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Spartan0536

ArmA III Ballistics Overhaul WIP

Would you use this ballistic code in your mod?  

158 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you use this ballistic code in your mod?

    • Yes
    • Not Sure, perhaps you could site your findings more in depth
    • No


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Yes - show the love to the most amazing non-bolt action handheld weaponsmanufacture in ze world!

Sadly the german military went kind of "but we dont want a new bullet even if it is amazing and completly overpowers our current used round" - which is why there is a 9mm Version of this PDW. (NSWDG got the 4.6 Versions ^^)

Also thank you for providing the indepth view on how you accuired your data sets. Your data will definitly find its way into our weapons systems.

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IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!!!

I have finished work on the 4.6x30mm H&K rounds, they are in final testing and will be released when I finish my 5.56x45mm overhaul which will include various barrel lengths in them, and if Robert Hammer is nice enough to PM me at his convenience about what weapons he is adding to his M4/M16 pack I can get the 7.62x51mm NATO variables set to go as well.....

That being said, I now have standardized all of my ballistics testing into an absolute infallible method (as infallible as the ArmA III engine provides), all of the hits, penetrations, airfriction values, and velocities are calculated down to the hundred thousandth or greater range. All of my ballistics are based off of this standardized ideal medium....

G1 Drag Function (Yes I know G7 is the newest and most accurate, however 99.9% of bullets out there have their G1 coefficients and calculating a G1-G7 is extremely difficult, G1 coefficients will suffice for ArmA's limited engine)

Standard Sea Level Barometric Pressure of 29.92 Hg

Mean Sea Level Ideal Temperature of 26 Degrees Centigrade or 78 Degrees Fahrenheit

Relative Humidity of 70%

Standard Gravitational Pull of -9.8067 m/s squared

Wind Angle of 0

Wind Velocity of 0

Altitude of 1.763 meters to simulate the average human height of 5 feet 9 1/2 inches

Q. Why no wind, a pressure of 29.92 Hg, a temperature of 28 and 70% humidity, why not XXX,XXX,XXX, blah blah blah......?

A. This is to simulate the ideal shooting environment to which ArmA is a PERFECT military environment (this does not mean ArmA itself is perfect), what I mean by this is, a real battlefield is not really quantifiable as its environment changes in minutes and hours making ballistics change all the time. In ArmA we can not calculate this, so I use a base standard to put these rounds in as best a shooting environment gets. This should actually work out quite well on Altis and Stratis, as for Fallujah or Qom Provice, Chernarus, ect... if you feel up to the task editing ballistics to suit a certain map, by all means go ahead, but I really don't see the point and I don't have the time to spend on it.

Please note the calculations for penetration, damage (especially this), and airfriction are all based on BIS's engine and attempt from their end in the "simulator" to replicate real ballistics, if you are having issues with my ballistics, check with BIS on how they implement ballistics in their game.

Edited by Spartan0536

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We are holding our breath here, thanks for your work Spartan, you are our standard.

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Hello again everyone, I wish I was here to tell you that massive work has been done but sadly that is not the case....

As it stands my PC (which I hand built, I am a PC Tech by trade) is now over 4 years old, and my PSU was slowly dying, this lead to my OS corruption due to insufficient power to the drives resulting in a loss of data integrity. Yes this is as bad as it sounds, however over the past week I have managed to get my lost work back and with my new XFX 850W Gold Pro PSU (its extremely nice, pretty much a rebranded high end Seasonic) and a free upgrade from my old 560Ti to a 560Ti 448 FTW I am back in the game. Rest assured I WILL NOT give up on this project especially after the community has helped me so much especially members like Olds and Bakerman. Revisions of my old ballistics are to follow up with new ballistics; I did get to get some real range time in while I have been gone and my friend took me to his Law Enforcement Departments outdoor range where I was able to shoot MILSPEC M4A1's and M16A4's (yes with Burst and Automatic functionality) and get some accurate chrono data which pretty much correlated with my new revised data (which I have yet to release). I can say for velocity, drag, and one M4A1 and M16 MILSPEC platforms should be almost EXACT, and this is done through REAL LIFE PERSONAL TESTING. As a bonus I will include a video of me at an annual machine gun shoot which I go to with a friend just to prove I do shoot automatics and have some experience in the matter. Sorry for the delay, work should begin again soon, enjoy!

Uzi 4 You

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Data loss can be a real pain, glad you didn't lose it all. Good luck, I plan to add your ballistics data in all future weapons packs :)

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Was desperate not to see anything coming, thanks for the reassuring news and KUTGW Spartan.

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Well I have been rewriting my ballistics code for pistols as of a few days ago, and I have done some renditions to them....

9x19mm Parabellum ballistics have been brought up to the latest code using the exact code for ArmA III thanks to Bakerman's Community Ballistics Calculator. None of the round types have changed, here are the rounds for 9x19mm and .357 Sig. To follow soon will be .40 S&W and then .45 ACP. The reasons I choose these is that they are the most popular with either LE/Military units and or Civilian Self Defense.

