New sidearm - anyone else have trouble believing its 9mm?

[OrLoK 20]

Hello there

IMHO it looks like a .45 to me from the clip, muzzle width and the big .45 on the side.

I wonder if it's a simple slip up and it is supposed to be a .45 rather than a 9mm or whether it is down to "balancing"?

In the long run it's a minor niggle to me personally, but I can understand why folk might get a little grumpy about it. Having rarely used sidearms in anger in any Arma game, can one tell any practical difference in A2 between a 9mm round compared to a .45 round?

Rgds

LoK

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

just to be an ass, that VectorV you posted on the first page is in fact a 6mm version.. more accurately it's an airsoft gun.

but yes, the real Vector is indeed .45ACP.

---------- Post added at 02:55 ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 ----------

Hello there

IMHO it looks like a .45 to me from the clip, muzzle width and the big .45 on the side.

I wonder if it's a simple slip up and it is supposed to be a .45 rather than a 9mm or whether it is down to "balancing"?

In the long run it's a minor niggle to me personally, but I can understand why folk might get a little grumpy about it. Having rarely used sidearms in anger in any Arma game, can one tell any practical difference in A2 between a 9mm round compared to a .45 round?

Rgds

LoK

i'm sure BIS are just using 9mm as a place holder.. we're not even Beta yet.

this disease must end..

[ghostnineone 10]

It's based off the Kimber Covert Warrior 2, except in 9mm. (I'd prefer .45, even though 9mm 1911's are real) Pistols are essentially useless though, as I shot a guy twice in the head with a 7.62 round and he survived. I often die in one shot from enemy 6.5's though...

[sqb-sma 66]

What's this balancing nonsense that people are talking about?

I thought balancing was down to the mission maker, don't tell me they're sacrificing realism for "every weapon must be exactly the same... it's only fair"?

Now that I think about it... the blufor vs opfor guns are almost identical...

See, in my opinion, the teams should be balanced in other ways than making them identical, like the ol' m16 vs Ak debate, the m16 can be fired faster and more accurately, but the AK packs a bigger punch and is more reliable. If you give one team a weapon that is obviously overpowered then it's up to the mission makers to build around it and make things interesting (god forbid). Take Rising Storm for example, only the yanks get a flamethrower, and boy is it deadly, they also get semi-auto M1 Garands by default whilst the japs get 5 round T99/T96 bolt action rifles. However the Japanese also get interesting gameplay elements, they can banzai charge and soak up damage in their adrenaline rush, only falling if a vital part is hit or they're lit on fire, their weapons have bayonets (seriously, on EVERYTHING, the machine guns have bayonets!) and they can plant booby traps. Basically they're encouraged to fight completely different to the yanks, they sneak around, plant traps, then rush in with grenades and bayonets once the squad's flamer goes down. While the yanks are encouraged to move slowly, pick off targets then set up bases of fire and flank + manoeuver towards the enemy. If both teams were given the same weapons it would be extremely boring.

[chortles 263]

There's a "balancing" thread for "balancing in general". :p Its relevance as far as this thread seems to be simply a fear that all three three factions sofar are just getting "almost identical" pistols --I'm that specific because vehicle-whole-lineups seem to be asymmetrical, and it seems like BI tried to push a little bit of more asymmetry with some of the long guns introduced in beta -- but then again, as I said before, that just seems to come down to them all "conveniently" happening to be 9 x 21 mm pistols that all use the same magazine, a situation which as we saw with the TRG series and the MXM is not set in stone (TRG series became 5.56 mm and uses the STANAG mags, MXM got changed to use MX magazines), and as RobertHammer mentioned, there's already been such an "out" (for changing to .45 ACP) found in the Vermin SBR magazine's config.

