Plans for a new/updated SOUND ENGINE in ARMA3??

[Brisse 78]

I have to agree on the excessive echo on some smal arms. In my opinion the recorded samples should be as dry and possible, and then echo should be added in realtime by digital sound processing while playing, so that it can change depending on enviroment. Sadly, Arma does not do that.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I think you guys mean Reverb rather than echo? Because, i don't hear multiple sounds after i fire ounce, but rather, the sound of one shot fading away. Some mods add echo, which in tern make it sound realistic, but not enough so because its part of the sound, and not the environment in which should be causing the sounds to bounce off, producing echo, or delay.

[Brisse 78]

Yes, reverb. Reverb and echo is pretty much the same thing though.

[miketim 20]

I guess I don't exactly mean echo, yeah reverb is the problem. I think there is what sounds like a bit of echo mixed in there, but regardless that big "wowowowo" at the end of the gunshots are way too strong and shouldn't be there. I agree with you Brisse that they should have some system to do that. tpM's mod "ACSE"? (I think) (Advanced combat sound enviroment) is going to add that type of proper stuff to the game I suggest you look at the thread if you haven't already. But yeah why didnt they do dry sound samples like arma 2, it sounded good enough no problems, Arma 3 sound has actual PROBLEMS, not just stuff that could be improved/isnt the best which is really sad :(

I guess we wait for something like tpM's mod or some other mod. Someone should at least make a mod that just removes these bad reverbs, other mods can be used later on when released for better sound effects or something.

-MikeTim

[the_demongod 31]

It looks pretty great. here's a link: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?169390-Advanced-Combat-Sound-Environment-(A3)-WiP-Thread

[maddogx 13]

Not sure if this was noticed back in April, but DnA has posted about possible future updates to the sound engine:

It is related to real-time cleaning up of reverberation on source samples. It's currently not used, but added in the engine as preparation for audio features we're investigating for DLC (meaning Arma 3 generally since it's an engine technology and we will not branch the platform in that way).

This was related to the addition of APO (audio processing object) effects in one of the dev branches. So there is hope.

[roberthammer 582]

Well dunno whats more sad , that the 5.1 isnt working properly still or those low volume sounds like trucks - they probably never heard a truck when it rides around

we can only hope for some audio improvement in that expansion ...

[Bee8190 10]

we can only hope for some audio improvement in that expansion ...

BI will be shooting themselves in foot if they plan to fix the sounds until after expansion. If I were new to the series and heard the sounds in vanilla, getting an expansion as a first thing would probably not be on my mind.

Unfortunately I feel this may as well be the case

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

we can only hope for some audio improvement in that expansion ...

BI will be shooting themselves in foot if they plan to fix the sounds until after expansion. If I were new to the series and heard the sounds in vanilla, getting an expansion as a first thing would probably not be on my mind.

Unfortunately I feel this may as well be the case

This forum requires that you wait 45 seconds between posts. Please try again in 27 seconds.

LOL what? :j:

[Tonci87 163]

"And, with regards to military equipment, it’s twice as important. Fortunately, we were lucky enough to do many recording sessions on shooting ranges, army bases, and airports, which meant we could get most of the samples in Arma 3 by ourselves."

We heard (read) similiar before the release of Arrowhead. See: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Ask_Bohemia_about_A2OA_-_Answers#Sound_samples_.2F_sound_params

The question is: what happened to these sounds, because they are obviously not in the game. Also, before A3's release there was a "report-in" about recording the sounds of a GM6 Lynx here in Hungary, but for some reason those sounds also went to the bin (or who knows where?).

Yeah I asked myself the same thing. They must have a huge Audio Database but they are not using it for Arma....

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Not sure if this was noticed back in April, but DnA has posted about possible future updates to the sound engine:

This was related to the addition of APO (audio processing object) effects in one of the dev branches. So there is hope.

I'm actually a little curious as to why some of the more simple things such as sounds, were changed so dramatically from the Pre-Alpha arma 3. For example they had the showcase for E3, and the Strider GMG was shooting to show off muzzle flashes... The sound of it shooting then, sounds a ton much better AND realistic than it does currently in my opinion.

