New sidearm - anyone else have trouble believing its 9mm?

[sproyd 2]

The new sidearm should certainly be 45ACP surely in-game? I know that makes balance difficult given the other sidearms are 9mm but I am really having trouble suspending reality to believe that this is a 9mm weapon... and I love 1911s (who doesn't)...

A real steel equivalent...

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

OH! and the new KRISS VECTOR even has 45 acp written on it in-game but its 9mm!! According to Wiki All current KRISS Vectors are chambered in .45 ACP.

http://s9.postimg.org/n00fww427/kriss.jpg (148 kB)

But god does it look awesome!!!!!

Here's the real steel for comparison

---------- Post added at 11:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 ----------

Also, Congrats to BIS on the modelling... these two guns look fantastic - now time to make them 45acp!!!

[chortles 263]

Have the SW1911 in 9mm, that's more or less what happened here with the "ACP-C2". Just because "1911" is synonymous with ".45 ACP" in certain circles doesn't mean that BI's 9mm 1911 is unrealistic. :p

The Vector's successor SMG called the K10 will also be getting a caliber conversion kit for 9 mm as well, although it doesn't look like the Vector/"Vermin SBR".

[sproyd 2]

Have the SW1911 in 9mm, that's more or less what happened here with the "ACP-C2". Just because "1911" is synonymous with ".45 ACP" in certain circles doesn't mean that BI's 9mm 1911 is unrealistic. :p

Hmmm didn't know there was a 9mm version but the one in game certainly looks like the 4,5! Look at that barrel - it ain't 9mm (hence why I put that pic up).

The Vector's successor SMG called the K10 will also be getting a caliber conversion kit for 9 mm as well, although it doesn't look like the Vector/"Vermin SBR".

Yes and the in-game model actually has .45 ACP written on it! Also, I find it unlikely that military would be issued with a 9mm SMG for open combat? I mean MP5s are usually only used for indoor operations or when there is a risk of civilian injury right?

[roberthammer 582]

Well there are magazines for Kriss

	class 30Rnd_45ACP_Mag_SMG_01: 30Rnd_9x21_Mag	{
	displayName = "$STR_A3_CfgMagazines_30Rnd_9x21_Mag_SMG_010";
	descriptionShort = "$STR_A3_CfgMagazines_30Rnd_9x21_Mag_SMG_011";
	mass = 6;
	tracersEvery = 0;
	lastRoundsTracer = 4;
	ammo = "B_45ACP_Ball";
	initSpeed = 260;
};
class 30Rnd_45ACP_Mag_SMG_01_Tracer_Green: 30Rnd_45ACP_Mag_SMG_01
{
	displayName = "$STR_A3_CfgMagazines_30Rnd_9x21_Mag_SMG_01_Tracer_Green0";
	ammo = "B_9x21_Ball_Tracer_Green";
	tracersEvery = 1;
	lastRoundsTracer = 30;
	descriptionShort = "$STR_A3_CfgMagazines_30Rnd_9x21_Mag_SMG_01_Tracer_Green1";
	displaynameshort = "$STR_A3_tracer_dns";
};

So it might change , but for kimber probably not

[sproyd 2]

Speaking of magazines - this certainly isn't a 9mm one!!!

[Zatan13th 10]

I think it is the same as TAR-21.

"will be changed later".

[Alwarren 2765]

Have the SW1911 in 9mm, that's more or less what happened here with the "ACP-C2". Just because "1911" is synonymous with ".45 ACP" in certain circles doesn't mean that BI's 9mm 1911 is unrealistic. :p

It's not a Smith and Wesson, it's a Colt M45, a.k.a the USMC CQBP and it ought to be a .45 caliber. The 9mm is probably "balancing" again.

[metalcraze 290]

I agree, it seems that it's just another example of "balancing". Please stop ruining the game with it, BIS.

[chortles 263]

I didn't say that the ACP-P2 is a 9 x 21 mm version of the SW1911, only that "yeah, 1911s exist in 9 mm and here's a real life example". As for it not being a SW1911 that's modeled... at this point I can't really tell which "tactical" 1911 a given model is supposed to be, there's so many.

