Ukraine General

[vilas 477]

Best example would be Greece,.

it is about banks, look , Greece existed for 3000 years, they joined EU, German banks entered and... Greece almost bankrupted,

the same with Poland, some German businessmen (mostly, but of course Brits or French too) bribed our politicians, our politicians sold for penny all what was national (remember about communism and that pre 1989 there was hardly private property in industry) and... all belongs to German corporations and work conditions in German Lidl/Tesco/others vs Polish Lidl/Tesco/others are opposite cause here worker is treated like slave and boss doesn't speak Polish

another example are deals with Russia breaking NATO and EU keeping together as 1 body (economical , militar) but it's offtop rather belonging to EU politics topic (Schroeder, Merkel behaviour)

in Italy really comparing safety from point of view of toursit in Sicily and in other regions differ - where mafia rules, tourist can walk easily, noone try to rob him or pickpocket him, only in sicily ruled by mafia i felt safe (and our tourguide told that here in Sicily we can have backpack on our back not on front) ,

the same is in Rio, in Favela where mafia set rules, for rape or theft there is one punishment, the same i remember from my childhood cause i ve grown in "Polish Brooklyn" and also Praga was most safe for Praga-natives (they were robbing "aborad"), noone touched you, if anyone "from other part of city" would try, he would end with knife in stomach, because "hommie is important", 20 years ago if anyone would try to touch me on city i would say "i am from praga" and he would return saying sorry

you can compare to clan/tribe structure

Edited August 29, 2014 by vilas

[beastcat 14]

it is about banks, look , Greece existed for 3000 years, they joined EU, German banks entered and... Greece almost bankrupted,

the same with Poland, some German businessmen (mostly, but of course Brits or French too) bribed our politicians, our politicians sold for penny all what was national (remember about communism and that pre 1989 there was hardly private property in industry) and... all belongs to German corporations and work conditions in German Lidl/Tesco/others vs Polish Lidl/Tesco/others are opposite cause here worker is treated like slave and boss doesn't speak Polish

another example are deals with Russia breaking NATO and EU keeping together as 1 body (economical , militar) but it's offtop rather belonging to EU politics topic (Schroeder, Merkel behaviour)

Well, technically Greece was never supposed to get into the EU, but they lied about their finances. It doesn't really have anything to do with german banks, but with Greece lying to get into the EU. There are certain conditions that are specifically designed, so the country that joins the eu doesn't get a financial crash. If Greece was honest they would have never gotten into the EU and if they would really fit the conditions they would have not had a financial crisis. In the end its not only Greece that has to suffer, but also the other EU countries that have to pay for Greece's incompetence.

Here is a dude with a strange accent:

[Pyronick 21]

it is about banks, look , Greece existed for 3000 years, they joined EU, German banks entered and... Greece almost bankrupted,

Greece was corrupted because of the power and virtual autonomy of the armed forces and police forces. Furthermore, they were stuck in the credit default swap loop, which gave them the opportunity to join the eurozone while still being in debt.

(Schroeder, Merkel behaviour)

Schröder and his Ostpolitik was basically put letting NATO's guard down. He was also responsible of what now are the Four Common Spaces between the EU and Russia. Merkel is just continuing his Ostpolitik and that needs to be stopped asap!

[negah 26]

Greece was corrupted because of the power and virtual autonomy of the armed forces and police forces. Furthermore, they were stuck in the credit default swap loop, which gave them the opportunity to join the eurozone while still being in debt.

Schröder and his Ostpolitik was basically put letting NATO's guard down. He was also responsible of what now are the Four Common Spaces between the EU and Russia. Merkel is just continuing his Ostpolitik and that needs to be stopped asap!

In fact Merkel has a "stay friends with all sides"-politik, i.e. be freinds with both Russia and USA all the while trying to keep as many countries in the EU as possible (Great Britain in this case).

I dont see why such policy should be stopped as we are clearly profiting from it. Of course other EU countries may see it differently.

