Is the game dumbed down?

[nettrucker 142]

This thread allows community members to express their frustrations. I personally don't agree with many of the comments posted here but you cant deny the passion people have for trying to improve the ARMA series. It doesn't hurt to let people vent.

This!!!!!

It's the passion for this game which makes people rant and defend. Even If you post constructive criticism you're a whiner and moaner. You defend the game you're considered a fanboy. So what? Definitely ArmA 3 must be different from what some people expected it to be.

Edited September 21, 2013 by nettrucker

[NeuroFunker 11]

there are tons of thread like this, why don't mod morph this one with another?

[David77 10]

The same "frustrations" & point of views have been expressed enough. Over & over. This thread is stagnant & has become one big circle**** now.

Person A thinks the games dumbed down because of things like the medical system & turn speed. Person B thinks it's not a big deal. What else is to be discussed? Or rather what else can be discussed now in the thread deemed "Is the game dumbed down"?

[Harbinger2456 10]

This thread needs to be closed. It's going nowhere & can lead to nothing but arguments. What good can come out of this thread? There aren't any. Only "bad" things can come out of this thread. Why is it still open?

Because arguing and debating are what forums are all about. If you don't like it, or don't have anything to debate, you should depart. I love how the fanboys want to close all the threads. Come on guys, debate! What are you afraid of?

[dmarkwick 261]

33 pages of the same 3 points is obviously not enough debating to decide this all-important question :)

[-ghost-tf 12]

33 pages of the same 3 points is obviously not enough debating to decide this all-important question :)

Those 3 points have been discussed to the death a while ago, but some people on this forum are very.. and I mean VERY good at flamebaiting. By ignoring everything that has been said, posting something unreasonable and causing the whole discussion to go in circles.

But everything that needed to be said, has already been covered multiple times, and its now up to the devs wether they adress these points or ignore them.

I will still mention the medical system every now and then, just incase the devs forget about it :P

[chortles 263]

Considering that RiE specifically addressed it earlier, and metalcraze characterized his characterization of the ETA as "never", it wasn't forgotten... :p

[David77 10]

Because arguing and debating are what forums are all about. If you don't like it, or don't have anything to debate, you should depart. I love how the fanboys want to close all the threads. Come on guys, debate! What are you afraid of?

If you read the entire thread, you would see I did debate. I don't consider debating as going in circles, stating the same exact things over & over, bringing up no new & valid points.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

... its now up to the devs wether they adress these points or ignore them.

You think this thread has the devs attention? I think they use the feedback tracker instead. I don't think the devs visit this ginormous argument that's called a thread, to evaluate what improvements need to happen. Also, what flamebaiting is there? The same exact topics have been brought up over and over. It doesn't take flamebaiting to cause the thread to go in circles.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

Rename this thread to "Medical System Part #" because that seems to be all the dumbed down part.

+1

Exactly. So how can the game as a whole be "dumbed Down"? I don't think some members know what it means for a game to be "dumbed down".

Edited September 21, 2013 by David77

[-ghost-tf 12]

+1

Exactly. So how can the game as a whole be "dumbed Down"? I don't think some members know what it means for a game to be "dumbed down".

This post is the perfect example of what I mean with "Ignoring everything that has already been said, as a result causing the thread to go in circles"

cya :)

[David77 10]

This post is the perfect example of what I mean with "Ignoring everything that has already been said, as a result causing the thread to go in circles"

cya :)

Who would have thought someone would ignore what they've already read over & over. However, by your logic, if we do ignore those things, it causes the thread to go in circles? Makes 0 sense. Why would i want to give my attention to things that have been discussed & argued about repeatadly... in the same exact thread at that?

/boggled

Edited September 21, 2013 by David77

[Variable 322]

there are tons of thread like this, why don't mod morph this one with another?

The same "frustrations" & point of views have been expressed enough. Over & over. This thread is stagnant & has become one big circle**** now.

Person A thinks the games dumbed down because of things like the medical system & turn speed. Person B thinks it's not a big deal. What else is to be discussed? Or rather what else can be discussed now in the thread deemed "Is the game dumbed down"?

Do you guys always "help" moders or just when you want to close threads you don't like?

[ric 1]

Is the game dumbed down?

this assumes the game existed in a state of upwardly intellectual to begin with ... ;)

[David77 10]

Do you guys always "help" moders or just when you want to close threads you don't like?

