Damage system sucks - fix needed

[Tonci87 163]

If he has armor, you most likely did not place the rounds "into" him. So basically when choosing loadout we have to think in terms of penetration power.

Noone is surprised that we need an AT weapon to take out a tank, so we must consider armor in infantry vs. infantry situations as well.

However, what makes it a game balancing problem is that they calmly can shoot back at you and cunningly shoot you in the head (where your own armor does not help). They need some sense of fear of death and some suitable delay from shock or something :)

Armor is a fine thing but the enemy´s reactions need some improvement.

[-Coulum- 35]

Armor is a fine thing but the enemy´s reactions need some improvement.

Well I agree, but armour isn't quite fine at the moment - not because of its damage reduction/prevention, but rather its coverage. A helmet covers your whole head. A vest covers the entire torso and belly from ALL angles. This isn't precise enough - and not for simulation reasons, but rather simply for gameplay. Its frustrating as hell knowing that with my 556 there is absolutely no chance of getting a one shot kill against an armoured enemy no matter how lucky/accurate I place my shot.

• Fix coverage of armour to be more precise
  
• Make proper hit effects for both ai and player when hit in the armour
  
• 
  

That may not bring the game to "simulation standards" but it will get the job done good enough. I am interested to know just how much the devs are going to mess around with the armour system at this point. It kind of scares me that the latest implementation of armour has been put into the stable branch.

[nerdwing 13]

Let 6.5mm hit as hard as the current 7.62 and you're good to go, IMO.

[semiconductor 309]

If he has armor, you most likely did not place the rounds "into" him. So basically when choosing loadout we have to think in terms of penetration power.

Noone is surprised that we need an AT weapon to take out a tank, so we must consider armor in infantry vs. infantry situations as well.

I'm afraid that with new armor system there is no choice in loadout actually. Simply pick up a weapon with largest caliber available (Mk18 / Rahim / MX / Katiba) and forget about all those 5.56 and 9mm since they are nearly as effective as sledgehammer against MBT.

[acerus 10]

First day playing ARMA3 and my otherwise great experience was ruined by the ridiculously tough AI. I put four well-placed 6.5mil rounds into him and he turned around and one shot killed me.

:(

Exactly, what happend to me. Bought the Game yesterday. That AI is just disgusting, so i hope there will be worked on.

[gambla 10]

I'm playing the series since OFP and still love it. Now i just bought A3 some days ago and i think it's great, in so much better state than i'd expected. And i was never too bothered by more or less bugs in early versions, but the damage system is really a showstopper. Just playing the Night-showcase and when hitting an AI sitting by the fire, he pops forwards and backwards but no other simple realistic reaction at all. It has been always hard to fight AI teams with their pinpoint accuracy, but knowing that you need to hit them at least 4 or 5 times is stupid. A side effect is that when shooting from a distance it's so hard to tell if you had hit or missed. Their's just no proper realistic reaction to a hit. And realism is what makes the difference of Arma, being a combat simulator, to a shooter game. I can only wonder why BI could release it with that ?

[semiconductor 309]

And realism is what makes the difference of Arma, being a combat simulator, to a shooter game.

If I remember correctly, developers repeatedly stated that Arma 3 IS a shooter game that balanced for PvP, not a combat simulator. And I personally find it quite hard to disagree with them, especially since all that Arma 3 simulates is just some futuristic, boring and unconvincing Crysis-style "super-tech".

But you're right, Arma 3 is nearly unplayable for almost two months due to those experiments with soldier protection (a soldier survives 5.56mm shot directly at the lower part of his forehead - seriously?!). And since it's higly doubtful that BI will ever implement a proper reaction to a hit I guess that the best they can do now is return the old system until the new one is ready.

[gambla 10]

You may be right with A3's true description/definition. I've always understood Arma being a military sim, anyway. However, the main element is "shooting" and "get shot", and ,excluding MP, that's imho broken critically.

If we consider A3 as just a better shooter-game, then there's no point in making any part of it as realistic as possible (what we love), but not this core element. Let's hope they fix it asap.

edit:

that looks promising: http://steamcommunity.com/app/107410/discussions/0/648816742562523488/#p2

Edited January 11, 2014 by gambla

[dnk 13]

ACE and mods make it a milsim. It's always been a very weak milsim by comparison to non-FPS milsims (flight sims in particular) where attention to detail, simulation, and realism are far greater than this. The campaigns speak for themselves on the overall tone being struck.

Now, yeah, it's a very "hardcore" milsim by comparison with just about every other FPS ever made, but almost every other FPS ever made hasn't put much effort into simulation.

