When is this game going to be good?

[suprememodder 11]

If I'm honest I'm not interested in players VS A.I, I've always thought that was a lame thing for Care Bears. What I wanted is to have proper structured online PVP missions where you need actual team work to attack or defend, maybe a survival mode like Dayz but without Zombies... just something! Instead it's 99.9% nothing. I have no idea why people love fighting the A.I so much, every single server I've joined that has done that has been boring as hell. The A.I are really dumb for one thing, I've not been killed by them once, just so easy to out smart, half the time I end up just waiting for them to all run out of the same door like idiots.... eurgh.

except in pvp, people behave even more dumbly than ai. at least with ai there is realism and consistency, and believable levels of unpredictability.

[r8gato 18]

Arma 3 is now my primary gaming time sink, so I really want the game to be the best it can be.

Stepping back from the minutiae of this debate, and generally speaking to scaramoosh's thoughts on the state of Arma 3, I have to agree. In it's current state, I really think it's a bad decision if BI sticks with it's Sept 12 release date. I wish they had the ability to push the release date out, work smarter and not harder, and fix the game breaking issues vs adding additional x,y,z content.

From BI's point of view, if they are trying to build on the current player base, the current state of the game is not good. Most of us are already invested, willing to overlook the ugliness in many cases, for those little nuggets of amazing experiences that I believe Arma is uniquely able to provide. For most gamers, on their way to DayZ Standalone, they are going to give Arma maybe a few days|hrs|sessions, before they stop in frustration, confusion, and lack of quick hitting fun. The number one showstopper being terrible performance and optimization. I have a beast machine, and the game makes my eyes bleed with the horrid frame rate issues at times. I think the various game review sites will give it a 'passing' grade just to be 'nice' and support what BI/Arma is trying to do. Thankfully. From the outside looking in, with no knowledge or context, I think the game would and should get ripped.

I will assume that most 'seasoned' Arma players will say 'who cares, let them go back to COD 9 or BF5, and leave us to our type of game'. That's fine, but that does not remove the burden on BI to put more emphasis on fixing the game's design to at least the modern equivalent of 'polished'. I think BI has really smart people working on the game. But, I also think they lack the personnel to finesse the game to where it should, and could, go.

Anyways, blah blah blah...

Looking forward to some epic moments with you all :)

[fujix 11]

Arma 3 is now my primary gaming time sink, so I really want the game to be the best it can be.

Stepping back from the minutiae of this debate, and generally speaking to scaramoosh's thoughts on the state of Arma 3, I have to agree. In it's current state, I really think it's a bad decision if BI sticks with it's Sept 12 release date. I wish they had the ability to push the release date out, work smarter and not harder, and fix the game breaking issues vs adding additional x,y,z content.

From BI's point of view, if they are trying to build on the current player base, the current state of the game is not good. Most of us are already invested, willing to overlook the ugliness in many cases, for those little nuggets of amazing experiences that I believe Arma is uniquely able to provide. For most gamers, on their way to DayZ Standalone, they are going to give Arma maybe a few days|hrs|sessions, before they stop in frustration, confusion, and lack of quick hitting fun. The number one showstopper being terrible performance and optimization. I have a beast machine, and the game makes my eyes bleed with the horrid frame rate issues at times. I think the various game review sites will give it a 'passing' grade just to be 'nice' and support what BI/Arma is trying to do. Thankfully. From the outside looking in, with no knowledge or context, I think the game would and should get ripped.

I will assume that most 'seasoned' Arma players will say 'who cares, let them go back to COD 9 or BF5, and leave us to our type of game'. That's fine, but that does not remove the burden on BI to put more emphasis on fixing the game's design to at least the modern equivalent of 'polished'. I think BI has really smart people working on the game. But, I also think they lack the personnel to finesse the game to where it should, and could, go.

Anyways, blah blah blah...

