Any chance for default melee weapons?

[Sneakson 1]

I think melee is appropriate. CQB, special ops, stealth... a knife is a man's best friend?

[no use for a name 0]

Yawn....although I'd almost encourage melee weapons at this point, so when someone tries to sneak up and knife/bayonet/butt-stock/whatever; the "victim" just puts a three-round burst in their chest/head. Maybe after the 3rd or 4th time of getting shot when they try to melee someone they'll take a hint

[white 1]

Those kind of votes are always confounded by peoples' political views. At least, the discussions always turn very political.

Well, a con is that I've never really played an FPS that had any kind of satisfying hand to hand combat system- even the ones that take place in some kind of fantasy setting where your primary weapons are hand to hand weapons! I would really rather they just leave out anything that sucks.

i agree, and allowing melee fights would probably endup looking horrible in arma.

but still think a knockback quick push with your main weapon to temporarly disarm/stun and then some sort of a disabling takedown that couldnt be blocked while stunned would be cool.

lets say i know some guy is around the corner, i can rush into him and knock him back, then i can either shoot him while he is temporarly stunned, or go ahead and disable with a takedown. then drag the guy to my heli/car and take him to my hq and lock him up or something, how cool would that be.

an easy alternative could be a somewhat slow foward hard thrust with a knife (with a knife button not having to wait 5 seconds to change from the main weapon) that could both stun and disable the enemy without killing so you could drag him or what not. (i think the dragging script ppl already use is acceptable altought not optimal). and if you missed it you would both alert the enemy and have a disavantage from the delay for both using the knife or using your weapon again.

i know its not a necessity but would be pretty cool.

Edited April 27, 2013 by white

[Mac 1]

i agree, and allowing melee fights would probably endup looking horrible in arma.

but still think a knockback quick push with your main weapon to temporarly disarm/stun and then some sort of a disabling takedown that couldnt be blocked while stunned would be cool.

lets say i know some guy is around the corner, i can rush into him and knock him back, then i can either shoot him while he is temporarly stunned, or go ahead and disable with a takedown. then drag the guy to my heli/car and take him to my hq and lock him up or something, how cool would that be.

an easy alternative could be a somewhat slow foward hard thrust with a knife (with a knife button not having to wait 5 seconds to change from the main weapon) that could both stun and disable the enemy without killing so you could drag him or what not. (i think the dragging script ppl already use is acceptable altought not optimal). and if you missed it you would both alert the enemy and have a disavantage from the delay for both using the knife or using your weapon again.

i know its not a necessity but would be pretty cool.

That sounds really really cool, like something I saw in a movie, or something I did in a twitch shooter, but so unrealistic and impractical that I would rather it not be in Arma. Thanks

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

i agree, and allowing melee fights would probably endup looking horrible in arma.

but still think a knockback quick push with your main weapon to temporarly disarm/stun and then some sort of a disabling takedown that couldnt be blocked while stunned would be cool.

lets say i know some guy is around the corner, i can rush into him and knock him back, then i can either shoot him while he is temporarly stunned, or go ahead and disable with a takedown. then drag the guy to my heli/car and take him to my hq and lock him up or something, how cool would that be.

an easy alternative could be a somewhat slow foward hard thrust with a knife (with a knife button not having to wait 5 seconds to change from the main weapon) that could both stun and disable the enemy without killing so you could drag him or what not. (i think the dragging script ppl already use is acceptable altought not optimal). and if you missed it you would both alert the enemy and have a disavantage from the delay for both using the knife or using your weapon again.

i know its not a necessity but would be pretty cool.

You could do something like this, with a butt strike of the gun you could just speak to him and make him your prisoner, or even try to take his items from him. Of Course it has to the other player to roleplay so he won't do "f*ck this" and try to kill you anyway

[chrisb 196]

When I was thinking melee, it was more stealthy knife kills, not brawling.:rolleyes:

Can you imagine brawling with arma’s movement system…… could be a whole new game..;)

.

[max power 21]

When I was thinking melee, it was more stealthy knife kills, not brawling.:rolleyes:

Can you imagine brawling with arma’s movement system…… could be a whole new game..;)

.