[2nd ranger 282]

Agreed, the HMG and GMG in

sound alot better than they do now. The HMG is only subtly different, but the GMG is markedly better in the video. Another example of a sound that has been 'improved' is the AAF pistol, which in my opinion just sounds horrible now.

[Tonci87 163]

Agree.

[taumargin 13]

That wouldn't be much of a performance cost. It will cost only sound channels but any sound dev could manage that very easy. As far as different room/outside effects are concerned, there's heaps of fx that are low cpu that developers can use. It just takes actual sounds, time and effort.

The many existing sound mods have to use scripts to trigger their sounds, that is more cpu intensive.

I doubt BIS will improve it. Arma3 is just a product for DLC and content now.

Thanks for replying zeep,

Wouldn't the addition of a reverb/echo simulation increase the amount of processing? (not the audio trigger type aka JSRS/SOS) Like a typical VST/RTAS type audio plugin. I'm not clued up at all on the coding scripting side of things, but when I drop reverbs into projects it eats my processor big time. If i know anything about Arma everyone wants better performance :D

This Audio Occlusion thing must be a good thing though? Any Ideas on how this works?

Thanks

[enex 11]

I haven't really realized but this is badass:

So this is Jan Dusek on the Merkava with boom mic?I would love to hear more

from him but damn some developers aren't active on the forums : (

[Smurf 12]

Thanks for replying zeep,

Wouldn't the addition of a reverb/echo simulation increase the amount of processing? (not the audio trigger type aka JSRS/SOS) Like a typical VST/RTAS type audio plugin. I'm not clued up at all on the coding scripting side of things, but when I drop reverbs into projects it eats my processor big time. If i know anything about Arma everyone wants better performance :D

This Audio Occlusion thing must be a good thing though? Any Ideas on how this works?

Thanks

Doing it at engine level would make it more "light".

Audio Occlusion? Go play Arma 1. I'm sure it worked there; Not so sure on A2.

And despite the huge improvements made on some audio areas I still agree with my "early on this thread" me:

Default sounds should be, at least, at soundmods standards.

It is something that have a HUGE impact on immersion and gameplay, among all technical things in A3, sure it is the most lacking one.

A3 it's not up to industry's or the game itself standards. Battles sound boring and lifeless. What's the point of having such a big map and nothing happening over there (if you know what I mean...)?

[2nd ranger 282]

So this is Jan Dusek on the Merkava with boom mic?

This illustrates perfectly what is so frustrating about the current state of sounds in Arma 3. If BIS engineers really are recording weapons at ranges, if they really are recording tanks and other vehicles, what has happened to these sounds by the time they are put in the game? It's like they've been mixed down to a point where they no longer sound like the real thing. One main problem is that everything is too quiet. The sound of a helicopter or a tank engine or a 30mm cannon drops off to nothing after a few hundred metres. This is exactly the same problem Arma 2 had, but worse. Although almost all weapon sounds in Arma 2 were unforgivably terrible, increasing the volume would have helped. Arma 3 features significantly better sound samples, but they're too quiet to be heard properly.

The radio protocols are pretty excellent now, and alot of ambient sounds are good, but theres so much immersion being lost due to these weird sound engine problems and bugs. Not to mention some drastic differences in sample quality from one weapon system to the next.

Edited June 6, 2014 by 2nd Ranger

[big_t 1]

I believe lack of reverb and sound bouncing has a lot to do with with static feeling of the sound scape now. When an intense firefight is happening say 600m away, in vanilla Arma 3, it just sound like a bunch of normal gunshots with the volume turned down.

When I see real life battle footage the sound of distant gunshots sounds kind of like pitter patter as the noise bounces off valleys and such. The JSRS and SoS sound mods seem to add this effect and it really gives a sense of realism.

Also the gun noises are all very similar throughout the range of weapons it seems. With arma 2 at least you could listen and say "yep thats an akm or thats a FAL" In arma 3 I'm having a hard time differentiating even between 6.5 and 5.56 calibres.

T

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I believe lack of reverb and sound bouncing has a lot to do with with static feeling of the sound scape now. When an intense firefight is happening say 600m away, in vanilla Arma 3, it just sound like a bunch of normal gunshots with the volume turned down.