As for not using .45 ACP by default? The Field Manual screams "whoever is writing the descriptions is perfectly damn willing to claim that these are conveniently all custom variants, evolutions or copies". Hell, after people started pointing to the Zafir 7.62 mm as a "Negev", the Field Manual now outright implies that the Zafir is a Chinese ripoff. :p

Edited June 24, 2013 by Chortles

[rasdenfasden 12]

Based on their names, I'm going to assume that the ACP will be rechambered to .45 and the Rook 40 will be changed to .40 S&W. I certainly hope so, variety can't hurt.

[chortles 263]

Based on their names, I'm going to assume that the ACP will be rechambered to .45 and the Rook 40 will be changed to .40 S&W. I certainly hope so, variety can't hurt.

I admittedly don't have a reason to object to such a change, I'm just honestly not worried if they don't. I do however believe that part of the reason that you're not seeing much of a hubbub about this... at least in part stems from, well, "how often do you see pistols outside of pistols-only TDM?" Not much at all...

[rasdenfasden 12]

I admittedly don't have a reason to object to such a change, I'm just honestly not worried if they don't. I do however believe that part of the reason that you're not seeing much of a hubbub about this... at least in part stems from, well, "how often do you see pistols outside of pistols-only TDM?" Not much at all...

Well, they certainly have gained usefulness thanks to the new animations.

Or at least they would if their damage wasn't so rubbish. I used a handgun to defend myself in the supports showcase. I must've shot this bastard crewman who snuck up on me 6 times before he hit the ground.

Edited June 24, 2013 by RasdenFasden

[Laqueesha 474]

Aside from the wrong caliber, what about the magazine capacity? In the Beta, the ACP has a mag cap of 18 (I think). That is possible with 1911-derivatives, albeit with a extended double-stack magazine. However, the ACP looks too thin to be a double-stack. Thoughts?

[Dark6-6 10]

I want .45 for my sidearm and 7.62 in my rifle. Nothing else will do. I'm curious why they changed EBR to ABR...I imagine it's a licensing issue. Just like the Bohemia interactive stamp on the receiver haha

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[sproyd 2]

Aside from the wrong caliber, what about the magazine capacity? In the Beta, the ACP has a mag cap of 18 (I think). That is possible with 1911-derivatives, albeit with a extended double-stack magazine. However, the ACP looks too thin to be a double-stack. Thoughts?

Well if BIS really are wanting to do sidearm balancing why don't they adopt... nature's balancing.

I.e. bigger rounds take up more space, hence you sacrifice mag capacity and lower recoil for moar power. I mean even BF3 does this.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

One: The Browning Hi-Power is a 9mm 1911

Two: It says in the field manual it's a modern update on the design or something like that, so it's ok.

Besides, I thought the Kriss Vector had versions in development or something that just weren't out yet in different calibers. Also, it's 9x21 but what do I know.

[Flogger23m 2]

I thought balancing was down to the mission maker, don't tell me they're sacrificing realism for "every weapon must be exactly the same... it's only fair"?

It is worth noting the BIS has always missed the finer details on things, at least since the ArmA 1 days. Belt feds would reload just as quick as mag fed rifles. Refinement and finishing a feature never was their strong point. With ArmA 3 they jumped into a future setting, so they can more or less make whatever fictional weapon/vehicle they want and balance it how they see fit. 9mm 1911s do exist, and a few countries actually do use (or used) them in 9x19mm. Why anyone in the future would choose a 9x19mm 1911 is beyond me though. There are plenty of newer designs with a much higher capacity, such as the P226 with 18 round mags or CZ-75s with 19 round mags.

This is one of the reasons why the $33 price tag is just too steep for me.

[chortles 263]

Kilroy, there is the KRISS K10 which is supposed to support 9 mm conversion, the problem is that it visibly does not look like the Vector which the Vermin SBR is visually modeled after. Then again, the SDAR is just a 5.56 x 45 mm version of the Kel-Tec RFB with no optic rail, which goes to show you what someone at BI thinks of authenticity. :p

With ArmA 3 they jumped into a future setting, so they can more or less make whatever fictional weapon/vehicle they want and balance it how they see fit.

