ballistics ArmA III Ballistics Overhaul WIP

[galzohar 31]

The problem is with a mod you would have to close your server only to players who have the mod. When a community is already struggling for gathering players to get a game going, this is quite a big deal.

Also, I don't really understand if there is an actual mod I can even enforce on our community server that will actually outright fix all the existing bullets in existing missions. As far as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), these are just values that other modders can use to configure their weapons with proper ballistics. That's all more of a reason to open a ticket for BIS to "please modify your config values for X/Y/Z ammo to these values", which is much more likely to be accepted than a "please fix your ballistics, they aren't realistic".

If there was suck a ticket I'd try get as many people as possible to vote on it. 5.56 in ArmA right now is a joke and I really do hope BIS would fix it if all it takes from them is changing some config values (though again, correct me if I didn't understand this the right way). Sure, they might completely ignore it, but at least then we've tried.

[EricJ 759]

You can try and "overwrite" the classnames and see how that works, but it's a mod in itself though but like very small one.

It may cause .rpts and with some clans I work with it's like 70 players, so everybody is going to spam .rpts though as people seem to not like .rpt errors, but it's a concern when you have that many playing. Making your own ammo is a good way to avoid that to a degree, as well of course using Spartan0536's ammo.

[galzohar 31]

I don't understand you, sorry. What exactly would be causing the RPT spam?

Where can I find an actual mod for this? Searching "Spartan0536 ammo" just leads back to this thread.

Bottom line is that I want to be able to use some kind of popular mod that I can add to the Play withSIX list and get proper ballistics in my games. There's no real way I can maintain such a mod myself, at least not in a bug-free fashion which would be required for something that makes up such a core element of the game. So even the "force everyone to use mod X" doesn't seem to be an option right now (unless I'm missing an actual mod that does it).

[stoffl 13]

@ galozhar: wouldn't you be able to write a replacement config for the vanilla ammo using spartan's values? since right now it would just be for the 5.56mm that wouldn't be too much work.

[ruthberg 7]

Spartan,

Would/could you add support for advanced ballistics to your code?

That would also be my suggestion. It would simplify the work of a 3rd party developer, who wants to support AdvancedBallistics, by a great deal.

I don't know if adding those parameters would effect your damage values or not. I know it does effect the trajectory of the rounds. But whether that effects the terminal ballistics I do not know.

The bullet velocities differ at long ranges, due to the different drag model. This does affect the terminal ballistics, but not adversely.

Bottom line is that I want to be able to use some kind of popular mod that I can add to the Play withSIX list and get proper ballistics in my games. There's no real way I can maintain such a mod myself, at least not in a bug-free fashion which would be required for something that makes up such a core element of the game. So even the "force everyone to use mod X" doesn't seem to be an option right now (unless I'm missing an actual mod that does it).

That is exactly what AdvancedBallistics does. It will get you proper ballistics for all vanilla small arms and 3rd party small arms that support it.

Play withSIX link: http://play.withsix.com/arma-3/mods/gpXxpWsd5BGZ2gAVF72WTA/Advanced-Ballistics

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Part of Rutherbergs work is knowing the rate of twist for the barrel the weapon is using which affects stability and ultimately accuracy, this is kind of out of my hands, however I can still get the info to him if I know what weapon systems I am developing the ballistics for, other than that I have all the data Ruthberg needs to make the ballistics spot on.

By far the most important parameter is the ballistic coefficient. All other parameters (bullet caliber, bullet length, bullet mass, gun powder temperature effect on muzzle velocity, barrel length, ...) are nice to have, but much less significant and optional.

I think you could get away with generalizing the twist rates based on caliber. At least for general issue MIL-SPEC rifles.

Providing bullet caliber, bullet length, barrel length, and twist rate data is optional. A stability factor of 1.5 is used, when you leave any of them empty.

My knowledge of how ammo is based in the game is still limited and even further limited when thinking about how the game figures out which values to use based on barrel length. I was under the impression that the ammo used in the M4 and M16 of RHs addons were the same since the magazines were interchangeable. I didnt know the values would change based on the barrel length.

