Russia General

[vilas 473]

meanwhile in Putin's Russia:

as it was told few times before - they want to rewrite and edit history

another step in Putin's propaganda about history of WW2:

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Rosyjska-gazeta-AK-zabijala-czerwonoarmistow,wid,17295203,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=1146ad

instead of saying how Soviet army was murdering non-communist Polish resistance fighting with Nazis, Russian newspaper wrote about how Polish resistans "was murdering Soviet soldiers"

so they twist history (as "Polish death camps issue" which i hope will soon be persecuted in law as crime)

now Russia say that our anti-Hitler resistance was killing Soviets, to wash from history that it were soviets (especially NKVD, which treated communism like something more important than fight with Hitler) who was murdering everyone who was anti-communist

after WW2 lots of Polish patriots were murdered by commies , cause commies wanted to kill any national-patriotic-tradition movements and make multiculti communist homo-sovieticus , todays Russia is most nationalistic state in Europe, so they again start to rewrite history to play "freedom bringers" and everyone around "fascists, nazis" ,

Edited February 27, 2015 by vilas

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, rewriting history is one of the most concerning facts in Putin's Russia. Not a good move to say the least. A modern country must face his history with honesty, and we know it isn't easy. My own country is hardly accepting now what has happened during what is now called "the Algerian war", and the extensive use of torture at that time. But the fact you don't like what happened in history doesn't mean you must rewrite it.

[Rydygier 1302]

From what I observed so far, as for their reactions (intesity of them), when they're hearing something not fit to their vision of history, glorified/whitewashed USSR's participation in WW2 is some kind of absolute corner stone of their current national pride/patriotism, while their national pride seems to be a corner stone of their overall worldview. Amazing, how difficult for real mutual understanding on the most basic level with such different culture/civilization. The more now, with Putin's extremely cynical approach to the truth.

[Rydygier 1302]

Response of President of the Institute of National Remembrance on this disgusting propaganda:

Poland in September 1939, took an unequal battle with collaborating with each other the two totalitarian powers - Third Reich and the Soviet Union. Despite the defeat in the war of defense, the Poles continued to struggle both in exile and the country. Rapidly evolving structure of the Polish conspiracy led to the Polish Underground State, a unique phenomenon in the history of Nazi-occupied Europe. His military force was the Union of Armed Struggle, subsequently renamed Home Army.

The Soviet Union in 1939-1941 occupied half of the Polish territory. Soviet occupation resulted in the cruel repression - four great deportation of civilians, deportation to concentration camps, mass arrests and executions. The symbol of these activities is Katyn massacre, in the course of which the spring of 1940. On Stalin's orders shot in the back of the head were murdered 22,000 Polish officers, police officers and other members of the elite.

Despite these enormous suffering and breaking the Soviet authorities diplomatic relations with the government of the Republic of Poland, commander of the Home Army ordered the execution of the Operation "Storm". In its course, as approaches the front line concentrated AK (Home Army) troops take an open fight with the Germans, and cooperated with the invading Red Army units. In response, Polish soldiers were disarmed, deported to labor camps, and in many cases murdered. This was even in those cases where previously there was a common struggle of Home Army soldiers and Soviet troops, for example, during liberation of Vilnius and Lviv. The same fate also met revealing themselves representatives of Polish government.

In this case,Home Army soldiers had no choice but return to conspiracy and take the fight in self-defense. To limit the damage, in January 1945. Gen. Leopold Okulicki "Bear" gave the order to dissolve the Home Army. A few weeks later, the leaders of the three powers Yalta decisions made Polish fate. Despite the huge injustice of the solutions, including the loss of half of the territory, the leaders of the Polish Underground declared willingness to talk on the establishment of the Provisional government of National Unity. in response, sixteen of them, including the commander of the Home Army. Okulicki, Deputy Prime Minister Jan Stanisław Jankowski and underground parliament chairman Kazimierz Pużak were kidnapped by the NKVD and convicted in a show trial in Moscow.

In the coming months, even after the end of war operations repression of the representatives of the Polish underground was lasting. The largest of the crime committed is Augustov Comb-out in July 1945 in the course of which kidnapped and killed about 600 people, both underground soldiers and civilians. Their burial place to this day remains unknown. The Russian side for years refused to release the documents of the case.

