Serious injuries (graphic) - gore/violence

[simon1279 51]

It's about german thinking. Lets say BIS would put gore into ArmA. The germans only question is: "Will that make our citizens world conquerers again? Will we have WW3?" - and the default answer is "yes, we should not risk it" and the result would be, "we should forbid ArmA".

In my country we say: making errors is human, repeat the same errors is idiotic, learn from errors is wise, so i believe this doesn't matter, and i have many germans real life friends, germans are very good and kind people, and the past is just history and nothing else, is like to complain to us italians romans canceled entire peoples such as dacii... history.

so back on topic at this point maybe it is for to have PEGI 14 or PEGI 16 instead of PEGI 18 maybe, and have the possibility for a widest customer base

[max power 21]

Let's summarize:

What we have now: No gore and no possibility for modding that (like Toxx mentioned - "detachable" like limbs) - it stays the A2 way - only possible way is spawning the dead body object in place of dead soldier.

What we should have: Core-engine support for modders interested in dismemberment.

Effect: Both sides are happy - wanters and rating boards.

Committing the programming team to create/shoehorn/hack in contentless hidden features is a waste of time and money.

[fragmachine 12]

Committing the programming team to create/shoehorn/hack in contentless hidden features is a waste of time and money.

Well my opinion on this is they don't have to reinvent the wheel, just cowork with BiSim and implement the VBS 2 system. In fact they have an huge amount of time, not only until release but also after release!

[Tyl3r99 41]

im sure there will be many mods that will add lots and lots of blood

[best2nd 10]

im sure there will be many mods that will add lots and lots of blood

Please no!

[chortles 263]

Well my opinion on this is they don't have to reinvent the wheel, just cowork with BiSim and implement the VBS 2 system. In fact they have an huge amount of time, not only until release but also after release!

My understanding is that the Arma devs' relationship with BISim/VBS2 devs doesn't quite work that way...

[giorgygr 61]

Bit off-topic but No game made Citizens bloodthirsty world conquerors.

To do that you need:

1) A nasty plan containing..

2) ..1-2 decades of poverty on mostly poor educated people..

3)..and a bad man to make it work

[fragmachine 12]

My understanding is that the Arma devs' relationship with BISim/VBS2 devs doesn't quite work that way...

It doesn't work this way BUT it could work that way. We talk about what CAN be done in the future - and I don't see anything that could prevent them from co-work and sharing their experiences - as they did before for A3.

Edited June 20, 2013 by fragmachine
typo

[bigpickle 0]

Hang on a minute, devs said on more than one occasion on the run up to Alpha that gore dismemberment etc would not be in the release but the ability to mod dismemberment was in place for modders and that it would be easy to do.

[fragmachine 12]

That's what i heard couple of times but it was long ago. There is no fresh information or confirmation about this or how would it work so I treat it as "no" answer. Remember, that in A2 there was gore with some mods around there - but the thing is if would be improved in that field rather than just "delete x soldier body = spawn shattered/smoldered body object in place of" implementation.

When devs said that gore will be possible on A3 engine did they meant that it will be possible the SLX mod way or VBS way? At least I don't know.

But what we already know is that many features that has been announced before won't make it into final, like for instance tank interiors, TOH flight model at release. I even remember when BIS tweeted in game picture of Merkava and T-100 tanks and someone saw track being not only conformed to the terrain but also T-100 tracks seemed to be melted into ground - so from then most peoples had this one as a argument of implemented mud (probably because everything is possible with Physx...)

And this way the wheel is spinning faster and faster...

Edited June 20, 2013 by fragmachine
typo

[Fuse 1]

Bit off-topic but No game made Citizens bloodthirsty world conquerors.

To do that you need:

1) A nasty plan containing..

2) ..1-2 decades of poverty on mostly poor educated people..

3)..and a bad man to make it work

No one here is arguing that. Only politicians are that stupid.

As for VBS and Arma 3, it's never as simple as taking code from one team and slapping it in your engine. Never. At least not if you want it to work well.

[sqb-sma 66]

Hang on a minute, devs said on more than one occasion on the run up to Alpha that gore dismemberment etc would not be in the release but the ability to mod dismemberment was in place for modders and that it would be easy to do.

As far as I'm aware that is and has always been the case. They don't think that the joy of the game should come from the gore, but rather from the gameplay, which I respect (though I wouldn't mind gore, Ro2 seemed to take the opposite approach and the gameplay was... subpar).

Mods have been adding excessive gore to Arma since... OFP I guess, or was it Arma 1 that had the mod where people would explode into pieces when hit with the grenade launcher?

[fragmachine 12]

Well implementing something never wasn't just as simple as copy-paste - so to make VBS assets working in A3 they would need VBS team assistance.

More scripted visual-wound system based on hitpoint and spawn would be making hundreds of thousand different models without the leg only, head only, forearm only, hands only, feets, and so on + mix of these with or without these - just to get realistic effect of mortar rounds making much more damage than just fragmentation grenade which - obviously just penetrate the body and causes internal bleeding.

