Turkey gets it "Arab Spring" ?

[oxmox 73]

There are quite a lot of people protesting currently in the Turkey. First I thought these are only some thousands demonstrating at the Taksim place and some media did report about ten thousands, who are protesting against a shopping mall. It seems like there is more reason why so many protest on the streets. The questionable part is actually the brutality of the police. But overall Iam a bit surprised about the masses of people who are on the streets, yesterday there were reports saying more than one million people did demonstrate alone in Istanbul.

There is a web-blog with some great photographs, I don't want to post the link since you see as well bloody injuries.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/5cc0e8334a8d4dfb7242f66fa9c9e633/tumblr_mnovueRLhq1ste7qoo1_1280.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9a712711e3889c62c14b94c3cd72c585/tumblr_mnoez2akUU1ste7qoo1_1280.jpg

Image removed due to content.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/07a4a9ac8e8bb8f73fb6433b4a40c3c2/tumblr_mnnriwNTV21ste7qoo1_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9d9be489e91384e67e0709923d80834f/tumblr_mnpr1301QE1ste7qoo1_1280.jpg

Edited June 3, 2013 by PurePassion
please watch the max. allowed filesize for hotlinked images (100KB)

[ProfTournesol 956]

But this time, it is against a conservative islamic government.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

But this time, it is against a conservative islamic government.

It's a secular country ! and it's not an "arab spring" ... i see no real reasons for this mess ! Turkey can't be compared to those arab countries in which the arab banana happened !

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's a secular country ! and it's not an "arab spring" ... i see no real reasons for this mess ! Turkey can't be compared to those arab countries in which the arab banana happened !

That's because turkish young people want to defend secularism against the islamization of their country that it's a mess ? I hope the Turskish Army will still support secularism, as it seems that the Egyptian Army doesn't support it anymore in Egypt..

Edited June 2, 2013 by ProfTournesol

[sudayev 27]

A large gallery to browse -link removed-

On a second pic it's explained what this movement is all about.

I've been trying to watch Polish regime controlled tv, but they didn't say against what people are protesting, probably because the government have their pants full and they instructed media not to heat up any topics they may sparkle anti government moods.

Edited June 2, 2013 by PurePassion
No posting of explicit images or linking to them!

[On_Sabbatical 11]

That's because turkish young people want to defend secularism against the islamization of their country that it's a mess ? I hope the Turskish Army will still support secularism, as it seems that the Egyptian Army doesn't support it anymore in Egypt..

Where did you get this from ? and who said whether secularism is good or bad ? what logic is this ?

Till now ,no one knows why those guys are protesting ... and my feeling is that it has something to do with what's happening in Syria,and those bashar's threads to export the Syrian crisis to neighbour countries :S

Besides,Turkish governement is a democratically voted one ! if they want some change they need to review their methods ,not just spread chaos !

Edited June 3, 2013 by On_Sabbatical

[katipo66 94]

i wonder who the west backs in this one :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well didnt it start as the Turkish police used tear gas and water cannons = use of excessive force to evict protesters? Mr Erdogan later said that a mosque, not a shopping center, will be build on Gezi park. The Turkish government is getting more and more authoritarian. Last week, the government passed legislation curbing the sale and advertising of alcoholic drinks. Maybe Mr Erdogan is just trying to calm down any protest against his ideas and plans as quick as possible?

[vilas 473]

Where did you get this from ? and who said whether secularism is good or bad ? what logic is this ?

logic on history, most terrorist attacks, most wars in history had religious roots, as Slayer sings "religion is hate, religion is war, religion is rape",

there are some religions in this world which better not exist cause they make harm to others , some religions are peaceful, some are hateful and saying about domination killing homosexuals or causing suffering to some animals for "ritual" killing etc.,

modern state cannot be not secular, cause religion is irrational in itself (of course religion is good to keep some people polite, they have vision of hell and heaven , so they act more moral cause they afraid of "hell"),

but religion cannot be forced , which "some" religions do (last decade especially abroad, when newcomers say that locals "must obey" their believes and trying to force local secular society to "respect" religion which this society do not want ),

maybe many percent of people on globe are too amoral or dumb to respect each other and they need "heaven and hell" , but state must be secular as organization, middle ages no more, earth is round not flat like in middle ages they claimed burning those who were saying earth is round

Edited June 3, 2013 by vilas

[ProfTournesol 956]

Where did you get this from ? and who said whether secularism is good or bad ? what logic is this ?

Till now ,no one knows why those guys are protesting ... and my feeling is that it has something to do with what's happening in Syria,and those bashar's threads to export the Syrian crisis to neighbour countries :S

Besides,Turkish governement is a democratically voted one ! if they want some change they need to review their methods ,not just spread chaos !