Looking forward to some epic moments with you all :)

Well written and I agree. Specially with the part that we, the older fans coming from previous games will "overlook" and "live with" the state of the game jsut because there really isnt anything else there that can provide a similar experience. And also that we know the potential and I guess that we all still hope that in the future this game can become what it should be when released. This in regards to both performance and content.

I mean seriously what is there to do in this game out of the box? The showcases and some MP scenarios that tbh lack replayability, because they dont really take advantage of the possibilities that is the sandbox. Why is there no warfare mission for example? Even if vanilla warfare in A2 wasnt all that glorious compared to for example Benny Edition, it was something! It was a dynamic mission that had replay value. Yes the community will create awesome missions we all know that, but that is no excuse not to ship more mission content on release. Why is it that the community can create so awesome missions and BIS not? Why do we always have to depend on the community?

When user missions are far more advanced and have so many more advanced features something is wrong imho.

But hey...we got firedrills so I guess tis all good...

Edited September 2, 2013 by fujix

[Varanon 892]

I mean seriously what is there to do in this game out of the box?

I guess in thie scase, it's "Community to the rescue" again. Since there is already a lot of community content on the workshop, the "argumentation" will be: Well, there's a ton of content ready on the Workshop, why should BIS do it ?

Of course, that doesn't really cut it, but that's going to be the excuse.

[Smurf 12]

I guess in thie scase, it's "Community to the rescue" again. Since there is already a lot of community content on the workshop, the "argumentation" will be: Well, there's a ton of content ready on the Workshop, why should BIS do it ?

Of course, that doesn't really cut it, but that's going to be the excuse.

Because A1\2 releases were really awesome with all that official content who everybody played. :j:

At least they're making official what was known by the community last time and providing a more solid base game (except for MP) from the start.

[suprememodder 11]

modders doing the work of devs is fine, but not when it's essential things that everyone wants but the devs chose not to implement. hence the argument to push back so it can be implemented officially by the devs. hopefully custom content can be co-opted by the devs, because i see many of them as essential and i don't want to have to download 50 mods just to play on a server.

[progamer 14]

modders doing the work of devs is fine, but not when it's essential things that everyone wants but the devs chose not to implement. hence the argument to push back so it can be implemented officially by the devs. hopefully custom content can be co-opted by the devs, because i see many of them as essential and i don't want to have to download 50 mods just to play on a server.

Modders will always find a way to do something better.

[pharoah 65]

Modders will always find a way to do something better.

yeah but not having bipods in an infantry focused 'almost-simulator' is pretty bad. MGs and sniper rifles (two important weapons for standard infantry combat) both rely on some form of weapon resting for accuracy. I've tried firing an MG standing up (both the Mag 51 and F89 Minimi) and I can tell you the vertical recoil on that thing was horrible and my rounds went all over the place (had a guy supporting my arms so I didn't accidentally spray across the range rather than down it! lol).

I don't mind if modders IMPROVE on something...but not when they have to DEVELOP it to start with. Thats poor form. ARMA 3 is such an awesome game but there's still so many crappy aspects which a lot of us overlook for the greater good eg. lack of bipods/resting, horrible menu system, etc etc which should really have been fixed by the devs PRIOR to release.

[dav 22]

If I'm honest I'm not interested in players VS A.I, I've always thought that was a lame thing for Care Bears. What I wanted is to have proper structured online PVP missions where you need actual team work to attack or defend, maybe a survival mode like Dayz but without Zombies... just something! Instead it's 99.9% nothing. I have no idea why people love fighting the A.I so much, every single server I've joined that has done that has been boring as hell. The A.I are really dumb for one thing, I've not been killed by them once, just so easy to out smart, half the time I end up just waiting for them to all run out of the same door like idiots.... eurgh.