When I see real life battle footage the sound of distant gunshots sounds kind of like pitter patter as the noise bounces off valleys and such. The JSRS and SoS sound mods seem to add this effect and it really gives a sense of realism.

Also the gun noises are all very similar throughout the range of weapons it seems. With arma 2 at least you could listen and say "yep thats an akm or thats a FAL" In arma 3 I'm having a hard time differentiating even between 6.5 and 5.56 calibres.

T

Yep... Yep... and than not quite. On the last part, it depends on what your comparing them to. For example, MX Vs. Katiba. They sound different, and its easy to tell ounce you listen good enough. MK20 Vs. Katiba or MX. Completely different. MK20 Vs. TRG, now that i can understand. For some reason i sometimes fail to recognize the TRG or the MK20. They fire the same round, 5.56, and are a pain to tell which is which.

[taumargin 13]

Doing it at engine level would make it more "light".

Audio Occlusion? Go play Arma 1. I'm sure it worked there; Not so sure on A2.

And despite the huge improvements made on some audio areas I still agree with my "early on this thread" me:

A3 it's not up to industry's or the game itself standards. Battles sound boring and lifeless. What's the point of having such a big map and nothing happening over there (if you know what I mean...)?

If a tree falls and there's nobody there...;)

Is Sound/audio Occlusion a mathematical script to determine how sound should be reduced in amplitude for an object/s in its path or is it a series of audio effects to simulate audio waves affected by an object/s in its path? Such as a Resonance, Low pass filter, bandwidth filter, delays, distortion.....? Or both? Is what I meant :D

[Brisse 78]

Taumargin I belive it is both of those.

[enex 11]

MK20 I feel like it lacks the punch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt6qkKAkEC8

(skip towards end)

And compare it to

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

I think the main point is. You have guys working creating sound mods as just a hobbie after they come home from a hard days work, and doing a better job Than the people who actually get paid to do it.

The people getting paid to do it, have budgets ,time, resources and yet they're not putting out as good immersive quality is that?

Anyone that has used ace, jsrs , or SOS,knows they will never use vanilla arma sounds. And anyone using vanilla sounds only has no idea what they're missing. It changes the game, gets your heart racing when in a fire fight.

[2nd ranger 282]

MK20 I feel like it lacks the punch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt6qkKAkEC8

(skip towards end)

And compare it to

I think there's too much bass going on in the Mk20 sound for a 5.56. You're right about lacking punch; I think most of the gun shots are not sharp enough. The Mk20 in particular sounds kind of like a dull thud.

Also, I'm fairly certain that the Mk20 sound is the BREN rifle from Arma 2's ACR DLC, just with added bass and other things that A3 mixes in with gunshots. Incidentally, it was also claimed before release of the ACR DLC that BIS engineers had been to a shooting range to record most of the ACR weapons, along with pictures of them doing it. But again, the end product was disappointing, due to whatever weird mixing goes on in their sound department. The BREN ended up sounding almost exactly like the default M16, which is to say that it sounded as if it was being fired in a plastic barrel half full of water.

Edited June 7, 2014 by 2nd Ranger

[enex 11]

I think there's too much bass going on in the Mk20 sound for a 5.56. You're right about lacking punch; I think most of the gun shots are not sharp enough. The Mk20 in particular sounds kind of like a dull thud.

I agree.I'm not a expert at this, I just listen by the ear.

I found great sample: http://soundfxcenter.com/download-sound/fn-f2000-firing-sound-effect/ (click on play icon)

Would that be better in your opinion than arma Mk20 (fn 2000) sound?

Looked up rifles in ACR expansions.Is that the one named cz 705 (or something similar?)

That one sound really similar to Mk.

I feel like someone should make gun sound comparison between real life shots and arma shots.

Edited June 7, 2014 by enex

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I agree.I'm not a expert at this, I just listen by the ear.

I found great sample: http://soundfxcenter.com/download-sound/fn-f2000-firing-sound-effect/ (click on play icon)

Would that be better in your opinion than arma Mk20 (fn 2000) sound?

The MK-20 sounds like a beefed up M-16 from Arma 2, which doesn't really sound like a gunshot really. I agree with you. But the MK-20 is not the Bren. The Bren is the CZ-805 Assault rifle with variants. The MK-20 is the FN-2000 or FS-2000... cant remember which.