When is this game going to be good?

[Varanon 892]

Who is wrong?

If you think that it's only the people expecting authentic behavior, then you are wrong. Because, as I said, it's also other people. You might not have meant it that way, but that's how I read your post. Apologies if it wasn't.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------

Totally agreed with Alwarren.

[-ghost-tf 12]

....

Nice post, sums up everything wrong with arma3 atm, and gamebreakers to many people I know.

Does anyone actually think ARMA III is a step backwards from ARMA? Vanilla, no mods and forget bugs (A3 is not released yet and very little trivial software is "complete" before a patch or two. I see A2 had tons fixed after release).

Yes.

[accapella 1]

Some of you guys obv. haven't played arma 2 back when it came out. It was so buggy it was unbelievable.

Arma 3 is a total upgrade on the engine side, the content though is lacking.

edit: this time all the content is deffo higher quality though and we've got best island so far.

[Alwarren 2765]

Some of you guys obv. haven't played arma 2 back when it came out. It was so buggy it was unbelievable..

I have. The 1.0 release in Germany. It doesn't matter. I wasn't talking about bugs. I was talking about deliberate choices made.

edit: this time all the content is deffo higher quality though and we've got best island so far.

That is also besides the point. The quality of the content is good. This is also part of the normal evolution, most games are better quality then their predecessor. I would have liked more vehicle interiors and moveable parts, like we had shortly with the doors opening on the cars.

But graphics are secondary compared to gameplay, and if you have issues with gameplay, then it doesn't matter if you are holding a 15k poly gun or a 10k poly gun.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Alwarren

[Varanon 892]

his time all the content is deffo higher quality

I heard that a lot, but the question is: In what respect ? Textures/polycounts ? features ?

And don't get me wrong, this is an honest question.

[windies 11]

I heard that a lot, but the question is: In what respect ? Textures/polycounts ? features ?

And don't get me wrong, this is an honest question.

From my perspective it's higher quality in the graphics department mostly, like Texture's for weapons and the quality of models and such. To me, quality is all inclusive, meaning that it includes not only graphics but game play, performance as well as aesthetics. I feel like the quality is there in terms of graphics, but not so much on the game play, performance or aesthetics. Things like lack of vehicle interiors, the FAK medical system, the movement system, lack of bipods and resting when they decided to jack the recoil up to the moon so it's impossible to take successive aimed shots at a target unless they entirely fill your scope, and overall performance issue's that still plague the game.

I want to love the game, but every time I play I run into a design choice or a recurring issue that just ruins the immersion or the experience for me in some way. I want to ignore it, but it's hard to ignore all these things spread throughout different area's within the game.

[sandman1980 18]

I said Wasteland???? I SAID: Benny Edition Warfare or Invade and Annex, or +DM4 by murcielago, etc.

Do you know this mods?

Wasteland is MiLSIM? ;) the truth is ARMA 3 doesn't have PVP gameplay made by devs stop have fun with your boring AI

[Varanon 892]

From my perspective it's higher quality in the graphics department mostly, like Texture's for weapons and the quality of models and such. To me, quality is all inclusive, meaning that it includes not only graphics but game play, performance as well as aesthetics. I feel like the quality is there in terms of graphics, but not so much on the game play, performance or aesthetics. Things like lack of vehicle interiors, the FAK medical system, the movement system, lack of bipods and resting when they decided to jack the recoil up to the moon so it's impossible to take successive aimed shots at a target unless they entirely fill your scope, and overall performance issue's that still plague the game.

I want to love the game, but every time I play I run into a design choice or a recurring issue that just ruins the immersion or the experience for me in some way. I want to ignore it, but it's hard to ignore all these things spread throughout different area's within the game.

Couldn't have said it any better. That is exactly my feeling as well, and exactly why I asked about the quality.

Tank interiors is one of those subjects. Quality would have been an interior for those tanks. Same with the doors on the Ifrit. I was totally thrilled when the doors were added, and then they were removed again because you couldn't throw in grenades. A valid point, of course, but if you could have thrown in grenades, THAT would have been the quality that would have made the game outstanding.

Note, I am not saying the assets are BAD. They are great, they look great, the sounds are so much better than in Arma 2. But still, beyond the natural evolution of texture sizes and polycounts, there's not really more "quality" to them than in Arma 2 or even OFP (whereas OFP actually HAD tank interiors, mind you).

