Ukraine General

[vilas 473]

Tonci, check previous page, i found VDV variants of MTLB

What is that thing anyway.

VSS Vintorez

thing he hold in hand is helmet with burned part of camo cover

[mistyronin 1181]

I think no one doubts that the Russian VDV has been in Ukraine, Putin himself recognized it; although he commented that was by mistake.

You know the typical mistake that one of the best units in the Russian Fed. Army can do... Go 30 kms inside their neighbors territory.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Tonci, check previous page, i found VDV variants of MTLB

VSS Vintorez

thing he hold in hand is helmet with burned part of camo cover

What about SNAR-10? It also has a turret and since this thing doesn't have much of it's, it could also be that.

[Tonci87 163]

Tonci, check previous page, i found VDV variants of MTLB

VSS Vintorez

thing he hold in hand is helmet with burned part of camo cover

Could be it. Ukraine does have many MTLBs, but I think they are all from Soviet origin. That model seems to be post Soviet.

That thing is a burned VSS Vintorez, or AS VAL, hard to distinguish

pick one

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/VSS_Vintorez_and_AS_Val_Conscript_day_in_Moscow_2011_01.jpg

[beastcat 14]

One of the comments under the article, describing "the russian point of view":

The soldiers accidentally crossed the border.

This guy had a heart attack:

This guy had stroke:

Nothing unusual, things happen, move along please.

(Sorry for the censoring, but we have to stay family friendly)

[mistyronin 1181]

What about SNAR-10? It also has a turret and since this thing doesn't have much of it's, it could also be that.

Well, there is official confirmation that an armored column of the VDV "got lost" 30 km inside Ukraine, and had a firefight with the Ukrainian Army, and then surrendered to them.

( RIA Novosti ) Russian Paratroopers Crossed Ukrainian Border Accidentally - Experts

[Tonci87 163]

What about SNAR-10? It also has a turret and since this thing doesn't have much of it's, it could also be that.

SNAR-10? Are you serious?

OK, the SNAR-10 is based on the MTLB it does have a MG turret, but that turret is above the first passenger seat. It also has a large turret for the radar, here is one.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/ArmedForcesAcademy11Slovakia12.JPG

What we see here has only a MG- turret from the BTR-80 centered on the middle of the hull. Like this

http://btvt.narod.ru/5/mtlbm/14_5-2.jpg

[mistyronin 1181]

How could the pro-Russians start a new front in a town dozens of kms away from the pro-Russian territory under Ukrainian Army siege and that is just in the Russian border... any guess? :j:

( BBC ) Rebels push into port of Novoazovsk

Edited August 27, 2014 by MistyRonin

[vilas 473]

any guess? :j:

]

putin miracles and all blame poor Russia like Jews before WW2 ;)

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

PL press after Ukrainian press:

- another group of Russian soldiers captured, they also "lost the way",

- report about setting Russian Army base on territory of Ukraine

- report that "rebels" try to get to oil area, what i oil, i tried to check:

yes, near Crimea Ukraine has oil, of course in Eastern part (like all industry)

[miketim 20]

Misty, maybe a dormant group of pro russians that became milita, a news report with the wrong town name or whatever else.

Also vilas, lol what did you just write :confused:

[beastcat 14]

Misty, maybe a dormant group of pro russians that became milita, a news report with the wrong town name or whatever else.

Also vilas, lol what did you just write :confused:

Haha, yeah of course. Did they live inside the border control point?

[mistyronin 1181]

Haha, yeah of course. Did they live inside the border control point?

Yup with a dozen tanks and other armored vehicles hidden in the closet.

[vilas 473]

news from minute ago, PL press after Ukr press:

Ukrainian Army defeated at Novoazovsk, they and private ukrainian tv station report ca 30 Russian Army tanks

[surpher 1]

(Bellingcat) Revealed: Around 40 Russian Troops from Pskov Died in the Ukraine, Reinforcement Sent In

The instagram account of a Russian soldier who has recently returned to base from fighting in the Ukraine reveals the rough number of casualties in 76th Airbourne regiment from Pskov and proves Russian activity on Ukrainian territory.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Enough lies from Russia. It's time for the International community to raise its voice.

[beastcat 14]

Heres is another one of these things from the separatists from 10 days ago:

Source: Welt.de, Original Photo from AP

[vilas 473]

Enough lies from Russia. It's time for the International community to raise its voice.

i do not want to sound offending but i know how this voice will look :

- Merkel "we have enough of loosing export, sanctions are too high, Polish russofobia is too strong in EU, we cannot allow Poland to have ABM system cause it provokes Putin",

- France "another Mistrals are not sold, our cheese is not sold, we have unemployment"

- Italy "Gaz-Tigr-Iveco trucks need spare parts"

- Britain "will Ukrainians escaping from warzone will be cheaper than Poles in cleaning streets?"