[Alwarren 2765]

I didn't say that the ACP-P2 is a 9 x 21 mm version of the SW1911, only that "yeah, 1911s exist in 9 mm and here's a real life example".

Yes, but just admit that the gun is 9mm in the game likely for no other reason but balancing. A 1911 with 9mm is about as common as a 9mm M4. Yeah they exist, but so do unicorns.

[chortles 263]

Yes, but just admit that the gun is 9mm in the game likely for no other reason but balancing. A 1911 with 9mm is about as common as a 9mm M4. Yeah they exist, but so do unicorns.

... I've seen 9mm "M4s" too.

As far as the current situation, I see it as nothing worse than how at one point both the MXM and the then-EBR were both "7.62 x 45 mm" weapons using the same 20 round magazines, or how at one point you had one "6.5 mm NATO" suppressor for all but one of the 6.5 mm weapons, or how the TRG-20/TRG-21 series was basically just a different 6.5 mm AR series with its own exclusive magazines... TL;DR: all potentially-subject-to-change (and the "Vermin SBR" mag data posted by RobertHammer seems to suggest as much for that weapon) even if I see where your concern stems from.

Also, I find it unlikely that military would be issued with a 9mm SMG for open combat? I mean MP5s are usually only used for indoor operations or when there is a risk of civilian injury right?

Just to address this particular point... wouldn't the same apply with a .45 SMG too? I'd the curious choice is more in "issuing a SMG for open combat", period.

[sproyd 2]

Just to address this particular point... wouldn't the same apply with a .45 SMG too? I'd the curious choice is more in "issuing a SMG for open combat", period.

No. (I'm guessing that) 45acp doesn't have the effective range of 5.56 or other assault rifle calibres but it certainly a major step up in stopping power from 9mm.

[Alwarren 2765]

... I've seen 9mm "M4s" too.

Yeah, I know. Point being, while they exist, they are so rare that they don't really matter.

As far as the current situation, I see it as nothing worse than how at one point both the MXM and the then-EBR were both "7.62 x 45 mm" weapons using the same 20 round magazines, or how at one point you had one "6.5 mm NATO" suppressor for all but one of the 6.5 mm weapons, or how the TRG-20/TRG-21 series was basically just a different 6.5 mm AR series with its own exclusive magazines... TL;DR: all potentially-subject-to-change (and the "Vermin SBR" mag data posted by RobertHammer seems to suggest as much for that weapon) even if I see where your concern stems from.Just to address this particular point... wouldn't the same apply with a .45 SMG too? I'd the curious choice is more in "issuing a SMG for open combat", period.

It takes me five minutes to make a new magazine with ammo, so why go 9mm and risk to break missions AGAIN in the future IF you don't intent to keep it that way, more so in beta where supposedly they will take care not to break things so much? That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Everybody likes to play the "subject to change" card it seems, but a) changes break missions, and b) you run out of time to change things, so why not make them right in the first place? When someone pointed something out, it was always "It's an Alpha dude". Now it will be "it's a beta" or "subject to change". I am curious what people will say after the final.. "Chill, dude, that's what expansions are for"?

[JdB 151]

No. (I'm guessing that) 45acp doesn't have the effective range of 5.56 or other assault rifle calibres but it certainly a major step up in stopping power from 9mm.

9mm SMGs are more silent than .45s (assuming all are equiped with a suppressor) but with less knockdown power. Why a 4.6mm SMG (MP-7) or 5.7 (P-90) aren't prioritized over a .45 is beyond me since they are the standard for silent operating in confined spaces replacing the traditional 9mm and .45 weapons with longer range, a flatter ballistical trajectory and better performance against body armor.

The weapon looks a lot like the Kimber Warrior SOC.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custom-ii/warriorsoc

Only available in .45 ACP, but I imagine that unit armorers like those of JSOC can convert it to 9mm with relative ease. Why anyone would do that is a different question altogether since the few "Tier 1" operators that have talked about their loadouts prefer .45s because it will actually put someone down and there are plenty of 9mm's on the market, so sadly it looks like it's done for balancing gameplay :(

For a 9mm for regular Blufor I would prefer a different model rather than a converted .45.

