Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

Well now Croatia has a bigger fleet than the Ukraine.

Just for lulz here is the croatian navy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Croatian_Navy_ships

Why do they have 2 recreational sailboats? :rolleyes:

[cozza 24]

Dolphins Defect(CNN)

Yeah I did that in Red Alert 2. Sent a spy into a Allied base and made Soviet Dolphins :p

[Tonci87 163]

Why do they have 2 recreational sailboats? :rolleyes:

We also have a few yachts, they are missing in the english list, switch to croatian to see them. As to why we have them: The sailboats are for sports I believe and the yachts...well thats actually a damn good question. Why do we need yachts? Propably for some political stuff.

[arttem 1]

On the route to home. The column of military forces passed through Kerch to the ferry.

http://kerch.com.ru/images/2014/36021_011.JPG (322 kB)

http://kerch.com.ru/images/2014/36021_015.JPG (457 kB)

"We never will leave you in trouble and if our help is necessary, we, of course, will come back", - Ismail told to the journalist.

Video and photos here http://kerch.com.ru/articleview.aspx?id=36021

[barakokula31 10]

On the right side of the picture posted above are the ships that got captured by Russia. Will the Ukraine receive any form of compensation for the loss of Krimea and it´s fleet?

Tell me, what do you think? Is Russia actually going to compensate for all those ships? I highly doubt it.

[Amra 10]

Tell me, what do you think? Is Russia actually going to compensate for all those ships? I highly doubt it.

IMO some of these ships will be returned to Ukraine after unmount of possible NATO equipment.

[scrim 1]

We are speaking about USSR or Russia? O_o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Armed_Forces

http://i.imgur.com/15u2Ebd.png

Well, I did write "USSR" so, hint hint.

It is hard to gauge the exact percent of GDP spent on defense by the USSR, as 1, it was a very closely guarded secret (since the spending is what caused the downfall of the USSR, that makes sense), and 2, a lot of things were given free of charge to the military, e.g. nuclear missiles, which means that though a huge percent of GDP was spent on such things, it doesn't show up as defense spendings.

What NATO equipment would they have Amra? And exactly why would Russia on the one hand be so "generous" as to return the Ukrainian fleet to its rightful owners, but on the other hand nick a considerable part of the same owner's country? :rolleyes:

[Amra 10]

As I said - "IMO". There might be like in 2008 Georgians had a lot of NATO equipment. And I don't like the idea to humiliate someone. Hope that those ships would be returned to Ukraine.

[arttem 1]

Hope that those ships would be returned to Ukraine.

Most of that ships will be cut to the raw metall. Shoigu said that most of them in very bad condition. Metal scrap. For example they think what to do with that ship Olshanski:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/archive/0/05/20140109003841!%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%88%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9.jpg (175 kB)

They found that one of the engines (power plant) is dead. Absolutly. He have many damages, wich wasn't repaired for many years.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

Tell me, what do you think? Is Russia actually going to compensate for all those ships? I highly doubt it.

When Russia captured US equipment we didn't return it. So i don't think that our Ministry of Defence wanna return ships to guys who are play very dangerous game near the Europe and Russia borders. It's not the far Africa.

[scrim 1]

And I don't like the idea to humiliate someone. Hope that those ships would be returned to Ukraine.

So you hope that they get their ships back, but not the large part of their country that was recently unlawfully annexed? I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians feel more humiliated by Russia stealing Crimea, than by Russia stealing a bunch of obsolete Soviet era ships.

[Rydygier 1309]

http://www.wprost.pl/ar/441730/Najblizsze-dwa-dni-moga-byc-najtrudniejsze-w-historii-Ukrainy/

The next two days can be the most difficult in the history of independent Ukraine - says the former defense minister and former Secretary of the Security Council of Ukraine Yevhen Marchuk.

Marchuk said that on the east of the country are concentrated large groups of "tourists" from Russia. - Everything indicates that at the beginning does not have to come to of attack regular Russian troops on the territory of Ukraine, but will be initiated just like in the Crimea. May do that organized people who do not wear uniforms, but a large part of them will have an automatic weapon - he said.

[arttem 1]

Again.... Maidan. Live.

[mistyronin 1181]

Curious that even some of the most known Russian allies, like Kazakhstan, have not vote against the resolution...

In fact only countries like North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Sudan or so voted against... Seems quite clear who is in the Russians side ( with the exception of Nicaragua ).

( United Nations website ) Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

By a vote of 100 in favour to 11 against, with 58 abstentions, the 193-member Assembly called on all States, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any alteration of the status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol on the basis of the 16 March referendum “and to refrain from any action or dealing that might be interpreted as recognizing any such altered status.â€

Finally, the Assembly resolution makes explicit reference to the primacy of the UN Charter’s call for the preservation of the unity and territorial integrity of all UN Member States, and also recalls the 1994 Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between Ukraine and Russian, and other bilateral agreements between Ukraine and Russia.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjvwRoHCEAA-Fe2.jpg:large

Edited March 27, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Curious that even some of the most known Russian allies, like Kazakhstan, have not vote against the resolution...