The modern Turkey was founded on secularism, the simple fact that an islamist party was elected is a problem in my opinion, and now they are showing their real face. But young educated Turkish people, and hopefully the army too, won't let them confiscate freedom.

Edited June 3, 2013 by ProfTournesol

[On_Sabbatical 11]

The modern Turkey was founded on secularism, the simple fact that an islamist party was elected is a problem in my opinion, and now they are showing their real face. But young educated Turkish people, and hopefully the army too, won't let them confiscate freedom.

Do you know how was Turkey before the arrival of the JPD and how it became after ?

the simple fact that an islamist party was elected is a problem in my opinion

Well,at least,they didn't take it by force ...

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

modern state cannot be not secular, cause religion is irrational in itself

Yes, good luck ruling a religous population using the secular model !

Secular model is only good for cosmopolitan nations ... it would fail elsewhere !

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, good luck ruling a religous population using the secular model !

Secular model is only good for cosmopolitan nations ... it would fail elsewhere !

Lol. France was a Christian only country when it became secular.

[Beagle 684]

We should not forget that a lot of "western" countries are only secular on paper, especially Spain, Italy, southern german fedetal states, Ausria and don't forget Poland.

Right now it's the Bishops that spoil the party by throwing in all the remaining power and influence and money of the catholic church whenever it gets political about contraception, abortion, family models and homosexual "marriage".

Edited June 3, 2013 by Beagle

[scrim 1]

I as a Catholic see why a secular governement is preferable. One ruled by religion is very prone to abuse, because the leader, who at times won't even actually be subscribing to the religion, will do whatever he pleases and say "it's God's will, how can you question it?", using the religion as a tool of terror, and in the long term benefit himself and damage the religion, even for those who abide by it and don't cause others harm with it as an excuse. The Catholic church ended up losing around half its members because people got tired of kings and queens in Europe shielding themselves behind it every time they had messed up or done something that had caused thousands upon thousands of their subjects to die, and more to lead a life hardly worthy of being called a life. And in the end the new Christian demoninations ended up doing pretty much exactly the same thing, causing the creation of new demoninations, and some to leave the religion all together.

Long story short, a religious rule is mostly used by someone to excuse his own welfare at the expense of everyone else and the religion he's hiding behind.

[krycek 349]

Erdogan blaming Twitter and social media for wide-spreading the protests.How long until the protesters are declared terrorists and net is cut off?

I doubt we have another Assad here with Turkey being in NATO and all,but these guys sure have a small booklet "What to do in case of massive protests:blame internet,blame opposition,blame foreign occult powers".

[vilas 473]

We should not forget that a lot of "western" countries are only secular on paper, especially Spain, Italy, southern german fedetal states, Ausria and don't forget Poland.

Right now it's the Bishops that spoil the party by throwing in all the remaining power and influence and money of the catholic church whenever it gets political about contraception, abortion, family models and homosexual "marriage".

it is not about religion and bishops, if majority of people do not like gay marriage (cause i think that child should have mom and dad), than state cannot force it (if it is democratic, will of majority=democracy),

but it is about morality that people "feel" (basing on religion in past too) ,

although i am atheist and i am sharing my point with "Catholic" and it doesn't have anything to bishops (which i do not like , i am metalhead with long hairs, wearing Vader or Behemoth t-shirts) and i would go to protest like French people if gay marriage would be forced by law (seeing picture of Elton John in white dress),

my friend who is Pagan (black metal vocalist) also would go to protest, although noone of us is "Catholic", of course i do not like when state support any religion by tax money (building churches) OR when state pushes rights of minority over right of majority,

religions will die in future as cultural thing, maybe 1000 years , maybe 200, but those things you mentioned like abortion or gays, it is about "morality and personal taste" , but i do not want to murder those people who sleep with each other like some "religions" do, i just don't want them to raise kids (adoption), i am atheist not religious person,

during communism church was fought by state, secret police even murdered some priests, although 80% of people were visiting church every Sunday back than , so what ?