[GShock 10]

Gotta play Combined Arms showcase and you really realize with this damage model 5 clips are not enough to complete a mission. In most cases it takes an entire clip to kill a soldier... as if the separate spots you hit were not connected to one another (i.e. if you hit someone on the arm perhaps the bullet will get through and hit the torso).

It's really comic from a military simulator to have a bad dmg model as this... and the game wasn't really released yesterday so it's about time to fix it.

[gambla 10]

What i'd like to see "technically" is a protection of 3 hits max. For realism/immersion i'd like to see some random human like reactions like a first hit dropping the AI, then standing up again. Another one should drop by shock, seek cover and fall back for some seconds. However they shouldn't return highly accurate fire like nothing happened at all.

Edited January 12, 2014 by gambla

[mamasan8 11]

What i'd like to see "technically" is a protection of 3 hits max. For realism/immersion i'd like to see some random human like reactions like a first hit dropping the AI, then standing up again. Another one should drop by shock, seek cover and fall back for some seconds. However they shouldn't return highly accurate fire like nothing happened at all.

It ruins quite a lot since shooting AI/people is what this game is about.

3 shots from a Rahim with 7.62 to down anything, same with mk18...5+ from most other guns.

Also, that feedback from getting a hit. It is not realistic, it is not believable. It's silly.

Because AI are aimbots and don't seem to take damage (no damage or dead seems to be the only modes for AI), the behavior is silly too. Sometimes they just stand there or lie there and wait for someone to shoot them. They might react on the third shot. In which case they return pretty much full auto fire in your head, thru ground, thru houses, thru anything.

It would be more believable if they came to hunt you if they don't have line-of-sight of you.

And also if it was like the old OFP and Armas, a hit wounds a soldier, after 1-2 hits, AI can't walk, they have to crawl.

[tumble_dry 0]

[Tonci87 163]

Nice video that perfectly shows what is wrong.

No Vest IRL would stop 7,62 assault rifle bullets from that distance.

The rifle damage gets lowered because of the silencer, that is wrong.

The vest protects the whole torso, even from the sides. That too is wrong.

Hits in the Arms didn´t stop that dude from killing you.

[GShock 10]

Simulation of the year (according to the press release update by PC Gamer). The metascore instead seems to be highly optimistic on the real state of this game, according to me.

The flight model of helicopters makes you miss Battlefield2, clipping through rocks, walls, etc... the AI headshooting you after you empty entire clips on them is really making the overall experience comic but it often becomes TRAGIC when you bring forth the issues and you're stormed by trolls, backed up by the moderators.

Bought this game at release date, I can barely stand 5' gameplay before quitting out and I'm not even allowed to express my opinion under threat of getting banned: this is what ArmA3 has been so far for me.

[13islucky 10]

Simulation of the year (according to the press release update by PC Gamer). The metascore instead seems to be highly optimistic on the real state of this game, according to me.

The flight model of helicopters makes you miss Battlefield2, clipping through rocks, walls, etc... the AI headshooting you after you empty entire clips on them is really making the overall experience comic but it often becomes TRAGIC when you bring forth the issues and you're stormed by trolls, backed up by the moderators.

Bought this game at release date, I can barely stand 5' gameplay before quitting out and I'm not even allowed to express my opinion under threat of getting banned: this is what ArmA3 has been so far for me.

To be fair, Arma 3 doesn't have much competition in the 'simulator' category, with luminaries such as Woodcutting Simulator 2013 (which is a real thing) being the main competitors. Anyways, while I can't agree on everything you say you do bring up valid issues that may or may not be addressed eventually. You can't say that no one understands your frustration, but.

At least you are being respectable, you know. As opposed to this http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-pc-patch-jan13/

"stop kidding yourselves you fixed nothing you useless pigs"

"Come on guys dont thank them for fixing their own mess! They should begging for our forgiveness!"

"new patch first game and it crashed with in 5 min!!!!!! good job doing nothing you fucking stupid fucks omg fix the fucking game it should not crash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck you and you shit patch!!!!!!!!"

Now THIS would get you banned. Please don't be like this.

[Tonci87 163]

Simulation of the year (according to the press release update by PC Gamer). The metascore instead seems to be highly optimistic on the real state of this game, according to me.

The flight model of helicopters makes you miss Battlefield2, clipping through rocks, walls, etc... the AI headshooting you after you empty entire clips on them is really making the overall experience comic but it often becomes TRAGIC when you bring forth the issues and you're stormed by trolls, backed up by the moderators.