Instead, today published the documents aimed to make repugnant memory of the heroes of the Polish Underground. These activities are modeled on the worst period of Communist propaganda. They are also another example of that modern Russia is increasingly refers to the legacy of Stalin's Soviet Union. Instead of striving for reconciliation based on truth and memory, Russia chooses the path of confrontation, based on contempt for the victims of Soviet crimes.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Rydygier

[Sub-Human 10]

BORIS NEMTSOV KILLED! ANOTHER POLITICAL ASSASSINATION BY PUTIN!!!!

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150228/1018865497.html

[sudayev 27]

Yet another, very strange death. Obvious execution, barely 200 meters aways from the Kremlin...

For those who don't want to wish to read propagandist website Sputniknews (Putin's sad, will investigate of course, maybe will pass condolnces by himself...)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0LV2LA20150227

More...

Boris Nemtsov fears for his own life. Brief talk from two weeks ago

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fiton.tv%2Fbyvshij-sssr%2Fitem%2F2291-boris-nemtsov-boyus-togo-chto-putin-menya-ubet&sandbox=1

Garri Kasparov

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/571431744546742272

Devastated to hear of the brutal murder of my long-time opposition colleague Boris Nemtsov. Shot 4 times, once for each child he leaves.

Tragic. Nemtsov was father of four. Edited February 27, 2015 by Sudayev

[maturin 12]

The regime bears full responsibility for the results of its extremist propaganda and hate-speech. After all, how can the government earnestly tell its 'patriots' that it is a crime to strike down a national traitor, a fifth columnist and friend of fascists? Someone carried Putin's ideology to its logical conclusion.

Most of the state-owned media and most government spokespeople could be prosecuted under Russia's own extremism laws. But that's nothing new. When has Russian state power been anything but a criminal enterprise in the past century?

[sudayev 27]

What a coincidence...This happened almost one day before the opposition march "Vesna" (Russian for "spring"), which is to protest against the economic crisis in Russia and the war in Ukraine.

[mistyronin 1181]

Putin's vision of Russian democracy...

[astral4eg 10]

I'm a Russian Occupant [ENG Subtitles] :cool:

Edited February 28, 2015 by astral4eg

[mistyronin 1181]

I'm a Russian Occupant [ENG Subtitles] :cool:

The worst is that some low educated chaps can believe all that cheap propaganda from your video...

Check the NS-DAP propaganda from the 20's... Their slogans and speeches were really similar to the ones in your video.

[jakerod 254]

I'm a Russian Occupant [ENG Subtitles] :cool:

I love peace but the first half of this video was about how I invaded all my neighbors. I also fail to mention about how many of my own citizens I had executed. Why do you want "freedom" and "democracy" when you can have execution? There's got to be a good "In Soviet Russia..." joke in there somewhere.

[guyfawkestom 60]

"In Soviet Russia..." joke

Sadly, the joke might be that being in the actual soviet Russia would be an improvement for democracy and freedom comparing to the Putin presidency.

[Rydygier 1302]

I'm a Russian Occupant [ENG Subtitles]

Шутники. Well done modern propaganda. Smoothly into the willing head... Damn, really, be wiser, people. Think on your own. Learn deeper. Don't hide behind smoothly manipulating teasers. Seek for the truth for yourself, don't allow the others decide, what you believe. Don't be naive. Others pay with their lifes for your naivety.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Rydygier

[Tonci87 163]

I'm a Russian Occupant [ENG Subtitles] :cool:

Such a blatant piece of cheap propaganda.

Two simple questions that should tell you how much BS that video is.

Why did everybody you occupied (let´s not even talk about repeated invasions, murders etc.) ask you to leave?

Why do the people in those countries still hate Russia to this very day?

[spooky lynx 73]

Why did everybody you occupied (let´s not even talk about repeated invasions, murders etc.) ask you to leave?

Why do the people in those countries still hate Russia to this very day?

-blatant nationalist propaganda; the result is that all the countries infected with it failed to develop well functioning economy and society and all the formers fighters for freedom that shouted 'bag-trainstation-Russia' rush to former occupants and ask for any work possible.

