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Damage system sucks - fix needed

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I've been playing around with OFP and despite all the flaws, its medical system is still leaps ahead of ArmA 3's. A maximum of two torso hits from any rifle results in death. It's all very simple and it works well.

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Well here I leave yet another example of the shoddy system damage this time with the explosions of the vehicles. http://youtu.be/7vxO3H2oc3U

Important note: The Hunter MRAP has no fuel in the tank.

finding: Since it is possible to exploit Hunter MRAP?. is not logical is unreasonable is not acceptable.

Edited by Metralla

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My last test on the damage caused by the weapons show that something is wrong and this test is about 1.24RC version, and if I'm wrong feel free to tell me.

I make this video to judge if the damage taken by vehicles is normal or not and always basing on the system itself damages the game.

"In my humble opinion the damage system is not well " http://youtu.be/HNGMe4N4jOw

This last video devoted to this Thread= http://youtu.be/3Jk7H0VO9Oc

Edited by Metralla

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There is still the problem of the leg: in previous ArmA games, you would be forced to crawl / go prone with leg hit.

Now, you can still walk, even with a bullet in each knee...

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I agree with the OP, the damage system is quite ridiculous. It's very annoying when I shoot a soldier at center-mass only for them to just flinch for less than half a second and then continue firing. The soldiers also don't go prone if you shoot at their legs as has been shown in one of the previous posts. They can keep on walking around fine even if you shoot them directly in the knees. And then, of course, if you shoot them in the legs enough they'll go from "walking around fine" to "instantly dead." It just makes no sense. It is certainly becoming more reminiscent of CoD, what with me always having to aim for a headshot to take enemies out quickly.

Edited by IcyFreshWerewolf

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Well, it seems that developers visit these threads and see the videos we got on youtube ... and there is at least a solution to the problem of quadbike when they explode and destroy whatever is in its destructive radio. You can try it yourself and you will see the change but of course now the explosion of these vehicles do not affect the flies flying by altis. However the problem has not gone away because if you place near any other vehicle other than a quad bike or kart the explosion of these continues to destroy tanks.

It's pretty clear that the solution made ​​by the developer has been off the explosion and the damage of these 2 cars, which demonstrates that the damage system is very primitive or the game engine does not give more of himself.

This video shows how to exploit a normal car destroyed 6 tanks with a single blast, it is also true that for this to happen tanks or vehicle must be within walking distance of each other. The point is that it has no logic to operate a vehicle can destroy a tank by my fence this this. NEW VIDEO: http://youtu.be/5dsUznP9Dpc

  • Tweaked: Destruction effects for quadbikes and karts :moto: FPDR

Edited by Metralla

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I just shot 4 or 5 rounds of 5.56 into (chest) a enemy ai (no plate carrier) from 5m away AND THIS GUY SURVIVED AND GAVE ME A HEADSHOT !

These are the moments you realize the ArmA3 Damage system is bad...

Edited by Wiggum

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Don't forget CSAT's magic bullet resistant uniforms, and the fact 12.7x99 only has an entry point, not an exit point.

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I agree with the OP, the damage system is quite ridiculous. It's very annoying when I shoot a soldier at center-mass only for them to just flinch for less than half a second and then continue firing. The soldiers also don't go prone if you shoot at their legs as has been shown in one of the previous posts. They can keep on walking around fine even if you shoot them directly in the knees. And then, of course, if you shoot them in the legs enough they'll go from "walking around fine" to "instantly dead." It just makes no sense. It is certainly becoming more reminiscent of CoD, what with me always having to aim for a headshot to take enemies out quickly.

Do you know a game that did it better? I think all of the genre games I have ever played were based on hit-points.

Good solution migh be going to blood-loss system (could be reasonably easy to implement, it is still HP based system) + some likelyhood of fatal injury when shot in torso / head. I have no idea how difficult would it be to implement such a system.

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The damage system is definitely very bad ..... for instance describing the arma3 damage system is as simple as that of a mobile game of spaceships just point and shoot ships explode. :popup::soldier::yikes::icon_dj:

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Do you know a game that did it better? I think all of the genre games I have ever played were based on hit-points.

Good solution migh be going to blood-loss system (could be reasonably easy to implement, it is still HP based system) + some likelyhood of fatal injury when shot in torso / head. I have no idea how difficult would it be to implement such a system.

Whether or not another game has done it better is irrelevant to whether or not this game does it well.

On the other hand...

It is certainly becoming more reminiscent of CoD, what with me always having to aim for a headshot to take enemies out quickly.

