongst other naval assets. Huge amounts of ammunition.

All this at a time when it was fighting Hitler in Africa and the Japanese in Asia, and dealing with relentless air and sea attacks by the Nazis.

So take your Putinesque propaganda and retrofit it rectumwards.

[spooky lynx 73]

Pointing out Russian invasions is russophobic propaganda? I thought it's called history... Putin and Duma politicians are not very fond of it lately...

Pointing out Russian invasions only and showing other countries as poor innocent lambs is russophobic propaganda, yes.