This is how it works in vanilla ArmA III:

Ammo config:

airFriction - BC counterpart

caliber - penetration factor compared to 7.62 NATO

hit - stopping power

typicalSpeed - minimum velocity with full stopping power (e.g. 750 m/s for M855)

Magazine config:

initSpeed - muzzle velocity

This is how it works in AdvancedBallistics:

Ammo config:

caliber - penetration factor compared to 7.62 NATO

hit - stopping power

typicalSpeed - minimum velocity with full stopping power (e.g. 750 m/s for M855)

AB_caliber - bullet caliber in inches

AB_bulletLength - bullet length in inches

AB_bulletMass - bullet mass in grains

AB_ammoTempMuzzleVelocityData[] - array of muzzle velocity shifts in m/s with 11 data points from -15 °C to 35 °C (example: {-26.55, -25.47, -22.85, -20.12, -16.98, -12.80, -7.64, -1.53, 5.96, 15.17, 26.19}

AB_ballisticCoefficients - array of ballistic coefficients (contains one element more than the velocity boundary array)

AB_velocityBoundaries - array of velocity boundaries

AB_standardAtmosphere - "ASM" or "ICAO"

AB_dragModel - Number that specifies the drag model [1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8]

AB_muzzleVelocities - array of muzzle velocities (same size as barrel length array)

AB_barrelLengths - array of barrel lengths (same size as muzzle velocity array)

Weapon config:

AB_barrelTwist - barrel twist rate in inches

AB_twistDirection - direction of twist (-1 = left, 0 = no rifling, 1 = right)

AB_barrelLength - barrel length in inches

[Spartan0536 189]

Just to make things clear, I FULLY support Ruthebergs work, if you are looking for ultimate realism my ballistics values and his mod will deliver just that, most likely beyond even what the ACE/ACE 2 teams did for ArmA/ArmA 2, but unlike them we are focused specifically on ballistics and not a complete combat environment overhaul like ACE did. I am not putting down the ACE team if that's what it seems like, Xeno and many others who contributed to the ACE project are all legends in my opinion, ACE was a great thing that is sorrily missed in A3, and given the chance if they ever got the ACE team back up I would write ballistics code for them all day long.

I also want to make this clear, I do not fully write mods, I write ballistics code as a modders resource of which currently the "top ten" weapons modelers use my code over BIS default where applicable, its very likely that at some point if you use 3rd party weapons mods you have seen my ballistics code in action.

[Brisse 78]

I was a bit sceptic when Ruthberg first anounced Advanced Ballistics mod, but a lot has happened since then and now its one of my favorite mods. Great work so far.

[Spartan0536 189]

Well its done, finally done, I am married to my girlfriend whom I was dating for the past 11 years! The wedding preparations for the past 6 months and my job have taken up much of my free time, I do have some holiday's work ahead of me but I should be able to get back on track for finishing ballistics code.

[Teddybear1 11]

Good Luck to both of You!!

[blazenchamber 261]

Congratulations man.. and welcome back..

[sttosin 67]

Congrats dude!

[bakerman 247]

Congratulations! :bounce3:

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

By far the most important parameter is the ballistic coefficient. All other parameters (bullet caliber, bullet length, bullet mass, gun powder temperature effect on muzzle velocity, barrel length, ...) are nice to have, but much less significant and optional.

This is how it works in AdvancedBallistics:

Ammo config:

caliber - penetration factor compared to 7.62 NATO

hit - stopping power

typicalSpeed - minimum velocity with full stopping power (e.g. 750 m/s for M855)

AB_caliber - bullet caliber in inches

AB_bulletLength - bullet length in inches

AB_bulletMass - bullet mass in grains

AB_ammoTempMuzzleVelocityData[] - array of muzzle velocity shifts in m/s with 11 data points from -15 °C to 35 °C (example: {-26.55, -25.47, -22.85, -20.12, -16.98, -12.80, -7.64, -1.53, 5.96, 15.17, 26.19}

AB_ballisticCoefficients - array of ballistic coefficients (contains one element more than the velocity boundary array)

AB_velocityBoundaries - array of velocity boundaries

AB_standardAtmosphere - "ASM" or "ICAO"

AB_dragModel - Number that specifies the drag model [1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8]

AB_muzzleVelocities - array of muzzle velocities (same size as barrel length array)

AB_barrelLengths - array of barrel lengths (same size as muzzle velocity array)

Weapon config:

AB_barrelTwist - barrel twist rate in inches

AB_twistDirection - direction of twist (-1 = left, 0 = no rifling, 1 = right)

AB_barrelLength - barrel length in inches

i'm always amazed by how awesome Ruthberg could turn the vanilla ballistics into super realistic ballistics. I swear to God in heaven, i always use real high-end ballistics solvers like Applied Ballistics, Shooter, EBC, Ballistics AE, etc to play AB and you know what, they work perfectly awesome for AB! I input all AB ammo & gun parameters right into those solvers and their firing solutions will always exactly match the AB trajectories \m/ OMFG it means AB truly simulates real BC values, real MV (even with the MV variation due to powder temp), dynamic air density (pressure, temp, humidity), etc.