(And yes, I like Altis too)

[zukov 483]

I said Wasteland???? I SAID: Benny Edition Warfare or Invade and Annex, or +DM4 by murcielago, etc.

Do you know this mods?

both are made by users

and warfare is a RTS than a real PVP/fps game mode

as far as today arma 3 will ship only with 2 SC mission and still with the atrocious lobby

[wolfflight 0]

Ok.... not going to keep reading more and more of the same....

Here is the simple fact. I have done tons of alphas and betas in my decades of game-playing.

If you bought the alpha or the beta and thought you were going to get a complete game then you are an idiot. Plain and simple. You do not belong in an alpha or a beta. That is why those are closed for more companies and they pick who they let in them.

Alphas and betas are for TESTING... they are for finding bugs... seeing what works... what doesn't and making modifications.

They are not for complete and finished product. They are not for you to enjoy. They are for you to really put the code to work and see where the problems and successes are.

Any complaint that does not take any of that into bearing has no value whatsoever. AT ALL. Period. End of story.

The fact is that BIS opened their doors to the public and let anyone who was willing to pay EARLY for the game, get access to the alpha, then the beta, and finally receive the full game. They already announced that we get full content early.

Seriously, it is not about fanboys arguing to support their favorite product, it is about the whiners who have no concept about what being and alpha-tester or beta-tester is about, that quite frankly should have kept their money in their wallets UNTIL the game was released.

You were told, when you purchased, that you were buying into a product that was in alpha/beta state when you purchased it. End of story. Period. Now quit whining.

[windies 11]

Ok.... not going to keep reading more and more of the same....

Here is the simple fact. I have done tons of alphas and betas in my decades of game-playing.

If you bought the alpha or the beta and thought you were going to get a complete game then you are an idiot. Plain and simple. You do not belong in an alpha or a beta. That is why those are closed for more companies and they pick who they let in them.

Alphas and betas are for TESTING... they are for finding bugs... seeing what works... what doesn't and making modifications.

They are not for complete and finished product. They are not for you to enjoy. They are for you to really put the code to work and see where the problems and successes are.

Any complaint that does not take any of that into bearing has no value whatsoever. AT ALL. Period. End of story.

The fact is that BIS opened their doors to the public and let anyone who was willing to pay EARLY for the game, get access to the alpha, then the beta, and finally receive the full game. They already announced that we get full content early.

Seriously, it is not about fanboys arguing to support their favorite product, it is about the whiners who have no concept about what being and alpha-tester or beta-tester is about, that quite frankly should have kept their money in their wallets UNTIL the game was released.

You were told, when you purchased, that you were buying into a product that was in alpha/beta state when you purchased it. End of story. Period. Now quit whining.

We are at the point where the game is going to be released and they've even dumped all of the final content for release into the dev branch. The excuse that "This is a Beta" is getting old because in a week it will be released.

If we were at this point back in say April when there was time to address things before launch, yeah I might agree with you. We're in September now and the game is a week away from release. I paid for feature's that I've now learned are cut, content that has been cut, the promise of a campaign at an unspecified future date and an overall generalization or sterilization of stock content for the purposes of quality that for all intents and purposes will not be there come launch. Trying to justify it just shows ignorance over principle at this point or the power of video game addiction.

[dale0404 5]

Windies, you didn't actually pay for content that was cut, you paid to take part in the Alpha / Beta and then get the full game.

[froggyluv 2130]

I paid for feature's that I've now learned are cut, content that has been cut, the promise of a campaign at an unspecified future date and an overall generalization or sterilization of stock content for the purposes of quality that for all intents and purposes will not be there come launch. Trying to justify it just shows ignorance over principle at this point or the power of video game addiction.

Alpha/Beta has always stated front and center that "You are participating in an unfinished product. Content and Technology are subject to be changed...."

like said, this is the reason most companies used closed testing. In Game 2 they were testing Dynamic Destruction -imagine the response had that been Open and we all had that door closed on us :p You may not like it but that's just the facts of life of running a business and if your prone to that type of disappointment, perhaps Alpha/Beta testing just isn't for you.

[windies 11]

Alpha/Beta has always stated front and center that "You are participating in an unfinished product. Content and Technology are subject to be changed...."

like said, this is the reason most companies used closed testing. In Game 2 they were testing Dynamic Destruction -imagine the response had that been Open and we all had that door closed on us :p You may not like it but that's just the facts of life of running a business and if your prone to that type of disappointment, perhaps Alpha/Beta testing just isn't for you.