europe had secular governments since 1-2 centuries and noone was building law system on "god said that you cannot eat meat in friday, god say that you must eat fish in friday, god said... "

in Islam there is "god said" which is ridiculous which touches what you can eat, how you can make sex etc. this is ridiculous that someone tells you what beard to wear, what food to eat et

people should eat what they feel tasty, not what "god" said, no "god" can tell me that i cannot eat meat which i like more than other meat or cheese or whatever , i eat what i like to eat and in bed i do with my girl what i want , not what any "god" says,

i hope Turkish youth will win and not let Turkey to turn back from secular state way into another "medieval-stan" in which you are told what to eat, if someone wants to pray, let he pray, but let he not force others (look at what happens in East London, ever heard "Muslim Patrol" ? )

in Europe we had medieval and we know how bad it was, Christianity made big step after medieval, but other religion seems to follow what medieval was here, it is hard to compare Christianity now to what it was in 1400 AD,

religion state = pure evil and thought terror,

cause how can anyone say that "god" told something, if god is not proven by science, there only "priests" who justify by "god" things that they want to achieve (power, money, following crowd , being leaders ),

religion is only thing that is used to control people and their thoughts, it is just a tool for power,

the problem is that religion and "Bishops" are only ones who not afraid to be "politically incorrect" and they say what some of us think but afraid to say because "political correctness terror" and they use it, gain on it,

i would rather say that more "bad" was done through "political correctness" and without "political correctness" those Bishops you mention would not have such power, because secular parties would have balls to say something (which currently only Church have balls to say)

in religious societies there is no place even for having own taste in kitchen cause even food is told to be something (in Christianity you couldn't eat meat in Friday, in Jewish religion they do not eat pork meat, in Islam you cannot eat some other things too. etc.)

i cannot imagine state is forcing my tastes of pizza for example cause "god said"

Edited June 3, 2013 by vilas

[ric 1]

calm down everyone...this is jut a reaction to one of the MOD's closing the Low CPU utilization & Low FPS thread :p

[chrzrw79 12]

...

i cannot imagine state is forcing my tastes of pizza for example cause "god said"

@Vilas:

If the people in a democratic society decide and agree that everyone living in it should be treated equal and live freely,

and then on the other hand, they protest against people who are "different" and dont live thier lives how the majority does,

this kind of democracy makes no real sense for me!

[GRS 10]

Democracy when most people don't know what they are voting on doesn't make much sense anyways. Especially given that majority opinion != necessarily correct.

Unfortunately still the best system I've seen yet.

[ric 1]

Democracy when most people don't know what they are voting on doesn't make much sense anyways. Especially given that majority opinion != necessarily correct.

Unfortunately still the best system I've seen yet.

funny you should say that, I was talking to a friend of mine who is from Romania and she said when she first got here she would watch Romanian tv via satellite but after a while she stopped but recently watched it and was amazed at how fat people had gotten and all the crime and drug problems that have started in Romania ever since democracy replaced communism.

I have a friend who went back to Ukraine after being gone for years to see her family and was amazed how dangerous it was now...she said when she was young that she was not afraid to walk alone at night because there were so many police around but since communism collapsed there is rampant corruption and organized crime runs everything...

[vilas 473]

funny you should say that, I was talking to a friend of mine who is from Romania and she said when she first got here she would watch Romanian tv via satellite but after a while she stopped but recently watched it and was amazed at how fat people had gotten and all the crime and drug problems that have started in Romania ever since democracy replaced communism.

I have a friend who went back to Ukraine after being gone for years to see her family and was amazed how dangerous it was now...she said when she was young that she was not afraid to walk alone at night because there were so many police around but since communism collapsed there is rampant corruption and organized crime runs everything...

i know it, i am from Poland, but democracy weakness (2 votes of 2 idiots are more than 1 vote of 1 PhD) but religious regime is much worse than any communism,

socialism which you talk about was not invading the way you sleep with someone , was not invading what you can eat (socialism invades how enterprises , companies are led, how taxes are spend), religions do it, religion invade even what you can eat, how can you make sex etc.

[scrim 1]

Ah, well that perfectly explains why the Communist block outlawed homosexuality, and people were shot for it in the USSR. It obviously also dictated what you got to eat (or if you got to eat at all), since the import from the "fascist West" wasn't really big.

[Amra 10]

people were shot for it in the USSR

Lol, lies. What next? Billions of people shot by Stalin himself?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Maybe it would be better to stay on topic, ie Turkey.

[froggyluv 2130]

Maybe it would be better to stay on topic, ie Turkey.

While I completely agree, I'd venture that's its somewhat hard to separate the political/religious debate as that seems to be at the heart of much of these uprisings. As far as what system is the worst ie... religious/atheist/communist/fascist - they all have the potential to be the worst if the leaders have the need to dominate as their primary motive over welfare of the people. Throughout history we can see that when a fascist government comes to abuse -leftists come to arms. When religious abuse -atheists or secularists come to arms. Its all the same and is more about the story of human's need to impose their values on others thru force when the diametrically opposed political paradigm comes to show it's face thru opposition ad infinitum....