In fact only countries like North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Sudan or so voted against... Seems quite clear who is in the Russians side ( with the exception of Nicaragua ).

( United Nations website ) Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjvwRoHCEAA-Fe2.jpg:largehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjvwRoHCEAA-Fe2.jpg:large

Nice. But, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid, not the UN Security Council. :) That resolution doesn't have any power at all.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Nice. But, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid, not the UN Security Council. :) That resolution doesn't have any power at all.

Well, the security council is obviously paralyzed. That's why this resolution is important anyhow.

[mistyronin 1181]

Nice. But, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid, not the UN Security Council. :) That resolution doesn't have any power at all.

Well, the UN assembly represents all the countries of the UN while the Security Council is hugely influenced by does who have veto vote ( so US, Russia, China, UK and France ).

Which means that most of the countries of the world consider that referendum is not valid. Only a tiny minority support the Russian movement.

[arttem 1]

Well, the security council is obviously paralyzed. That's why this resolution is important anyhow.

For massmedia? Yes.

[ProfTournesol 956]

For massmedia? Yes.

Nope, on a moral level.

[arttem 1]

Well, the UN assembly represents all the countries of the UN while the Security Council is hugely influenced by does who have veto vote ( so US, Russia, China, UK and France ).

Which means that most of the countries of the world consider that referendum is not valid. Only a tiny minority support the Russian movement.

For me and for most of Russians is not interesting what over countries (not regular people) says under US pressure.

I think in near future Vilas will be first who start to shout wtf is going on. :) You country is far from Ukraine border.

[ProfTournesol 956]

For me and for most of Russians is not interesting what over countries (not regular people) says under US pressure.

US pressure ? How blind Russian people can be amazes me.

[arttem 1]

US pressure ? How blind Russian people can be amazes me.

To be blind or not to be blind. To think as EU or not to think as EU. It's a personal right of any human. It's a democracy.

Can you tell me why we don't see sensation videos from Vice news? Semen very like hot themes about bloody dictatorship. Where is he? I can tell you where. He is running from corner to corner of Crimea trying to find any material from wich he can make a sensation. But .... And i can say, after month nobody will be interested in Crimea. Cause it's hard to show bloody dictatorship to EU from place there is no such things. LOL. Many people from bigland have plans to visit Crimea beaches that summer. Crimea will get a nice money profit. And they start to prepare hotels now. I was speaking today with hotel in Alushta. I'm pleased, and have plans to visit them.

Edited March 27, 2014 by ArtTem

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, France should invade Monaco, there are French speaking and that's a nice holidays resort.

[Dwarden 1125]

i'm sure they get all the money :) lol just like South Osetia and Abchazia ... promises come first, troops second ... money .... someday ... in future

[arttem 1]

i'm sure they get all the money :) lol just like South Osetia and Abchazia ... promises come first, troops second ... money .... someday ... in future

It seems that you realy don't know what means Crimea for Russians. :)

Whats wrong with Abchazia? :)

Sister of my wife have a weekends each summer there.

Now it looks quiet, clean and peacefull.

They make awesome wine. It's a very small republic. For example Praque population is 1 200 000 people. The whole Abchazia is 200 000 people.

[scrim 1]

To be blind or not to be blind. To think as EU or not to think as EU. It's a personal right of any human. It's a democracy.

Can you tell me why we don't see sensation videos from Vice news? Semen very like hot themes about bloody dictatorship. Where is he? I can tell you where. He is running from corner to corner of Crimea trying to find any material from wich he can make a sensation. But .... And i can say, after month nobody will be interested in Crimea. Cause it's hard to show bloody dictatorship to EU from place there is no such things. LOL. Many people from bigland have plans to visit Crimea beaches that summer. Crimea will get a nice money profit. And they start to prepare hotels now. I was speaking today with hotel in Alushta. I'm pleased, and have plans to visit them.

I thought it was pretty darn stupid to say "but but, there are Russians there" as a justification for invading Crimea. And now the justification from some seems to be "it's an awesome holiday resort, of course we had to annex it".

#1: The fact that only the worst countries in the world are standing on Russia's side in the UN vote means one very significant thing: Whilst not as powerful as the UN Security Council saying something, it certainly goes a long way towards indicating how many countries there are that will be prepared to sacrifice their economies for Russia's sake when the sanctions become more and heavier.

-China, why aren't you helping us out here?

-Eh? In case you didn't get the hint when we couldn't even bother raising our hand to vote in support of you in the UN, lemme make it clear to you: NO. I am not choking my economy because you wanted to look powerful and frightening, and now can't even fill your fridge.

#2: If the fact that around 50% of the Crimeans are Russians means Russia can have it, then what about Chechnya? Russians don't even make up 2% over there, whilst Chechnyans make up for over 95% of the population. And they certainly made it very clear that they wanted to be independent. Too much logic?

Edited March 27, 2014 by scrim