[maddogx 13]

To get this thread back on topic: Russians start asking: are we at war? (The Guardian)

[Tonci87 163]

To get this thread back on topic: Russians start asking: are we at war? (The Guardian)

This plain and simply sucks for the involved Soldiers and their families. No recognition, no medals, no higher pay, no special treatment, no veteran or injury pensions, no life insurrance that gets paid to the families, etc.

[vilas 477]

press wrote, that Putin in speech (last news) compared Ukrainian Army to Nazi army and said "we had to protect rights of Russians in Crimea to self-decide" and now they also help Russian minority (30%) rights to "decide" (about rights of 70%)

[beastcat 14]

[maddogx 13]

Ukraine to seek Nato membership (BBC News) Edited August 29, 2014 by MadDogX
spelling

[vilas 477]

another quote from press news, on speech now Putin is told to said that it is west that escalate war and not allow for peace in Ukraine,

hired trolls on PL forums active, all the time "Great Putin is helping humankind to get rid of Bandera fascists"

[oxmox 73]

Ukraine to seek Nato membership (BBC News)

Well, this is not surprising since it was an aim anywy....but it will lead to issues in the future with NATO on russia boarders.

Edited August 29, 2014 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

issues ? every independent country has right to decide about it's way , imperialism should have no place,

minority of one region of country cannot decide about whole country will

[ProfTournesol 956]

Russia does everything it can to speed up the process, i must say.

[oxmox 73]

issues ? every independent country has right to decide about it's way , imperialism should have no place,

minority of one region of country cannot decide about whole country will

If you think that the west has no place for geopolitics, dominance and influence you are living with an illusion.

[surpher 1]

(Bloomberg) U.K. Wants EU to Block Russia From SWIFT Banking Network

“Blocking Russia from the SWIFT system would be a very serious escalation in sanctions against Russia and would most certainly result in equally tough retaliatory actions by Russia,†said Chris Weafer, a senior partner at Moscow-based consulting firm Macro Advisory. “An exclusion from SWIFT would not block major trade deals but would cause problems in cross-border banking and that would disrupt trade flows.â€

[beastcat 14]

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, take for example the current fights in the eastern ukrainian. Are there any image comparisons how to identify the different types of "factions". I tried using google images search, but there is everything mixed together also normal military with special units and so on..quiete confusing.

I'll correct myself, few UA vehicles were painted with some kind of pixelated camo -

But there are few of them with such paint scheme - mainly some airborne armor such as BMDs and BTRDs and some new types of UA-developed BTRs such as BTR-3.

Other types are similar to Russian ones (this scheme was developed even in late 80's in USSR) -

- UA one

http://bastion-opk.ru/kartinki/BMD-2M_TM-2012_04.JPG (427 kB) - Russian one

Now you can identify UA vehicles with two white stripes painted like cross.

By the way, since you are form russia. How are the opinions from people on the street, aquaintances and so on about the current situation in the Ukraine ? Do you feel anything about the sanctions ?

Sanctions? No. Nothing changed in my life and life of most of people, maybe some hipsters that preferred only EU-made food were affected. So most of locals just laugh when the talk goes about sanctions. Much of banned things can be replaced, it's a matter of time. Opinions? They are different. Some don't give a poo about Ukraine, some (like me) have relatives living in battle area and are afraid of them being killed by UA artillery shells or shot by some far-right armed groups. Some even are pro-UA govt.

Unless you warn the Pro-Russians. It's the safest way to cross the Ukrainian side, and also to create chaos there. One of the most known the Operation Greif.

That would make sense in the Russian case, knowing that the Ukrainians almost finished the pro-Russians, it's a way to give them a window of time.

In the same way as the troops movements in the border, making part of the Ukrainian Army on stand by on a possible Russian invasion.

It's quite uneasy task to inform all the groups and coordinate them. And don't forget about Murphy's law: if some group may be misinformed, it will be. And hit such tank with ATGM or PRGs immediately.