9x19mm Parabellum

FMJ - Speer Lawman Total Metal Jacket Round Nose

830053.jpg

JHP - Federal Tactical HST Jacketed Hollow Point

hqdefault.jpg

Special - BuffaloBore Full Metal Jacket "Penetrator" +P+

large_225_24F_Large.jpg

.357 Sig

FMJ - Underwood Speer Bonded Full Metal Jacket Flat Nose

mqdefault.jpg

JHP - Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock Jacketed Hollow Point

http://www.hhshootingsports.com/WireShots/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/hornady_357_sig_critical_duty.jpg (126 kB)

Special - DoubleTap Ammo Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/DOUBLE%20%20TAP/Double%20Tap%20Ammo-Spring%202012/DT-180-2.jpg (115 kB)

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I have a question if anyone can answer it....

Working on Pistol/SMG ballistics I have to change my way of calculating penetration as most pistol rounds are not fired at RHA plates but rather ballistics gelatin, let me break this down for you.....

ALL of my pistol ballistics that I plan to implement are based off of the FBI and IWBA standards, what this means is....

All tests are done with FBI specified Organic Ballistics Medium BB calibrated to 3.5mm

All my bullets have to meet the minimum of 12 inches of FBI calibrated organic ballistics medium and for hollow points its a MAXIMUM of 18 inches

FBI Spec organic ballistics medium is scientifically calibrated to match HUMAN MUSCLE TISSUE, this does not mean 12 inches in ballistics gelatin equals 12 inches in a body, skin alone can account for 4-6 inches of gelatin, this is why a BB needs to be calibrated to 3.5mm penetration, as a BB will penetrate the skin but will not penetrate much farther if not past the skin alone (sub-dermal penetration).

My question is, the bullet penetrability in ArmA III for meat is 100, this means that a bullet with a caliber of 1 moving at 1000 m/s will penetrate 100mm of meat, this correlates to 3.9371 inches of penetration. Is their "meat" BP rating set for muscle tissue or is this simulating a body, also there is a BP for "meat and bones" which is set to 48, I am confused at this point, and I am trying to get the bullet penetration correct for this, if anyone has any information on this please let me know.

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can you do +P for rifle rounds? i usually use them here at my battalion

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can you do +P for rifle rounds? i usually use them here at my battalion

It depends on the caliber, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and 7.62x54R are all military standard rounds which by civilian loads are in effect +P with their chamber pressures largely elevated, for other non-standard rounds its possible if they present a viability over other rounds available. 9x19mm and .45ACP are both using +P and +P+ however....

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I don't know the name of the rounds, we just receive a box and all the bullets are there, it is a .308, as my battalion has a "Caçadores " division, we receive special ammo for the Snipers, the .308 i usually shoot is around 3400 fps and is a 150 gr

---------- Post added at 02:28 ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 ----------

When we receive a new ammo we usually test the performance

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I don't know the name of the rounds, we just receive a box and all the bullets are there, it is a .308, as my battalion has a "Caçadores " division, we receive special ammo for the Snipers, the .308 i usually shoot is around 3400 fps and is a 150 gr

---------- Post added at 02:28 ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 ----------

When we receive a new ammo we usually test the performance

That 150 grain bullet sounds like a standard M80 ball round which would make sense. Most of your sniper rounds are around 175 Grains and have a lower initial velocity but a much higher ballistics coefficient giving them better terminal performance down range. However a 7.62x51mm NATO 150 grain round moving at 3400 FPS is nuts, thats like +P++ ranges, way over pressured, not even sure SAAMI or MilSpec barrels can handle that.

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Is not nuts, we tested it over and over, actually i found few stores selling +P that went to 3300, since normal 150gr is anywhere from 2900 to 3000 fps

---------- Post added at 03:56 ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 ----------

Here we chose more Initial velocity, makes easier to track moving targets

---------- Post added at 04:11 ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 ----------

Oh and one other thing...can we use your ballistic in the brazilian armed forces mod?

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My ballistic coding is open source to all mod makers for ArmA III, all I ask in return is that I am given credit where it is due.

BTW the hottest 150 grain .308 round I have found on the civilian market which is rated +P is from BuffaloBarnes and its rated to 3000 ft/s

Edited by Spartan0536

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I use M118LR standard in all EBRs, SASS, bolt action, etc. Once again cheers for the attention to detail, really awesome work!!

US Army 5th SFG (abn) Weapons SGT

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I use M118LR standard in all EBRs, SASS, bolt action, etc. Once again cheers for the attention to detail, really awesome work!!

US Army 5th SFG (abn) Weapons SGT

I will not be using the M118LR but its proposed replacement the Mk316 Mod 0 featuring a Sierra Match King bullet matched with a Federal Cartridge and Gold Medal Match Primer and the propellant being an IMR 4064 blend. The Mk316 Mod 0 looks to outclass the M118Lr by quite a bit, I know hunters were not fond of the M118LR due to its MOA rating at long distances even in match grade rifles using Nightforce LR optics.