This statement is kind of strange, given that Call of Duty is one of the higher lethality shooters out there.

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Since the latest 2 Updates playing as BLUFOR is like masochism.

OPFOR takes way too many bullets for effect. But on OPFOR side its quite ok to play. blufor goin down pretty realisticly i would say.

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Do you know a game that did it better?
Whether or not another game has done it better is irrelevant to whether or not this game does it well.

^What roshnak said.

This statement is kind of strange, given that Call of Duty is one of the higher lethality shooters out there.

I was mainly referring to the fact that headshots are encouraged in arcadey games like CoD, and I felt as if I were indirectly encouraged to make headshots in ARMA III, which differs drastically from traditional military convention. But yes, in CoD you're encouraged to make headshots to show off skill and get bonus points and achievements or whatever, whereas in ARMA III I felt encouraged to make headshots for practical purposes.

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ArmA's damage system should be encouraging us to aim for the shoulders and pelvis where there aren't any plates. But since the entire torso receives the same level of protection and leg damage doesn't do shit anymore (the most egregious regression in realism from A2), we are stuck with CoD-aiming.

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Note: I play mainly on BLUFOR. And sorry in advance for long post.

So, when I first started playing Arma 3, I thought the damage system was fine. As I've played, I feel like it has slowly gotten worse and worse, and finally now I put 4-6 rounds into an OPFOR at point blank with an MX rifle, and *while my bullets are impacting his body,* he proceeds to kill me in a single shot. I have no idea what is changing, but all I know is that slowly the system is breaking more and more. The release of 1.22 was when I started noticing weird things going on with damage, such as AI receiving many headshots at point blank with the EBR and not dying. Such issues are persisting, but body armor has continued to climb and climb and climb in effectiveness, to the point where an AI OPFOR who is laying down prone (and therefore bullets will travel through his entire body cavity from clavicle to crotch) will receive 8 rounds before proceeding to ice me with a single round, even though dense, lead 6.5mm rounds are impacting his body at well over two thousand feet per second.

I might go as far as to add that whether or not armor could in real life offer this type of protection is beside the point. The way AI responds to any sort of contact (with terminator like locking, followed by mechanically accurate fire) means that if the player is to have any sort of fighting chance against them, their only option is to kill the AI before they are even taking fire or being aimed at. And now that it takes half a magazine to kill an enemy, this is impossible.

As much as I hate to bring up "KDR," the ratio of kills to deaths is an important indicator of the quality of the mission and/or game. The ideal situation is to have the number and skill of the enemy be just high enough to require the player to focus and play very hard to complete the mission. Ideally (if the player is skilled with a weapon, resourceful in terms of cover, and plays their hardest), the player should not die once. If they die a few times the mission is not a total failure. But all this must be put into perspective: you don't get a second chance in real life. You get shot and die, that's it.

Now obviously it's a video game and we can bend the rules. You can have multiple lives, etc. But a *truly* good game/mission should at least allow the player to have a chance to survive throughout.

Once a mission falls apart and the players begin dieing a lot, the sense of self-preservation is lost and the players cease to be cautious; they are wasteful with ammo and clumsy when peeking around corners. The game becomes grindy. The player steps out of their computer and realizes they are just mashing buttons in frustration on their computer. The magical suspension of disbelief is gone. They get frustrated when they die, and run right into the action only to get killed again.

As a moderately experienced Zeus, I can say I have seen this a lot, in missions both of my own and by others.

But returning to the original topic. Yes, in real life both sides may be matched in technology and/or skill. But remember - when it all boils down we are still just playing a video game. And in a video game, if the odds are completely even, it's not fun.

Imagine if in any game franchise that revolves around a single main "super" character (Halo, Dead Space, Deus Ex, etc) the player's character was only as powerful as the average enemy. Imagine if every single Covenant, Necromorph or Spec Ops soldier was equal to you in power and skill, resulting in exactly a 50% chance of victory.

I'll tell you what, you would not be playing that game for very long. Because part of the fun requires a strong fighting chance. A mission can be chaotic, intense, difficult, etc. But if the player has their game face on and fights as hard as they can, it should be possible for them to win. As soon as the game becomes one giant russian roulette about seeing who can mash the trigger faster than the AI, and the outcome of said confrontation often resulted in the frustratingly unfair death of the player, all is lost.