Edited June 23, 2013 by JdB

[Wolfstriked 11]

I think that they are not trying to balance all weapons judging by Opfor seeming to love high power weapons.Just compare the machine gun to the LMG of opfor.And their APC has a more powerful machine gun on turret also.I say that they should further this all the way and make the Kriss and 1911 both .45.Maybe then servers will start making it so that you play opfor also.:j:

[EvenLease 11]

Well... there is 1911 9mm's...

http://www.gunsprings.com/content/Image/1911_Govt_pistol.jpg

So, I can believe its a 9mm.

[Insanatrix 0]

Well... there is 1911 9mm's...

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/4432/1jyj.jpg

http://www.gunsprings.com/content/Image/1911_Govt_pistol.jpg

So, I can believe its a 9mm.

I think what they are getting at is that the ACP-C2 is a .45 handgun. It would be like chambering the EBR in 5.56 simply because the MXM is 5.56.

[lesscubes 1]

Well... there is 1911 9mm's...

<snip>

So, I can believe its a 9mm.

That's a blank firing gun actually.

But yeah, M1911's come in just about every major automatic handgun caliber (and rimfire too). 9x19mm, .357SIG, .38 Super, .40S&W, 10mm Norma, .45ACP... And those are common calibers... I tend to believe that the 16 round 9mm mags are a place holder so no one had to write in new magazines yet. I think the "Rook-40" handguns will see a caliber switch to .40 Smith & Wesson eventually.

You can't easily convert a .45 to a 9mm. The 9mm/.38 Super slides are a little different internally so it's more than just a barrel. I can tell you that 9mm M1911's shoot really sweet in real life. Very soft recoil, but it is a big heavy pistol with a long barrel.

[GottyPlays 10]

It's not a Smith and Wesson, it's a Colt M45, a.k.a the USMC CQBP and it ought to be a .45 caliber. The 9mm is probably "balancing" again.

please bis dont do that

[rockdpm 10]

Its also hard to justify it being 9mm when on the side it says "45 ACP"

[chortles 263]

Watch BI's reaction be to eventually release a patch removing the ".45 ACP" marking from the model. :lol:

[sproyd 2]

The worst thing is that 9mm in game is nearly useless... Given that AI and humans are nearly 100% fine after taking a couple of 9mm rounds to non-armored areas including the face

[Deadfast 43]

The worst thing is that 9mm in game is nearly useless... Given that AI and humans are nearly 100% fine after taking a couple of 9mm rounds to non-armored areas including the face

Friendly AI? Turn off extended armor in the difficulty options.

As for non-existent M1911s in 9mm, it was actually extremely rare to see a .45 ACP M1911 in movies prior to the 90s. The .45 blanks were rather unreliable so most "M1911s" were actually 9mm Star Model Bs.

[sproyd 2]

I just had a Skorpion rampage on Wasteland w beta content - and yes it was running at about 12fps but it took an entire magazine on a guy to kill him. Obviously not all the rounds hit him but he was out of ammo so just sprinting around me and that combined with the 9mm and frame rate...... its just not cricket.

Although: skorpion = 9mm IRL.

[lesscubes 1]

I just had a Skorpion rampage on Wasteland w beta content - and yes it was running at about 12fps but it took an entire magazine on a guy to kill him. Obviously not all the rounds hit him but he was out of ammo so just sprinting around me and that combined with the 9mm and frame rate...... its just not cricket.

Although: skorpion = 9mm IRL.

Handgun rounds aren't exactly the hammer of god, especially ball rounds that poke little holes and usually fail to dissipate all their kinetic energy into the target... Shot placement is way more important than how hot the bullet is and I don't think ARMA really does wounding in the most realistic way. Nor do I think it necessarily should. (Take a single 9mm round away from your vitals and don't treat it? You'll bleed out but it'd take forever. Take a 12g to your plate carrier and it'd knock you out and break all your ribs, who wants to lay unconcious in game?)