-it's always easier to blame some other outside for all the troubles. Sure thing, it is the Russia who sold and destroyed almost all industry, steals all the money from the budget etc. It's very hard to admit that nationalism and populistic slogans alone are not enough to build the prosperous country. That's why many people who weak enough to admit own faults blame damned Russia for all the bad happening in their life. Just like German officials blamed Jews and earlier Europeans blamed witches and Satan.

[Tonci87 163]

-blatant nationalist propaganda; the result is that all the countries infected with it failed to develop well functioning economy and society and all the formers fighters for freedom that shouted 'bag-trainstation-Russia' rush to former occupants and ask for any work possible.

-it's always easier to blame some other outside for all the troubles. Sure thing, it is the Russia who sold and destroyed almost all industry, steals all the money from the budget etc. It's very hard to admit that nationalism and populistic slogans alone are not enough to build the prosperous country. That's why many people who weak enough to admit own faults blame damned Russia for all the bad happening in their life. Just like German officials blamed Jews and earlier Europeans blamed witches and Satan.

Oh my god FPDR

Just one example: What did the Soviets do in the GDR after WW2?

They packed up all industry, all heavy machinery, demontaged the factories and shiped everything to Russia.

The conquered lands were always there to be exploited that is consistent in the whole history of Russian occupation. Those nice industries that are referenced in that video, where do you think the gains from those industries went. Tip: it starts with R and ends with ussia.

[spooky lynx 73]

Oh my god FPDR

Just one example: What did the Soviets do in the GDR after WW2?

A small part of what GDR predecessor did in Soviet Union. Not even eye for an eye. Oh and you seriously overestimate the amount of machinery shipped to USSR. Much more were later bought in GDR, that's true. Even today many industry (and even medical) facilities use the hardware of GDR origin. I shoudn't say it's good but that hardware is still damn good.

[batto 17]

-blatant nationalist propaganda; the result is that all the countries infected with it failed to develop well functioning economy and society and all the formers fighters for freedom that shouted 'bag-trainstation-Russia' rush to former occupants and ask for any work possible.

-it's always easier to blame some other outside for all the troubles. Sure thing, it is the Russia who sold and destroyed almost all industry, steals all the money from the budget etc. It's very hard to admit that nationalism and populistic slogans alone are not enough to build the prosperous country. That's why many people who weak enough to admit own faults blame damned Russia for all the bad happening in their life.

I'm seriously not sure whether you're trolling :j:. I could go to great lengths to show how silly and wrong this quote is but that'd be waste of time. Yes, forced commie regimes in european countries destroyed some parts industry, slowed or denied other parts of industry and research, favored only exports to Soviet Union, kept population in fear of persecution for not loving the crappy ideology. If those countries had free will they'd never choose commies (or certainly not for 2nd term) and I'm pretty sure they'd be much more prosperous! I hate commies, my father hate commies and his father hated commies, my teachers who lived under commies and talked about it said they hated commies. I seriously hope you're just trolling. The amount of your denial is reaching critical levels.

Edited February 28, 2015 by batto

[Tonci87 163]

A small part of what GDR predecessor did in Soviet Union. Not even eye for an eye. Oh and you seriously overestimate the amount of machinery shipped to USSR. Much more were later bought in GDR, that's true. Even today many industry (and even medical) facilities use the hardware of GDR origin. I shoudn't say it's good but that hardware is still damn good.

For your own sake, please speak with some people who have lived under soviet rule during that time. Ask them how great that was.

[vilas 473]

it is not that simple , more complicated thing:

communism and marxism as ideas were not only about economy but also about lifestyle, marxism is ... politicall correctness and multiculti, not only lack of private property,

ideas pushed by EU left wings are closer to USSR ideas than you may think

people fighting and hating communism hated not because of social care and lack of private owned industry, but because of this forced mixing nations, killing tradition, killing patriotism, killing religion AND in most part, because it was pushing USSR as main leader and main head of all, example: when Polish engineers wanted to make good car - because of communist regime - project was canceled cause party secretary said "we cannot make cars better than USSR" and we were forced (yes forced) to learn Russian language at school,

but communism bult industry, there was industry, problem is what happened after 1989:

almost all comie intel secret agents became ... directors in industry

all industry was under rule of commie agents from intels of our countries and soon all industry was sold for penny (corruption, bribes) and destroyed