This person completely understands and deserves a +1.

9mm 1911s do exist, and a few countries actually do use (or used) them in 9x19mm. Why anyone in the future would choose a 9x19mm 1911 is beyond me though. There are plenty of newer designs with a much higher capacity, such as the P226 with 18 round mags or CZ-75s with 19 round mags.

The current ACP-C2 implementation is a purportedly hi-cap 9 mm 1911; here's a real-life example thereof! Although that one is both a double-stack weapon and apparently a race gun... other than what Laqueesha described (that the in-game model doesn't look like it uses a double-stack magazine) the point is that it's not being "unrealistic" to use a hi-cap 1911 in 9 mm.

This is one of the reasons why the $33 price tag is just too steep for me.

It ain't getting any cheaper before the holidays, it's only going to go higher.

[Dark6-6 10]

It is worth noting the BIS has always missed the finer details on things, at least since the ArmA 1 days. Belt feds would reload just as quick as mag fed rifles. Refinement and finishing a feature never was their strong point. With ArmA 3 they jumped into a future setting, so they can more or less make whatever fictional weapon/vehicle they want and balance it how they see fit. 9mm 1911s do exist, and a few countries actually do use (or used) them in 9x19mm. Why anyone in the future would choose a 9x19mm 1911 is beyond me though. There are plenty of newer designs with a much higher capacity, such as the P226 with 18 round mags or CZ-75s with 19 round mags.

This is one of the reasons why the $33 price tag is just too steep for me.

I've played 200 hours. If I never play again I've got my moneys worth

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Wolfstriked 11]

I've played 200 hours. If I never play again I've got my moneys worth

:thumbsup: I feel the same.Money well spent what with some of the crazy battles I have had so far and its not even the full game.:D

[lesscubes 1]

One: The Browning Hi-Power is a 9mm 1911

By that logic, so is a Glock. They share a operating system and a designer (Dieudonne Saive finished the gun for FN after Browning's passing.), but beyond that the Hi-Power is a totally different gun. Zero parts commonality. Both have single action triggers but they're of entirely different design. They ARE both fantastic though. Point, carry and shoot well.

As far as what the field manual says- It's a single stack frame. I'm hoping it does have the magazine capacity dropped to a reasonable level, 9 or 10 rounds if in 9mm, 7-8 if it's .45ACP

[OrLoK 20]

Dynamo;2421747']

this disease must end..

I often call my Mags, clips etc for me they're interchangeable when talking casually.

Let's face it, it's only a game....

*runs away*

L

[ZoneTrooper 10]

Are you guys seriously crying about the wrong ammo in the weapons of arma 3? please guys you are kidding right? i mean we are in BETA Status now,and there are still some HUGELY INSANE and massiv gameplay bugs in ARMA 3 that need´s to be handle then balancing weapons omg.I realy dont wanna start the list,because it is just EXTREM long,thats why i just call one of the majore bugs,like vehicles dmg system.Ramming a fence with 20 Kmh while you are driving a 12 ton vehicle destroys your engine,and rips of a tire.Or best example i ever had,2 days ago i killed the driver of a Ifrit with a 9MM pistol right through the frontal window with 2 shots,later that day a 50.Call of a Strider ripped of my APC with 30 bullets into pieces.I dont know if Bohemia just wanna kidd is,or if they say that this is realistic,seriously guys do you even know what a MRAP MAV named Hunter ingame is? this vehicle also the ifrit are IED protected vehicles,who can hold up a light IED they just get some dmg thats it,but you never NEVER could penetrate the Windows of these kind of vehicles with normal weapons except you have 408 or 50.Call.And so please guys when they fixed these horrible totally GAME DESTRUCTING issues then YES then you can cry about weapon ammo please but not now guys.