Neither. I support closing any pointless thread. Especially when the subject can only lead to uncivil debates and/or going in circles. Believe me... it has nothing to do with helping the mods. As I don't even agree with most of the things ... << is where I'll just stop :).

Edited September 21, 2013 by David77

[Phantom Six 25]

Neither. I support closing any pointless thread. Especially when the subject can only lead to uncivil debates and/or going in circles. Believe me... it has nothing to do with helping the mods. As I don't even agree with most of the things ... << is where I'll just stop :).

Do you consider people voicing out their concerns pointless? It's not. As long as publicly calling people out and attacking them is avoided, the matter will be fine. The community has the rights to voice their concerns.

[Harbinger2456 10]

This post is the perfect example of what I mean with "Ignoring everything that has already been said, as a result causing the thread to go in circles"

cya :)

LMAO! Exactly, here we go again!

[rfxcasey 1]

Haven't been around the Arma scene forever but have been playing Arma 2 for quite a long time. I'll say this, I am thoroughly enjoying Arma 3 and love most of what BIS has done. I don't think the new inventory system was necessary nor does it seem to add to the experience of the sim. Having to go into individual vests and whatnot just seems a bit tedious but whatever I'm getting used to it. Apart from that, I'd have to say that the improvements, especially in gunplay, far outweigh any negatives so far, at least in my opinion. Once the sim matures it will be the new standard. I know folks will complain about certain stuff because well lets face it, its not Arma 2, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I feel what people should be more focused on is the fact that BIS have, when so many others have not, keep the overall feel of Arma 2 alive in 3. So many companies deviate so far from the core of their games in sequels that they aren't even recognizable anymore. I personally don't have much of anything to grip about and it all could have gone terribly wrong like in so many other titles. I usually try to be very objective and have to say as a whole BIS has done a fantastic job. So many release version of games/sim these days are more like alphas so it was nice to see the Arma 3 alpha felt more like an early release. With that in mind, what they have so far is heads and tails beyond what would have been expected and with time it will only get better, so to be this far ahead of the game at this early stage is wonderfully refreshing in a world of crap that is being produced as of late. I really have to take my hat of to them and I don't usually give that kind of praise without it being thoroughly warranted.

The new graphic engine is just the icing on the cake, the overall package so far is extraordinary.

Edited September 22, 2013 by rfxcasey

[NeuroFunker 11]

rename this: running in circles thread.

[rfxcasey 1]

rename this: running in circles thread.

Your sig is borked, resize it.;)

[SludgeDread 10]

As far as I can see the thread has run in circles because a bunch of posters have tried, rather unsuccessfully, to explain why in their opinion they are concerned about various game mechanics in their current state and it's been denied, explained away and argued with at every turn. Apparently repeatedly trying to explain and justify their viewpoint is unacceptable but repeatedly telling them it's better this way, to ignore it or fix it themselves is ok. :confused:

I first started playing these games with OFP over 10 years ago but I don't yet have a strong opinion on III as I've not played it enough. However, as much as there are many great steps forward early impressions lead me to understand and even share the concerns of the so-called "whiners" that there are also steps back from standards set by the series to date. Although I would like to think its unfinished state means progress will be made in these areas by BIS (so negativity can be a little excessive), shouting them down is not helpful at all. I don't at all understand how it can be accepted that a game is unfinished, yet argue things are fine, working as intended and people have no right to be unhappy with current state.

It's probably beyond help now but as for "close this thread" etc, just don't post in it if you don't see the point of it. Not hard.

Edited September 22, 2013 by SludgeDread
grammar

[dmarkwick 261]

As far as I can see the thread has run in circles because a bunch of posters have tried, rather unsuccessfully, to explain why in their opinion they are concerned about various game mechanics in their current state and it's been denied, explained away and argued with at every turn. Apparently repeatedly trying to explain and justify their viewpoint is unacceptable but repeatedly telling them it's better this way, to ignore it or fix it themselves is ok. :confused:

I first started playing these games with OFP over 10 years ago but I don't yet have a strong opinion on III as I've not played it enough. However, as much as there are many great steps forward early impressions lead me to understand and even share the concerns of the so-called "whiners" that there are also steps back from standards set by the series to date. Although I would like to think its unfinished state means progress will be made in these areas by BIS (so negativity can be a little excessive), shouting them down is not helpful at all. I don't at all understand how it can be accepted that a game is unfinished, yet argue things are fine, working as intended and people have no right to be unhappy with current state.