so yes indeed he doesn't miss truth when he say about industry,

but he miss ROOT and REASON for destruction of industry

it was destructed not because of free market (we are still far from it , in EU all is regulated, farmers cannot produce as much they want cause EU tells how much cows you can have, do not tell me it is not true - my girlfriend is farmer and my rip uncle had friend who was fisherman) , but because of corrupted (by bribes from western corporations) ex-commie ex-intel officers who after 1989 were "business leaders" and first were obeying USSR than they wanted to make our countries colonies for western corporations , because they got bribes,

so indeed before 1989 we had bigger production and no emigration (in case of Poland we have over 6% of population that emigrated, we had over 20% unemployment) but destruction of industry is NOT because "Russia is so good and west and USA are so bad" but because comies HAVENT GIVE UP power in early 90s,

commies FORMALLY left power, formally, but in real they moved from political and military power, to business and law (courts ) and in early 90s they sold as much they could from national goods, to get bribes and have huuuuuuge fortunes on bank accounts

i could observe it cause my family worked in military before 1989, they were in several military technical positions such as engineer, translator, mechanic etc.

and all politicall officers (major, colonel) they knew - all of those officers suddenly in 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995 became "director in bank, director in company, director of department in insurance company, director of local administration, director in ministry, director in television" etc. etc. etc.

and soon all those directors hired their kids on position and left to be retired, now majority of managers are sons of commies,

nepotism on veeeeeeeeeeery huge scale not present in the Scandinavian countries , here is most common, in the west nepotism is something bad, here in 90s nepotism was ONLY reason to set position on level like head of, director etc.

so he finds a point which is true, but not see larger scale, larger scale is other - it was soviet-connected intel and secret police officers who destroyed our countries, not west, another smelly stuff is that many of pre-1989 opposition leaders were found later to be... communist agents, they were commie agents that "kept opposition moving in proper direction", because in patriotic society one shall not sell industry for penny, so they came from communist ideas to sell it for international corporations, cause for them nation means nothing, but bank account does,

western corporations gave bribes and bought for penny our industry to destroy competition - it is true

but SOMEONE SOLD IT , it was not sold by Martians,

but in case of Russians it was even worse after 1991 , because under Yeltsin there was not only industry that stopped, but also mafia and huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge crime rate,

it was normal in Russia in 90s that you walk street and few gangsters with AK rob you and shoot someone

they lived in 90s like in "wild west" movies, they had crimes on street on level equal to third world and for them Putin brought order, they can walk street free,

maybe people in the west do not know, but mafia (made of ex Spetznaz officers and Intel officers mostly) was so strong that they even robbed... car maufactory

i read 20 years ago about Lada factory when few guys with AKMS in hands just walk into company and took profit from company and run away - such was Russia under Yeltsin, people were not getting retired pensions, army was not getting salary so they were selling weapons to criminals to buy anything to eat

it is not fantasy, such Russia was in 90s, in 90s people from Russia were emigrating to work cause they had no jobs and everyone who build anything in Poland hired Russians, Belerusians, Ukrainians as cheap workers on construction (building workers) like now Brits hire Poles to build buildings in UK ;( so for sure their pride suffered a lot when you must go abroad to look for job instead of work , so that why they so much love Putin, he gave them pride and pension, they do not emigrate to work, but Ukrainians, Belarusians emigrate to work on their construction sites,

and Putin use this pride to rewrite their history and change their knowledge about world around , while we in our countries start erasing history lessons from schools :/

Edited February 28, 2015 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

I'm seriously not sure whether you're trolling :j:. I could go to great lengths to show how silly and wrong this quote is but that'd be waste of time. Yes, forced commie regimes in european countries destroyed some parts industry, slowed or denied other parts of industry and research, favored only exports to Soviet Union, kept population in fear of persecution for not loving the crappy ideology. If those countries had free will they'd never choose commies (or certainly not for 2nd term) and I'm pretty sure they'd be much more prosperous! I hate commies, my father hate commies and his father hated commies, my teachers who lived under commies and talked about it said they hated commies. I seriously hope you're just trolling. The amount of your denial is reaching critical levels.

So you are trying to tell me, whose relatives had to flee from Baku due to crazy Azeri nationalism spark in one case and suffered all the sides of war in Abhasia on other case, that there was no nationalist propaganda there?