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Wouldn't it be bufallo bores? they sell 3300 was from them i found it..they also sell charts for this configuration

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Wouldn't it be bufallo bores? they sell 3300 was from them i found it..they also sell charts for this configuration

The hottest 150 grain I have found from BuffaloBore was 3000 ft/s and that was the hottest commercial round I found on the net in the 150 grain .308 range. You may be able to squeeze a bit more out of the cartridge by hand loading however you really need to watch the SAAMI chamber pressures otherwise your barrel will become a hand grenade.

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http://www.buffalobore.com/images/eb_39C_3200fps.png

Same website...ballistic chart for bullet .308

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

http://www.buffalobore.com/images/eb_39C_3200fps.png

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Just the link in case you doubt about me

Try this one.... https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=259

All it is giving you is a range card at a certain velocity, a 22 inch barrel Kimber 84 Montanta had a muzzle velocity recorded for 2867 FPS, that is a 22 inch barrel, to get 3200 FPS you would need a 32-34 inch barrel. Just so you know the longest battle rifle still in active use by a military force chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO is the FN FAL which comes in at a whopping 22 inches, this will NOT attain 3200 FPS due to the barrel length being the same as the Kimber Montana.

Now perhaps with a custom 32 inch Sniper Barrel it MIGHT get 3100 - 3200 FPS out of it but that would not be what your average infantryman shoots.

This should really drive my point home.....

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=64

This is a .45 ACP +P 185 JHP round

here is the TOP most Range card from that round....

eb_45-185_1400fps.png

So does this mean that a M1911 will be shooting this at 1400 FPS, I THINK NOT, please note that at the top top of the page, he shot his own Personal 1911 and I quote BuffaloBarnes....

"The below velocities were fired from my personal Colt Gold Cup 1911 (5 inch)

1. 45185-----------1180 fps (185gr. Jhp)"

Edited by Spartan0536

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Any 6.8SPC information yet?

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Any 6.8SPC information yet?

I have a limited selection to work with but I have some really good candidates, just need some BC's from the manufacturer to get things rolling, I should be in contact with SSA by Monday - Wednesday of next week.

Rounds are as follows....

FMJ = Remington UMC 120 Grain Full Metal Jacket

OTM = Silver State Armory 115 Grain Open Tip Match Tactical

Special = Hornady Custom 120 Grain SST

Edited by Spartan0536

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Cool, thanks!

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Hello again ArmA community,

As promised I have been hard at work on these ballistic refinements using the new infallible system thanks to Bakerman and Olds. My 2 biggest snags on the overly delayed release are....

1. BIS developer correspondences via E-Mail to me and vice versa on bullet penetration values and object density calculations

2. Voice correspondences via phone to ammunition manufacturers and their replies.

These 2 things are ABSOLUTELY Critical in my work to ensure proper game accuracy to real life values. Once BIS gets back to me on how the calculated Meat & Bones and Meat for densities, I will ask the community to make a very small mod that has the exact density of FBI calibrated ballistics gelatin, and from there I can get penetration depths damn near 100% correct.

Something interesting to note, right now going off of the information that Olds and Bakerman have given me, a .357 Sig pistol round with a caliber of 1.3 IS NOT the same as a 5.56x45mm round with a caliber of 1.3.

Q.Why is this so?

A. ArmA III's penetration system is based on Bullet Density (Grains/Grams), velocity, and the amount of material said bullet is capable of penetrating.

Example.... A Federal Tactical HST 9mm JHP bullet penetrates 15 inches of ballistics gelatin at the muzzle, ballistics gelatin is supposed to simulate meat, so therefore as a base medium we would use Meat in our calculation in ArmA III, for me to have a 9mm JHP penetrate 15 inches of meat it would need to have a Caliber of 11.575, yes that is not a typo I did mean 11.575

This is the reason why I have contacted BIS about object penetrability and their respective densities and why once that is complete I will be asking the community to make a small ballistics resource mod to exactly calibrate FBI spec gelatin for testing using Dyslexi's colored bullet velocity trails. This is what is taking me so long, and I refuse to give inaccurate data for people to use and claim its accurate. As for 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39 I was able to get actual RHA numbers in for penetration and with RHA modeled in game that made my job easier, its the SMG, Pistol, and non MIL-Spec ammunition so difficult for me to accurately calculate penetration.

Just as a reference, using a full Mil Spec Beretta M9A1 9mm pistol with a standard 4.5 inch barrel a Federal Tactical HST JHP averages in 5 shots in bare gelatin a penetration of 15 inches which equals 381mm.

Math for Math nerds/geeks :P

Initial Velocity: 329.184 m/s

Material Density Profile (Meat): 100

Caliber: 11.575

Total Penetration: 381.03048 mm = 15.0012 inches

Edited by Spartan0536

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