- The Netherland "thay are homophobic there in Ukraine too as in Russia"

- Hungary "okay, so what will be now price of gas in next season?"

- Switzerland "how much money can be transfered by our banks?"

Edited August 27, 2014 by vilas

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'm afraid you're right Vilas, sadly.

[Tonci87 163]

Heres is another one of these things from the separatists from 10 days ago:

http://puu.sh/bau3n/8dbc92a5a6.jpg

Source: Welt.de, Original Photo from AP

Strela 10M on MTLB chassis. Ukraine has those too. Quite effective and highly mobile IR AA missile system.

I fear Vilas is right. Merkel is a spineless idiot who doesn´t want to offend anybody, so she will do absolutely nothing.

France has it´s own problems. The rest can´t do anything on their own.

But it get´s clearer by the Day that Russia is involved, not only by closing it´s eyes whenever Russians carry Arms into the Ukraine, not only by providing Weapons vehicles and equipment, but also by sending in highly trained personel.

The Rebels were very clearly on the loosing side a few weeks ago, now they have regained balance. That couldn´t have happened without further reinforcements.

I really feel sorry for (almost) everyone involved. The Ukrainians for having to deal with this shit, and the Russian soldiers for fighting in a war without recognition for what they are doing, with very high chances of dying. The Ukrainian troops are Veterans by now, most of the Russian soldiers won´t be prepared for this, casualties will be high on all sides.

[vilas 473]

i would not call that ... woman idiot, not , it is greed , not idiocy, it is will to earn money and business tension, Russia is big customer for them , it is business and money earning, not being passive or idiotic, simply "there is war with their dear valued customer"

[aleksadragutin 9]

i do not want to sound offending but i know how this voice will look :

- Merkel "we have enough of loosing export, sanctions are too high, Polish russofobia is too strong in EU, we cannot allow Poland to have ABM system cause it provokes Putin",

- France "another Mistrals are not sold, our cheese is not sold, we have unemployment"

- Italy "Gaz-Tigr-Iveco trucks need spare parts"

- Britain "will Ukrainians escaping from warzone will be cheaper than Poles in cleaning streets?"

- The Netherland "thay are homophobic there in Ukraine too as in Russia"

- Hungary "okay, so what will be now price of gas in next season?"

- Switzerland "how much money can be transfered by our banks?"

That's how sanctions work man. You can't sanction people blindly and deal justice, you have to take your economy into account as well.

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

i would not call that ... woman idiot, not , it is greed , not idiocy, it is will to earn money and business tension, Russia is big customer for them , it is business and money earning, not being passive or idiotic, simply "there is war with their dear valued customer"

I wouldn't call it greed. It's interests. You can not push your economy aside. Industry needs fuel. People need heat during the winter.

[vilas 473]

west always takes economy over morality/honor, this is what it differs from the east in life philosophy and human nature,

in west more people can agree to resign from moral/honor stuff in favor of profit, in east less people will do it,

east is closer to sacrifice profit when it comes to honor

[aleksadragutin 9]

Strela 10M on MTLB chassis. Ukraine has those too. Quite effective and highly mobile IR AA missile system.

I fear Vilas is right. Merkel is a spineless idiot who doesn´t want to offend anybody, so she will do absolutely nothing.

France has it´s own problems. The rest can´t do anything on their own.

But it get´s clearer by the Day that Russia is involved, not only by closing it´s eyes whenever Russians carry Arms into the Ukraine, not only by providing Weapons vehicles and equipment, but also by sending in highly trained personel.

The Rebels were very clearly on the loosing side a few weeks ago, now they have regained balance. That couldn´t have happened without further reinforcements.

I really feel sorry for (almost) everyone involved. The Ukrainians for having to deal with this shit, and the Russian soldiers for fighting in a war without recognition for what they are doing, with very high chances of dying. The Ukrainian troops are Veterans by now, most of the Russian soldiers won´t be prepared for this, casualties will be high on all sides.

I'm afraid that this doesn't have anything to do with who's in charge. If everyone was acting we would have WW3 by now. You have to stay silent sometimes for the greater good.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

west always takes economy over morality/honor, this is what it differs from the east in life philosophy and human nature,

in west more people can agree to resign from moral/honor stuff in favor of profit, in east less people will do it,

east is closer to sacrifice profit when it comes to honor

That is why east is behind west. It's our own flaw.

[vilas 473]

i do not know if is flawn, for me it is virtue, and German industry behaviour i only can call dirty words

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, my opinion is that Germany and main EU eastern countries (such as Poland) should take the lead in solving that mess. France and UK have exhausted their military capacities, and the USA can't (and shouldn't) be involved in every world conflict.