Ukrainians almost finished pro-Russians? But who had been surrounded Mariupol and demolished 30th and other brigades then?:) According to my sources advance of separatists is going for a couple of days already and it's quite successful. Yesterday they captured first four Msta SPGs with ammo and HQ vehicle.

BTW nice pic of UA Tochka-U missile remains:

http://voicesevas.ru/img/d1016fd8a8751508f17519a110bb972c.PNG (1156 kB)

[jakerod 254]

Ukrainians almost finished pro-Russians? But who had been surrounded Mariupol and demolished 30th and other brigades then?

The Russian Army

[mistyronin 1181]

It's quite uneasy task to inform all the groups and coordinate them. And don't forget about Murphy's law: if some group may be misinformed, it will be.

That kind of actions are always risky, but it seems that at the moment of the fight ( again according to the UK delegation ) the vehicles had a pro-Russian flag besides the Ukrainian paintings. I recognise that it would be a bold movement, but the situation was starting to get desperate for the pro-Russians.

Ukrainians almost finished pro-Russians? But who had been surrounded Mariupol and demolished 30th and other brigades then?:)

That's why I was talking in past tense and about the pro-Russians :)

I don't know for sure who has surrounded Mariupol, but there are a lot of indications that are Russian regular soldiers without markings ( with T72, etc ).

Besides how could the pro-Russians who were under siege and losing ground all the time, suddenly appear at more than 50 km South just next to the Russian border launching a big armored offensive with Russian Army tanks.

[ProfTournesol 956]

The Russian Army

Indeed. "Pro Russians" or "self defense force" doesn't mean anything anymore. They are Russian invasion force now.

[spooky lynx 73]

That's why I was talking in past tense and about the pro-Russians :)

I don't know for sure who has surrounded Mariupol, but there are a lot of indications that are Russian regular soldiers without markings ( with T72, etc ).

Besides how could the pro-Russians who were under siege and losing ground all the time, suddenly appear at more than 50 km South just next to the Russian border launching a big armored offensive with Russian Army tanks.

Mariupol is surrounded by a number of recon groups, some of which seized Novoazovsk. This became possible because of few UA detachments left for guarding that cities. Despite this separatists have not enough forces to seize Mariupol yet. Main forces were busy in the battles near Donetsk and Lugansk. So raid of small groups was successful. Also this was possible because of huge losses taken by UA troops at the main bettle places - a number of brigades had been encircled and demolished by artillery and tank fire together with infantry attacks. So separatists could manage to send some free forces to UA rearward after a number of victories over UA troops near Donetsk and Lugansk. They re-captured Saur-mogila and a number of towns.

[ProfTournesol 956]

A little cartoon that sums that up :

[mistyronin 1181]

Both Finland and Sweden have move assets to defensive positions after the alleged Russian invasion of South-East Ukraine and the Russian Airforce incursions in Finnish air space:

( Finnish Public Yle, in English ) Finnish Air Force moves hardware to Helsinki-Vantaa airport; public reports Hornet sightings

Finnish Defence Force officials said their enhanced readiness was based on a recent spate of airspace incursions by Russian aircraft. Since last Saturday there have been three such incidents in Finnish skies.

( Svenska Dagbladet, in Swedish ) Reinfeldt warns of 'escalating Russian aggression "

Sweden has raised its military readiness and advanced Gripen aircraft to Gotland. The rise of Sweden's military preparedness should be viewed against the background of Russian aircraft violated Finnish airspace.

[Tonci87 163]

Why do I have the terrible feeling that we are back in 1938?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Why do I have the terrible feeling that we are back in 1938?

I don't know. The matter is quite complex. I'd say as long as NATO doesn't step in, Russian people won't support a long war against a former friendly country which would be killing too many of its sons. Ukraine is a big country, with 45 millions people, a war would be devastating for both country.