Clearly your not playing on expert difficulty, if you think the ai is dumb. I do agree that interface needs to be redone, multiplayer game modes that are simple and straight forward wouldn't hurt either. I had a few online experiences that left me so frustrated I wanted to kill someone, for example, sitting in choppers that only pilots can fly, running 1 mile to get to weapon load out, being transported around with no sense of purpose lol.

[suprememodder 11]

Modders will always find a way to do something better.

if that were the case, threads like this wouldn't exist. there is a way to do anything better, it's just not practical for non-developers. time, resource, budget. and the fact that officially developed mechanics have native and inherent support. mods go dead and they lack qa.

[Varanon 892]

Because A1\2 releases were really awesome with all that official content who everybody played. :j:

Ah, so the idea is if you can't make good content, don't make any content ? That's some nice "argument" there

[metalcraze 290]

Because A1\2 releases were really awesome with all that official content who everybody played. :j:

I always played official content. It's part of the game after all. Some of it was good, some of it was terrible.

Doesn't mean they should not improve and just charge you money for nothing.

At least they're making official what was known by the community last time and providing a more solid base game (except for MP) from the start.

I'm sorry what? ArmA3 thus far is inferior in almost everything to ArmA2 and 'solid base game (except for MP)' - have you forgotten it has no SP either but atrocious handholding-heavy CoD-like showcases apart from having a ton of features simply cut out?

[WalkerDown 1]

After "it's alpha... fixes will come", it's the turn of: "it's released, the modders will fix it".

The reality is that this game is pretty like what it was the first day of the alpha, you have to accept it coz it won't change, if you think that it will turn magically into something else (better) you'll better wait for ArmA4 .. if there would be any ArmA4 at all.

[eXpouk 10]

Theres a severe lack of content at the moment and it will need a lot more before people switch. I know a lot of people aren't a fan of the futuristic weapons/units/vehicles and would rather it have modern day NATO, Russian, Insurgent forces so they won't switch until these are in the game.

[pharoah 65]

lol can you imagine if DICE released BF without weapon resting or something like that?? internet meltdown!! lol

[antnxx 1]

The amount of mods I'm currently having to even make this game a little more enjoyable is staggering. Almost about 1gb of mods that are fixing - Terrain, AI, Movement, Action menus etc. I mean - I understand that this is a sandbox game but maybe it's intentional for bis to create a game that relies so heavily on mods that people with short attention span and who are immature will just drop the experience - so more mature audience can only play this game - who have time and patience to acquire and test all those mods?

[clydefrog 3]

The amount of mods I'm currently having to even make this game a little more enjoyable is staggering. Almost about 1gb of mods that are fixing - Terrain, AI, Movement, Action menus etc. I mean - I understand that this is a sandbox game but maybe it's intentional for bis to create a game that relies so heavily on mods that people with short attention span and who are immature will just drop the experience - so more mature audience can only play this game - who have time and patience to acquire and test all those mods?

Yeah, that must be the reason why it has so many problems.

[zeep 3]

Agreed with OP's sentiment, and Pharao made a truckload of good suggestions. I've played this series since OFP and the direction a new player gets is going nowhere.

- This game needs an offline Loadout manager. Let me select my preferred weapon loadout from the get go. I'm sick and tired of joining a game and have to look at a crate, look at a crate, look at a crate. I want to join a game and have my preferred loadout ready. Backpack and everything.

- PvP gamemodes along with a multiplayer browser that supports, and possibly even defaults, to PvP. Along with coop etc.

Personally i'm sick of coop, humans vs ai.

Standing still doing a funky dance while changing weapons has to go.

Scrolling through menu's also has to go.

Hopefully those new mods can light a fire under some dev's chair and make both of those vanilla.

[liquidpinky 11]

This game needs an offline Loadout manager. Let me select my preferred weapon loadout from the get go. I'm sick and tired of joining a game and have to look at a crate, look at a crate, look at a crate. I want to join a game and have my preferred loadout ready. Backpack and everything.