Bought this game at release date, I can barely stand 5' gameplay before quitting out and I'm not even allowed to express my opinion under threat of getting banned: this is what ArmA3 has been so far for me.

Dude nobody will ban you if you criticise the game. I do it quite often if I find something that doesn´t seem right. Just make sure that you stay polite and don´t insult anybody. Also simply saying "This Sucks" is not a good form of criticism. Try to elaborate how it could be better.

[KingoftheSandbox 10]

This indeed is very weak work from BIS. Forget realism ... this is called a gamebreaker, nothing less.

[Nicholas 5]

To be fair, Arma 3 doesn't have much competition in the 'simulator' category, with luminaries such as Woodcutting Simulator 2013 (which is a real thing) being the main competitors.

I don't think Woodcutting Simulator 2013 is their main competitor. I personally believe that their main competitors are Battlefield and Call of Duty. I believe I remember Maruk (Or someone) stating a while back that it was a mistake to label the game as a "simulator". I can't seem to find it anywhere, but if I do I'll be sure to post a link.

[rye1 21]

ARMA's main competitor is itself. :P

[progamer 14]

I don't think Woodcutting Simulator 2013 is their main competitor. I personally believe that their main competitors are Battlefield and Call of Duty. I believe I remember Maruk (Or someone) stating a while back that it was a mistake to label the game as a "simulator". I can't seem to find it anywhere, but if I do I'll be sure to post a link.

Dean Hall refers to Arma 2 as a simulator and it is listed as a simulator on steam. So why would Arma 3 be any different?

This would be really funny as PC Gamer labeled Arma 3 "Best simulator of the year"...

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/27/simulation-of-the-year-arma-3/

Edited January 14, 2014 by ProGamer

[13islucky 10]

I don't think Woodcutting Simulator 2013 is their main competitor. I personally believe that their main competitors are Battlefield and Call of Duty. I believe I remember Maruk (Or someone) stating a while back that it was a mistake to label the game as a "simulator". I can't seem to find it anywhere, but if I do I'll be sure to post a link.

While I personally agree with you in that, it seems that the medias still consider Arma to be a simulator, meaning that it's not compared as much to shooters. If you consider Arma as a sim (a rather niche market, to be honest), then you have no similar competition.

[GShock 10]

Yes... as military simulator, it's got 1st place, besting its only competitor: itself. :)

However, it has to be noted the latest devbranch update reports the damage for headshots from small calibers has been increased. They are on the right track at least it won't take half a clip of headshots to kill an enemy... 2 or 3 hits will do. :)

[LowFlyZone 10]

I find myself avoiding firefights as much as possible unless I know it's something like 1 vs 1 where I might stand a chance. Just yesterday I got frustrated trying to finish the last campaign mission 3 weeks after starting the campaign. I was playing with TPW supression as I usually do (unless multiplayer ofcoz) which helps under heavy fire fights but jesus, 3 times I still got killed by an AAF who would turn around, smack himself on the ground and shoot me in the head all in one go, after I had already fired about 8-9 rounds at him from ~80m away in prone position! Needless to say I'm still not done with the campaign because I gave up between the random mortar fire and the paratroopers who would kill me 1 shot behind my bush/tree while I emtpy my clips.

My latest tactics (in my own little scenarios or Alive gameplay) is to use grenade launchers, AT, sniper rifles and vehicles to cut up infantry. I stay away from standard rifles and have never used a pistol in this game, I always dump it and replace it for more primary ammo.

My aiming is usually good (experienced OFP/Arma player) and I must say that this game has the most frustrating shooting/damage mechanics of any Arma game to date. I much prefer the 1-3 shot kills and almost instant death of previous titles. The stakes were higher but if you played right it was waay more fun. 1-2 shot die, 1-2 shot kill, I knew this and could act smart. In Arma 3 no matter what I do, wait behind cover, take my time, sneak or run and gun, I WILL die and want to merge my head with my keyboard! :banghead: The aiming mechanics in Ofp/Arma/Arma 2 were too rigid but in Arma 3 it's too fluffy, mouse laggy, blood vessel pahpin', special olympic gay! :31:

I feel a little too much gameyness in Arma 3. :party:

Don't get me wrong, I do often enjoy this game but most of that is thanks to the modding community, occasional online play as well as the new graphics and vehicle handling!

[chompster 29]

Dean Hall refers to Arma 2 as a simulator and it is listed as a simulator on steam. So why would Arma 3 be any different?

because other than ballistics(flight path), it doesn't really simulate anything properly?