[Flogger23m 2]

The current ACP-C2 implementation is a purportedly hi-cap 9 mm 1911; here's a real-life example thereof! Although that one is both a double-stack weapon and apparently a race gun... other than what Laqueesha described (that the in-game model doesn't look like it uses a double-stack magazine) the point is that it's not being "unrealistic" to use a hi-cap 1911 in 9 mm.

Indeed, the 1911 in game does look like a single stack and it does say .45 on the in game weapon apparently. Double stack 1911s are sold to civilians in both 9mm and .45. They will either have to modify the current 1911 in game to be a single stack .45, modify the 3D model/texture and make it a single stack 9x19mm, or just do the cheap way out and make it a double stack version with a sing stack grip. What they end up doing by the final game is anyone's guess.

I've played 200 hours. If I never play again I've got my moneys worth

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

I've spent about 7 hours in the alpha, and I've tried getting into it. But I can't. The same short comings but I am stuck with content I don't care about. My only hope is an ACE like mod comes out for ArmA 3 so I don't have to install 50 weapon and vehicle pack mods with all of their compatibility issues.

Are you guys seriously crying about the wrong ammo in the weapons of arma 3? please guys you are kidding right? i mean we are in BETA Status now,and there are still some HUGELY INSANE and massiv gameplay bugs in ARMA 3 that need´s to be handle then balancing weapons omg.I realy dont wanna start the list,because it is just EXTREM long,thats why i just call one of the majore bugs,like vehicles dmg system.Ramming a fence with 20 Kmh while you are driving a 12 ton vehicle destroys your engine,and rips of a tire.Or best example i ever had,2 days ago i killed the driver of a Ifrit with a 9MM pistol right through the frontal window with 2 shots,later that day a 50.Call of a Strider ripped of my APC with 30 bullets into pieces.I dont know if Bohemia just wanna kidd is,or if they say that this is realistic,seriously guys do you even know what a MRAP MAV named Hunter ingame is? this vehicle also the ifrit are IED protected vehicles,who can hold up a light IED they just get some dmg thats it,but you never NEVER could penetrate the Windows of these kind of vehicles with normal weapons except you have 408 or 50.Call.And so please guys when they fixed these horrible totally GAME DESTRUCTING issues then YES then you can cry about weapon ammo please but not now guys.

The game is marketed as a simulator, and as such I expect simulator quality in the details. If I wanted to play a sandbox game I'd get Fallout and if I wanted to play a generic shooter I'd get Battlefield.

[Dark6-6 10]

I often call my Mags, clips etc for me they're interchangeable when talking casually.

Let's face it, it's only a game....

*runs away*

L

"I need a clip!"

Sorry I'm not using a garand

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Drumheller 19]

*twitch*

I DONT CARE WHAT CALIBER IT IS, JUST COCK THE HAMMER BACK PLEASE. ITS A SINGLE ACTION PISTOL

*twitch*

[EuroSlave 1]

I have a problem with all pistols in arma 3 - I just can't hit a target past 10m

There is something different about them compared to arma 2

arma 2 pistols (especially m1911) had a weighty feel about them

arma 3 feels like i'm shooting a nerf gun.

[sproyd 2]

*twitch*

I DONT CARE WHAT CALIBER IT IS, JUST COCK THE HAMMER BACK PLEASE. ITS A SINGLE ACTION PISTOL

*twitch*

LOL I never even thought of this... obviously a minor one up there with non-working selector switch on the rifles/SMGs. By the logic in this thread maybe in the future they re-engineered 1911s to be double action lolololololololol

[kanadetachibana0 10]

Friendly AI? Turn off extended armor in the difficulty options.

As for non-existent M1911s in 9mm, it was actually extremely rare to see a .45 ACP M1911 in movies prior to the 90s. The .45 blanks were rather unreliable so most "M1911s" were actually 9mm Star Model Bs.

i want USP and MK 23 pistol into Arma 3 :)