And speaking about commie regimes in Eastern Europe... Well, don't you remember their predecessors being quite happy in role of occupants on pair with Wehrmacht or being good and reliable source of weapons to Reich?

Edited February 28, 2015 by Spooky Lynx

[vilas 473]

it would be faaaaaaaaaar from logic if people who were occupied and rulled by USSR suddenly not wanted their nation to rule

it is normal and natural, that people - when get rid of FOREIGN occupant - want to build their country their own way

if you expect post-soviet nations to love soviet/Russia after 1991 than you do not understand basic rule of logic - conseqence

the same is present in post soviet countries when Russian moan about "Russian rights" there, while those nations finally after centuries of Russian occupation and Russification, finally want to use THEIR language as state language

this is natural that SOVEIRGN independent states use THEIR language and tradition etc. so it is not nationalism - it is normal, that when i live in X, i speak X, and X take positions in government not former occupant

if there was no Russian Empire and USSR occupation of those nations and no forced Russification - those nations would not have anything against Russia,

you think history started in 1990 or June 1941 ?

nope, history started thousands years ago

first Russian tsars, than Stalin ware forcing others to be under Russian shoe, now when those nations finally get their independence you cry about nationalism ? while Russia itself is biggest nationalistic state in Europe nowadays ?

as noone loved Germans in 1940s in central Europe, than noone love Russians in post soviet states - but Germans were doing after WW2 all to be loved again and now noone hates them cause they done all that is possible to be peacefull, opposite to Russians, who react by wars (state, Putin) on former colonies, when colonies get freedom, Putin seeks revenge on them ,

it is like now French or Portuguese leaders would send bombers to bomb African countries because someone there remembers Guerra Ultramar

first rule to be liked by others is - not harm them and feel sory if your father harmed them

Germans understand it, Russians not

example :

Poland was occupying part of Ukraine in history (XVII century, a little 1919-1939) , than Ukrains made few crimes against Poles in WW2, now Poles help them and Ukrainians like us and we like Ukrainians

opposite example:

Russia were occupying other countries, those people get freedom, they want to use their language and Russia reacts with violence against them, because in their country they wanted to use their national language as state language,

Well, don't you remember their predecessors being quite happy in role of occupants on pair with Wehrmacht or being good and reliable source of weapons to Reich?

cause for Latvians, Lithuanians and others Germany in 30s seemed to be better than Stalin terror they knew, cause they didn't know who Hitler is,but they very well knew Lenin, Dzherzynsky, Stalin (USSR was taken as Russia although leaders of commies were multiculti from many nations, Russians, Jews, Poles, Georgians etc. but Soviet Union was taken as Russia although it was not clearly Russia)

commie crimes were as big as nazi crimes as Japanese crimes in 30s, 40s, but those nations were occupied also by Tsars (Russian Empire) which was clearly Russian, not like comintern commie party

Edited February 28, 2015 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

Forced Russification? Where? Care to prove with reliable source?

So bilingual school studying, road signs, official papers, quotas for nations in main univercities (yes, there was a mandatory number of non-Russian students there so sometimes they became students no matter of their real knowledge), lots of cultural national events, giant amount of money spent on building every kind of infrastructure in national republics (that's why average small city somewhere in Georgia or Uzbekistan looked much better than the same in RSFSR) - is it occupation and forced Russification? Vilas, I don't know what did you read or see but I lived in that country and seen by myself what were national relations.

[vilas 473]

o my god... so you do not know we were forced to learn Russian language in schools ? although Poland was not in USSR but you could not refuse to learn Russian language in school , it was mandatory, why do you think i know Russian ? because it was mandatory in school and i am from socialist era born (1978)

you do not know that our churches were turned into orthodox ones in XIX century ?

you do not know that Poland was divided in ca 1780 and was occupied by Russian Empire (and Germany) till 1918 ?

people were forced to use Russian language, churches were rebuild from Catholic to Orthodox , even in 1905 when Russian Tsar made biggest Orthodox temple in my city ? noone here was Orthodox except Russian army officers occupying us, so they ruined our buildings and set Orthodox temples

this is how my town looked in 1915, and this was first thing we deleted in 1920s

Edited February 28, 2015 by vilas