Arma is not there yet. Combat over range is, although still sometimes frustrating, generally works well. The main shortcomings that are showing up appear mainly in close quarters, when AI sustains volumes of fire that would only be expected at very long range, when bullet velocity has dropped significantly. Fighting within cities has become more and more frustrating. The lack of AI response when taking a round is perhaps one of the worst issues. True, a single bullet will most likely not kill a human instantaneously. But the intense trauma of being shot should cause unconsciousness, loss of accuracy and focus (AI can be shot in the chest and keep his aim dead on target), bleeding out, fleeing, tripping/falling, etc. An AI standing up straight and still should not be able to hold this position as 3 oz of lead impact his body at well over two thousand feet per second. Whatever the solution, fixing the current issues will once again make the gunplay in arma great, and I'll step out of my vehicles to enjoy some good rifle combat.

Cheers.

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While the damage system obviously needs work in alot of areas, this --

(AI can be shot in the chest and keep his aim dead on target)

-- is not true. It used to be true, yes. But a few months ago a behaviour was introduced whereby an AI unit will momentarily lose focus after being shot. He must now take a couple of seconds to re-acquire the target before his shots start hitting it again. His rate of fire does not change, which is obviously an issue, but there has at least been some improvement in their response to being shot, insufficient though it may still be.

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Just a question: What difficultie are you guys playing on? Extended armor etc?

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Heh, even with extended armour I'm feeling a little bit (I'll submit that to The Understatement of the Centuryâ„¢ contest) too weak. Still get killed by some pretty silly shots.

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> and finally now I put 4-6 rounds into an OPFOR at point blank with an MX rifle

Could you please send me PM with repro mission. For me it is 2-3.

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> and finally now I put 4-6 rounds into an OPFOR at point blank with an MX rifle

Could you please send me PM with repro mission. For me it is 2-3.

I tried it and it is right now with MX 2 or 3 shots is enough. I wonder if it would be possible to change the animations?

For example: Shot in the legs = Slow motion with mild lameness.

For example: Shot in the arms = The weapon dropped, IA has to return to grab the gun and lower accuracy when using the weapon.

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Keep in mind that for MP regular is default and used by 99% of the server (as the default cannot be changed..) and has by default extended armor..

	class regular
{
	class Flags
	{
		Armor=1;

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I am sometimes wondering if the server itself is causing these problems. I am often seeing issues where sounds will not occur immediately from a weapon in a firefight, and then happening a few seconds after (like the sound lags way the heck out). It could be part of the issue.

Because recently, I went to test out the weapons as soon as the Virtual Arsenal came out, and I was surprised to see that weapons were behaving quite nicely, mostly only requiring ~2-4 shots (depending on the weapon, distance and armor). However, playing in a multiplayer server I literally put an entire magazine (with at least an 80% accuracy rate) into an AI at point blank, only to have him swivel and shoot me in the head, killing me instantly.

2-4 shots isn't bad at all, but it's the combination of possible server issues (having to shoot way more rounds for it to register), the AI's lack of response (such as flinching harder when shot, running away when being shot, etc) and the AI's terminator like skills (aim seemingly unaffected by stamina, unaffected by weapon sway, headshot accuracy, etc) is what makes this so frustrating.

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I am sometimes wondering if the server itself is causing these problems. I am often seeing issues where sounds will not occur immediately from a weapon in a firefight, and then happening a few seconds after (like the sound lags way the heck out). It could be part of the issue.

Because recently, I went to test out the weapons as soon as the Virtual Arsenal came out, and I was surprised to see that weapons were behaving quite nicely, mostly only requiring ~2-4 shots (depending on the weapon, distance and armor). However, playing in a multiplayer server I literally put an entire magazine (with at least an 80% accuracy rate) into an AI at point blank, only to have him swivel and shoot me in the head, killing me instantly.

2-4 shots isn't bad at all, but it's the combination of possible server issues (having to shoot way more rounds for it to register), the AI's lack of response (such as flinching harder when shot, running away when being shot, etc) and the AI's terminator like skills (aim seemingly unaffected by stamina, unaffected by weapon sway, headshot accuracy, etc) is what makes this so frustrating.

I'll tell you something about the damage system arma3 and I am no expert on anything of Me, that we clearly understand or expect you to understand the damage system is in Alpha version. And if you can not change for technical reasons RV4 engine .... then bad luck

Sorry if it is not well understood what I write everything is translated with google translator

Edited by Metralla

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;2733908']keep in mind that for mp regular is default and used by 99% of the server (as the default cannot be changed..) and has by default extended armor..

	class regular
{
	class flags
	{
		armor=1;

just a question: What difficultie are you guys playing on? Extended armor etc?

Extended armor only applies in singleplayer and only makes the player more difficult to kill.

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