On top of that it would not cope with addon infantry, just with vanilla one.

[max power 21]

Well my opinion on this is they don't have to reinvent the wheel, just cowork with BiSim and implement the VBS 2 system. In fact they have an huge amount of time, not only until release but also after release!

If they have budgeted their time (and money) correctly, they have exactly 0 extra time before their release date to ram in features that aren't in their design document. Ideally, they have planned out their sprints already and so everyone is 100% loaded for the duration of their development cycle. If this is true, you're basically asking people to work overtime (more than game devs already work) to plan, spec out, and implement a feature that isn't supported by their art assets or anything else. Or, you're asking them to push back some other work that was planned to fill that time. Even after the main development ends, they will be shuffling people around to work on DLCs or other products to keep everyone moving and productive.

My point is that I think adding features is pretty cool, and they schedule it in on occasion, but they aren't going to commit expensive resource to putting in something they aren't going to use. You'd be better off trying to convince them that they need it for their own product, I think.

[bangtail 0]

im sure there will be many mods that will add lots and lots of blood

Please no!

Why not, it's a mod - no one is going to force you to use it.

I don't mind people having an aversion to blood and gore but what I really do mind is people insisting that their preferences be forced onto everyone else.

War isn't nice, get over it!

The effects of a .50 round on the human body (for example) are beyond simply 'visible'.

I certainly wouldn't want anything gratuitous, but I don't have a problem with the accurate representation of trauma, the lack of it does break my immersion.

Conversely, I realize that the dev team have plenty of other things to do, but if someone wants to mod it (and in all likelihood they will), you are more than welcome to avoid the mod if it happens to offend your delicate sensibilities ;)

Edited June 21, 2013 by BangTail

[50.cal 10]

According to what I see in the Alpha I'm afraid this game sadly appears to be sliding on the dark mainstream side of the marketing force.

Yes it's polished...and the animations look better, but it's loosing its soul.

From my point of view what made this game different (in addition to the moddability and the sandbox concept) was the fact that at its core it depicted so well the unforgiveness of the modern battlefield and the raw result of such firefights.

Now, I'm sorry but it looks like the damage system has been dumbed down. Also the it looks like the gore aspect has been massively toned down as well, and so on...

Hope it's only because of the Alpha state of the game at this stage but I doubt it.

What is the goal of all this politically so clean aspect? Trying to get a "Teen" ESRB rating?

This is a major problem for me...I bough the supporter version of the game because I liked the "unpolitically decent" side of the game but now I am very worried to see this becoming an other tasteless and conformist product of the "video game industry".

[-Coulum- 35]

Well it isn't dismemberment, but it sure isn't bloodless.

At least BIS are trying to put some extra gore in (although the above is overkill and looks silly). I don't really care if there is dismemberment or not but I do think that a more in depth wounding system would be awesome. But then again there are so many other things that I feel are even more necessary (ie. bipods or the tickets in my sig.)

Edited June 22, 2013 by -Coulum-

[Smurf 12]

Overdone? Dunno, it's a 40mm projectile.

[froggyluv 2130]

Overdone? Dunno, it's a 40mm projectile.

Blood looks cartoonish and way to uniform. Matter of fact, that whole event should be chaotic but even the ragdoll is uniform. Needs variety and less balloons of blood.

[-Coulum- 35]

Overdone? Dunno, it's a 40mm projectile.

Yeah I don't mean the penetration is overdone, but rather the cartoony (far to big and last far too long) blood clouds and synchronized ragdolls.

[chrisb 196]

SLX did dismemberment and that didn’t look much good, it needs to be in there in some form. There was a mod being worked on for A2 but I think that’s stalled a little, perhaps maybe they were waiting for A3, not sure.

The only thing I would say is performance, there are many players moaning now about the performance, the more that goes in the more the pc has to give.

Tweaking whats there already, might be better than putting new stuff in. That said, I want them to concentrate on ai, but that’s unlikely too.:(

[max power 21]

I think BI's particle effects are usually very large so you can see them at long range.

[50.cal 10]

Dismemberment is not required. Because it would most likely look fake as it usually does.

But the game looks way to clean at this stage. If we could at least have something that looks like what we had in arma 1...

[fragmachine 12]

I agree with all your statements. Gore isn't necessary, there are much more important things to do right now (like bipods) and I must agree with 50.cal that this game feels less deadly, it is not a run for your life like it was did even better in first OFP (and I know it is Alp... ehm Beta - that is why I complain about it right now! Until it is too late!). ArmA can't loose it's uniquess, because it will became (hopefully not) next Battlefield with just much bigger maps.

Video posted by Coulum shows that ragdoll seems too clean and needs more variety but I think that BIS will work it out.

Blood is somehow strange, it should be dependant on the damage done and what part of the body was hit. Every AP hit to the soldier or his body gave the same baloon like blood effect.

Edited June 23, 2013 by fragmachine
typo

[supercereal4 29]

+1, headshots in Arma 3 look like you got a cat scratch on the forehead.... and a hole in your chest.