Just add VAS to Dyslexi's Paperdoll script mission and you are sorted for a proper loadout creation Mission. So much so that you can end up with rare launchers only seen in the Paperdoll menu.

Then save away for use in missions online, the majority of missions use VAS so you just have to stare at the Ammobox long enough to load in your prefered profile.

This is the sort of game that requires you put something into it to get something back, be it a little though or effort, if you are nothing but a taker then you won't enjoy it much.

[pharoah 65]

ARMA 3 - functional, yes....polished, no.

Its about 85% there I reckon (and no I have no scientific proof to back up that %) :)

[zukov 490]

Just add VAS to Dyslexi's Paperdoll script mission and you are sorted for a proper loadout creation Mission. So much so that you can end up with rare launchers only seen in the Paperdoll menu.

Then save away for use in missions online, the majority of missions use VAS so you just have to stare at the Ammobox long enough to load in your prefered profile.

This is the sort of game that requires you put something into it to get something back, be it a little though or effort, if you are nothing but a taker then you won't enjoy it much.

I bought this game on Steam, no at IKEA, if i have to create content by myself, at least i want better tools like visitor 4, 3d editor ect

[zeep 3]

Just add VAS to Dyslexi's Paperdoll script mission and you are sorted for a proper loadout creation Mission. So much so that you can end up with rare launchers only seen in the Paperdoll menu.

Then save away for use in missions online, the majority of missions use VAS so you just have to stare at the Ammobox long enough to load in your prefered profile.

This is the sort of game that requires you put something into it to get something back, be it a little though or effort, if you are nothing but a taker then you won't enjoy it much.

Yes i know Dyslexi's script mission and VAS but Arma would benefit from a simple integrated loadout menu that connects with the Profile menu.

Disregarding your snide remark about being a taker, i've been playing and actively working in and with mod teams for games since late 90-ies. Games that probably half the people here never played. From sound design to updating map hosting websites to actively playtesting. Doing my community duties with pride.

I know about putting in effort.

I also know about streamlining a product. This is where feedback is important.

There's no value in replies like, "This isn't COD", or, "Don't play Arma if you don't like xxx". There's no contribution there.

[liquidpinky 11]

Disregarding your snide remark about being a taker, i've been playing and actively working in and with mod teams for games since late 90-ies. Games that probably half the people here never played. From sound design to updating map hosting websites to actively playtesting. Doing my community duties with pride.

I know about putting in effort.

I also know about streamlining a product. This is where feedback is important.

There's no value in replies like, "This isn't COD", or, "Don't play Arma if you don't like xxx". There's no contribution there.

Wasn't meant as a dig at yourself, at those of that disposition in general.

The loadout thing would be a problem for missions where designers required set loadouts. But again it could be something properly incorperated into the game itself, like TAW view distance settings as well. They would make good features.

[Varanon 892]

Wasn't meant as a dig at yourself, at those of that disposition in general..

Geez, you mean, the people that just want to, like, play the game ? How dare they ?

Not everyone makes missions or addons, you know

[Smurf 12]

Ah, so the idea is if you can't make good content, don't make any content ? That's some nice "argument" there

There is content but no for release, which is more a milestone and a window of sales before the release of BF4, GTA5, COD and next gen consoles; of course, not the same public but you can get some people. Arma - as always - will be the game it was meant to be in about one year.

I'm sorry what? ArmA3 thus far is inferior in almost everything to ArmA2 and 'solid base game (except for MP)' - have you forgotten it has no SP either but atrocious handholding-heavy CoD-like showcases apart from having a ton of features simply cut out?

I can't go back to A2 no matter what, A3 feels much better in almost every sense and I'm pretty sure a good chunk of people feel the same way - and the game isn't even done yet! Is it perfect? Nope - the medical system in particular is something that I really miss - but at least I feel playing it and having much less frustration while doing so. If you don't see the giant potential the game has now more than ever, oh well.

Showcases? Who cares about them anyway?