Hey Ruthberg, could you elaborate a lil bit how you converted the in-game airfriction to real BC value? till this day, i'm still wondering how you could that! and how did you come up with the AB? did you create AB using JBM? could you tell us a lil bit about the calculation behind AB?

Hey Spartan, you seem like a ballistics genius too, perhaps you could team up with Ruthberg? maybe you could help him expand the AB and add some more cool stuffs like more projectiles, scopes, reticles, etc...

P.S.: hey Spartan, congrats for the marriage ;)

Edited December 10, 2014 by TiborasaurusRex

[Spartan0536 189]

Thanks for the congrats and kind words, and TiborasurusRex I am already working with him, my ballistics code and his mod are 100% compatible and provide the most realistic ballistics in an ArmA/OFP game to date. The only limitations are on the objects RVMats, the HP system for soldiers/vehicles and my biggest hurdle the personal armor system which is a flat damage negation as BIS did not model an if/then clause set with body armor density.

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

Thanks for the congrats and kind words, and TiborasurusRex I am already working with him, my ballistics code and his mod are 100% compatible and provide the most realistic ballistics in an ArmA/OFP game to date. The only limitations are on the objects RVMats, the HP system for soldiers/vehicles and my biggest hurdle the personal armor system which is a flat damage negation as BIS did not model an if/then clause set with body armor density.

Holy cow! you helped Ruthberg make AB? damn, that's awesome! i salute you both, BI should hire you both as their ballisticians for sure! :D so we can actually run AB together with yours without having no conflicts whatsoever? how can i install your ballistics mod?

[Brisse 78]

how can i install your ballistics mod?

That will be difficult, since the work that spartan has done, is not a mod in itself. It's a collection of data, that he researched and tested, that is intended to help other modders create realistic ballistics for their mods.

[ruthberg 7]

how can i install your ballistics mod?

You're most likely already using his data. It is part of several 3rd party weapon mods.

so we can actually run AB together with yours without having no conflicts whatsoever? how can i install your ballistics mod?

His vanilla config tweaks do not interfere with AdvancedBallistics.

[Spartan0536 189]

You're most likely already using his data. It is part of several 3rd party weapon mods.

His vanilla config tweaks do not interfere with AdvancedBallistics.

Ruthberg is 100% correct, now I did NOT help him create his mod, I hope I inspired him but you would have to ask him that. However his mod and my ballistics code are 100% compatible, I write the ballistics code for modders to use, when you apply his mod his code changes the variables in the weapons and environment. In fact, I use a "perfect shooting environment" for my ballistics, so once his mod kicks in, it should be as real as possible as most ammunition manufacturers use ideal environments to specify their ballistic data.

[Spartan0536 189]

Ok, I am working on ballistics for 7.62x51mm NATO, I have been able to get MINIMAL info on the M80A1 EPR, I do have the entire spectrum data for the M80 Ball ammo, and there is a big difference between the rounds. I most likely made the FBI/NSA S**T list when I called ATK and was re-directed to a contact at the US Army's Picatinny Arsenal Research Center who pretty much told me in not so many words to f**k off. All I know for fact on the M80A1 EPR right now is that it is a mild steel arrowhead with a copper base like the M855A1 EPR, most likely with a boat tail and its still 147 grains with a slightly better ballistics coefficient. I have absolutely insufficient data to even attempt a ballistics calculation and penetration performance in anything that I could even remotely call accurate.

So, in lieu of this, I am asking you the community what you want.....

A. Stick with the M80 Ball, despite its old age and rather limiting performance, after all its just ball ammo...

B. Try to get the new M80A1 EPR data, it should pair nicely with the M855A1 EPR.

The choice is yours, I will be monitoring the results over the next 2 days to determine a course of action based on popular demand. If option A is chosen I can have the values finalized within a few days and posted, with option B it may be a week or more depending upon how fast my connections and channels work.

[samyg 3]

I say go with option A. Let's not get you locked up in GitMo ;P.

[Spartan0536 189]

so far 1 vote for A

[corporal_lib[br] 396]

Me too, if gov personnel gets jumpy with your research, better not play Ivan and Martin´s role and begone from this foruns (for IRL jail) and RH M4´s update will never see the daylight again =P

[roberthammer 582]

Dont risk mate , rather do your own M80A1 - like i said many times before they dont need to be 1000% accurate to the real stats

Long range ones would be nice to have

[Spartan0536 189]

OK so it seems as if the M80 Ball shall suffice. If the information comes up later through official channels I will update 7.62x51mm NATO then with the M80A1, I can't give an estimation on that however.

[blazenchamber 261]

Much love from the SMA clan do it do it do it.. :p