It's probably beyond help now but as for "close this thread" etc, just don't post in it if you don't see the point of it. Not hard.

The thread's topic is actually whether the game has been actively dumbed down, not that all concerns are negligible.

I just spent about 2 hours playing a testbed DAC scenario and I certainly didn't feel like anything was dumbed down. I got my ass kicked often & decisively :) I observed how an AI group (actually I think it was 2 AI groups in at a coincidental waypoint), when surprised by the appearance of an enemy tank, initially got decimated, then withdrew to better cover. From there, the AT units were able to make a decisive retaliation.

[Phantom Six 25]

Removing a once more complex feature and replacing it with an ultra simplier one is considered... "dumbed down".

Of course there's some nice features added to ARMA 3 like being able to change optics and such, but then there's also a few points it has, that are dumbed down as you have seen a certain system already.

[GefrBachmann 1]

I got to confess that I was brought to Arma by DayZ because i kinda liked the idea. Then I got Combined ops and played that mod for a few hours, coming to the result that it is cmpletely boring bullcrap. It ended with me buying Arma III the second day the Alpha was out (took time to transfer the money to paypal :) ) because of the Arma experiance. I am a bit disappointed for I expected more content and a better AI but I still am hopefull that this will be sorted out until 2014.

[Pac Man 10]

rename this: running in circles thread.

Yes but people like to express the same things over and over and over and over... people have rights! :o

/winks

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

The community has the rights to voice their concerns.

Yes we have rights to voice our concerns. We also have the right to bang our heads against the wall over and over and over and over again. That doesn't make it a wise thing to do. The concerns in this thread have been worn out to a laughable degree.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Pac Man

[-Coulum- 35]

The thread's topic is actually whether the game has been actively dumbed down, not that all concerns are negligible.

Yes, to me its not a question of whether the direction the game has taken is good or bad but simply whether features have been dumbed down from arma 2.

I will admit that its pushing it to say that the entire game as been dumbed down - like you say DMarkwick, the overall feel and play of the game is pretty much the same as arma 2, often even better. But that doesn't mean that every feature has maintained the level of realism/complexity that arma 2 had.

There are instances, which have been mentioned many times already, where the game has obviously been dumbed down and I don't see that as really being debatable. I just hate to see people refusing to even consider that the game may have some simplifications (ie. negative "improvements"/weakness for many). I know many critics will make it seem like the game is ruined by a few poorly implemented features - that is unfair. But to deny there are any weaknesses in the game or areas that need improvement, is just as poor if you ask me. Even the best games have areas that could use improvement.

And by the way this thread's circling is nothing compared to threads like this.

[dmarkwick 261]

Removing a once more complex feature and replacing it with an ultra simplier one is considered... "dumbed down".

Of course there's some nice features added to ARMA 3 like being able to change optics and such, but then there's also a few points it has, that are dumbed down as you have seen a certain system already.

Hmm. So no matter what new features are put in place, would you call the game dumbed down because some features might be simpler? It seems like a strictly one-way street to me :)

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Yes, to me its not a question of whether the direction the game has taken is good or bad but simply whether features have been dumbed down from arma 2.

I will admit that its pushing it to say that the entire game as been dumbed down - like you say DMarkwick, the overall feel and play of the game is pretty much the same as arma 2, often even better. But that doesn't mean that every feature has maintained the level of realism/complexity that arma 2 had.

There are instances, which have been mentioned many times already, where the game has obviously been dumbed down and I don't see that as really being debatable. I just hate to see people refusing to even consider that the game may have some simplifications (ie. negative "improvements"/weakness for many). I know many critics will make it seem like the game is ruined by a few poorly implemented features - that is unfair. But to deny there are any weaknesses in the game or areas that need improvement, is just as poor if you ask me. Even the best games have areas that could use improvement.

Yes, I am on record as having agreed that some features are lacking :) but as you rightly say that's a long way from saying the whole game is dumbed down.

And by the way this thread's circling is nothing compared to threads like this.

...or how about the crawling corpse that is this? :)