Windies, you didn't actually pay for content that was cut, you paid to take part in the Alpha / Beta and then get the full game.

And to both of you I'm saying that in one week, that excuse will pretty much be irrelevant. The game will be released with what we have right now, and if you can say you are perfectly happy with the cut and paste content, simplified feature set, and general buggyness, then you either have extremely low standards or you have a cognitive/confirmation bias for anything with the words Bohemia Interactive on them. If you think I'm complaining about what we have in the Alpha or Beta rather than what we are going to have from a released product, you both are in some deep deep denial.

[Digital_Aura 1]

I think what I'm hearing is genuine and valid frustration, and while it is "just a beta" I can't help but also feel much of what Windies says is exactly how me and my clan feel. (And at least Windies can carry on an argument intelligently and politely).

[metalcraze 290]

I can't go back to A2 no matter what, A3 feels much better in almost every sense and I'm pretty sure a good chunk of people feel the same way - and the game isn't even done yet! Is it perfect? Nope - the medical system in particular is something that I really miss - but at least I feel playing it and having much less frustration while doing so. If you don't see the giant potential the game has now more than ever, oh well.

Well the game is done now. And look at those vehicles. Sure playing as infantry is smoother... until you encounter absolutely ridiculous superhuman abilities of soldiers. But having any kind of combined ops mission is boring since everybody has exactly the same vehicles and weapons on them.

I even bet people will be blowing up these "new" vehicles which will be friendly under low light / bad weather conditions since they are indistinguishable between blufor and opfor. Both visually and in loadouts.

Potential? There would've been potential if the game was a step forward not a giant leap back. You can't be sure it has the potential to ever be on par with ArmA2 with many features simply not being in the engine anymore.

Of course I don't doubt that ArmA3 is more appealing to people who just want to jump onto a random server and simply run n gun with enemies being exactly the same but wearing a different texture. After all they are whom ArmA3 is aimed at.

But a tactically rich realistic game it is not.

Showcases? Who cares about them anyway?

I certainly do (and I guess BIS too since they keep making them even though the results are absolutely terrible). I want a good SP content for once. But I guess it doesn't matter?

Edited September 4, 2013 by metalcraze

[swazi 10]

Any news on secops and ambient combat modules, or similar?

[dale0404 5]

@Windies.

I am not disagreeing with some of the things you have said, cutting and pasting content isn't the best way to go about things and there are other things that are missing from the sandbox that I really hoped to be in there.

The point I am making is that you didn't pay for any of the features / content that has been cut.

[froggyluv 2130]

And to both of you I'm saying that in one week, that excuse will pretty much be irrelevant. The game will be released with what we have right now, and if you can say you are perfectly happy with the cut and paste content, simplified feature set, and general buggyness, then you either have extremely low standards or you have a cognitive/confirmation bias for anything with the words Bohemia Interactive on them. If you think I'm complaining about what we have in the Alpha or Beta rather than what we are going to have from a released product, you both are in some deep deep denial.

Well Windies, you got me with your circular snare of logic :p Surely if I, or anyone else in the appreciation thread or any Joe that happens to just, really like the game, we are either poor simple creatures of no taste or too busy sucking the mighty teet of Bohemia...

Maybe some of us are gamers longer than most and have a very specific taste and /or we understand value at dollars spent/hours of enjoyment. I could list the many reasons why my priorities may be different than yours but I'll just leave it at already 500+ hours enjoyment for 30 bucks spent. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

I can't decide if I have low consumer standards or I am a BIS sycophant. Is anyone able to help me out & tell me?

[windies 11]

@Windies.

I am not disagreeing with some of the things you have said, cutting and pasting content isn't the best way to go about things and there are other things that are missing from the sandbox that I really hoped to be in there.

The point I am making is that you didn't pay for any of the features / content that has been cut.

I paid for the full game and all of the feature's and content that were marketed and sold along with that full game.

Do I go to a steakhouse and order a prime rib and when I get a shitty chuck steak just say "Oh I guess I wasn't promised a prime rib but rather any piece of meat when I ordered."? Is that logical, to be completely ambivalent and ignorant about getting what I paid for?

How far do you really want to go to justify your bias at this point?

So we should be getting more quality for the lack of quantity we are receiving am I right? So why is it that everything that's not graphics is either the same, nonexistant or a dumbed down version of what we had in ArmA 2? Like the First aid system, no weapon resting or bipods, no vehicle interiors etc...

You explain to me how we are getting more quality, and please don't just say the graphics are pretty or the texture's are higher res. Where is this so called quality that should be trumping quantity right now, because I sure don't see it.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

Well Windies, you got me with your circular snare of logic :p Surely if I, or anyone else in the appreciation thread or any Joe that happens to just, really like the game, we are either poor simple creatures of no taste or too busy sucking the mighty teet of Bohemia...

Maybe some of us are gamers longer than most and have a very specific taste and /or we understand value at dollars spent/hours of enjoyment. I could list the many reasons why my priorities may be different than yours but I'll just leave it at already 500+ hours enjoyment for 30 bucks spent. :)

Well at least my circular snare of logic actually contained some "logic" rather than petty opinionated insults about classification of "gamers".

[fujix 11]

Such a shame really. Instead of taking what was great with Arma 2 and evolving it, Arma 3 is a step backwards. Content is a disgrace. What happened to quality over quantity? There is so much copy & paste going on its ridiculous. I mean seriously who are you trying to sell that BS to? How can there be so little content after such a long development time?

I remember when dayZ got big and Arma 2 got all those extra sales. Alot of us were very happy for you guys and hoped that with the extra sales more funding might be able to find its way to Arma 3 and make it really awesome. Instead we get this :(

BIS has stated many times they wanted an infantry focus. Improved movement and custom loadouts etc are awesome yes, but the rest is terribad.

What ruins infantry combat imho is the overdone recoil and sway, no bipods/resting to counter it, enemies surviving 4-5 hits (!), lack of proper medical system, FAKS, badly implemented graphical effects from fatigue and wounds.

So not only is there very little content, there are also alot of really bad design decisions on top of that ruining that great experience that we are used to from Arma 2.

BIS used to be one of my favorite devs. I spent thousands of hours in Arma 2. But right now I dont see myself preordering any future products. Arma series is taking the same patch as many other game series. Instead of evolving and becoming better they go backwards becoming worse.

I doubt Arma 3 will get good reviews next week and it really hurts saying it but it doesnt deserve any.

[froggyluv 2130]

You misread or failed comprehension. It was not a 'classification of gamers' to insinuate that younger gamers don't have taste, it was in reference to you stating that anyone accepting this 'piece of sh#t' either has no standards or are screaming BI fanboys. I beg to differ.

Do I go to a steakhouse and order a prime rib and when I get a shitty chuck steak just say "Oh I guess I wasn't promised a prime rib but rather any piece of meat when I ordered."? Is that logical, to be completely ambivalent and ignorant about getting what I paid for?

False analogy.

A. The restaurant hasn't opened yet.

B. If your a picky eater, ask people before you go to the restaurant after it has actually opened.

C. It's still Prime Rib just not cooked to your specific liking while others love it.

Edited September 4, 2013 by froggyluv

[windies 11]

You misread or failed comprehension. It was not a 'classification of gamers' to insinuate that younger gamers don't have taste, it was in reference to you stating that anyone accepting this 'piece of sh#t' either has no standards or are screaming BI fanboys. I beg to differ.

So basically, as someone biased you want to tell me how you're not biased.

Also trying to insinuate that older gamers are somehow better gamers is generally considered to be an insinuation of classification. Basically you could have just said "lawl CoD n00bz" and been equally as offensive and ignorant.

---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

You misread or failed comprehension. It was not a 'classification of gamers' to insinuate that younger gamers don't have taste, it was in reference to you stating that anyone accepting this 'piece of sh#t' either has no standards or are screaming BI fanboys. I beg to differ.

False analogy.

A. The restaurant hasn't opened yet.

B. If your a picky eater, ask people before you go to the restaurant after it has actually opened.

C. It's still Prime Rib just not cooked to your specific liking while others love it.

A. Even though the restaurant isn't open, we have a menu. We know what they're going to serve even though they aren't open.

B. How does being picky have to do with getting what I ordered? Are you just trying to justify giving me a shitty chuck steak in lieu of the prime rib I ordered? Basically you're biased and supporting either bait and switch tactics or false advertising, for what?

C. No it's not, they're 2 different cuts of meat and represent two different qualities.

[froggyluv 2130]

Deleted

Edited September 5, 2013 by froggyluv
Duped!