Yeah, hold down 5 buttons and select from a menu to launch into a long, unbreakable animation that will play if there's an enemy in front of you or not.

[Kieran 11]

I really don't see the big probem.

You point your rifle and fire

you point the knife/bayonet and thrust. where ever you hit the enemy kill or wound its really not that difficult.

would be pretty hilarious to see some Mount and blade combat type style

but realistically if you find yourself some cod kiddie sneaking with a knife chances are you will be shot dead before you even get near the unit.

it would add great flexibility anyhow when the situation calls for it.

great for mission makers also along with the ability to restrain your opponent. take them as a hostage etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pzxb2sxbDU

[liquidpinky 11]

Yeah, hold down 5 buttons and select from a menu to launch into a long, unbreakable animation that will play if there's an enemy in front of you or not.

Until I read this I thought melee might be a good addition. Now I am just going to make sure I don't run out of ammo, ever.

[WonderWaffles 1]

Well, a con is that I've never really played an FPS that had any kind of satisfying hand to hand combat system- even the ones that take place in some kind of fantasy setting where your primary weapons are hand to hand weapons! I would really rather they just leave out anything that sucks.

Irrelevant, but Chivalry: Medieval Warfare is a great one that comes to mind. Let's get back on topic shall we!

[EricM 0]

A simple melee system could be the basis for many things : if not for you as a soldier, for your opponents as a threat. Imagine being faced with a goup of angry civilians. now give them machetes... Now the mob is a different beast...

I don't believe either in stealth kills, but knives can be used for hunting/survival missions, cut stuff (eg underwater).

The "No melee/no jumping or vaulting" crowd is just ignoring that you can play in arma other things than a fully loaded grunt with an assault rifle...

so : not a priority by any means, but I certainly wouldn't mind expanding the possibilities...

[kremator 1064]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119209-Stealth-Kills&highlight=melee

There you go ... 75 pages of pure drivel that we are going to go through again!

[killzone_kid 1326]

Until I read this I thought melee might be a good addition. Now I am just going to make sure I don't run out of ammo, ever.

Of course each melee can have dedicated animation, then yes you can bet it will be like max power said. Gestures however are fast and independent of your current animation so if there is a glimpse of hope it will probably be done this way.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119209-Stealth-Kills&highlight=melee

There you go ... 75 pages of pure drivel that we are going to go through again!

I think you've made your point, there is no reason to go for 75 pages repeating it, we are not idiots you know.

[metalcraze 290]

Well you keep asking for utterly unrealistic one-hit "stealth" knives and people keep answering and it goes round and round and round.

I just hope BIS never adds this kind of silly stuff into ArmA.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Melee is very suitable to modding and should be finally implemented in one way or another, but i'm not sure it should be included in vanilla game.

[white 1]

That sounds really really cool, like something I saw in a movie, or something I did in a twitch shooter, but so unrealistic and impractical that I would rather it not be in Arma. Thanks

yes because takedowns/stun and disarm dont exist in real life right? lol

http://www.dvidshub.net/video/128142/military-police-baton-takedown-training-b-roll

Well you keep asking for utterly unrealistic one-hit "stealth" knives and people keep answering and it goes round and round and round.

I just hope BIS never adds this kind of silly stuff into ArmA.

you prefer the completely unrealistic silencer for stealth kills that we have always had on the ArmA series, got it.

Edited April 27, 2013 by white

[wipman 1]

Hi, IMO the only viable Melee Combat would be the Basic Combat Instruction rifle attacks, set a perimeter arround the (performer) unit, when an NME is at that perimeter... you click LMB and you perform 1 of the 3 possible movements (if you don't have a bayonet on the AR) that are:

- Rifle Stock Lateral Strike.

- Rifle Stock Upside Strike.

- Rifle Stock Downwards Strike.

* Front Attack (that could be deadly if not attended by a Corpsman) With a Bayonet.

The 1St three ones could/should drop the NME to the ground, giving you time to fire at him/her point blank while it's on the ground; the same happens with the bayonet strike, but even if you miss the target and he/she shoots you back killing you, he/she would need medical asistance anyways; if you do it well IRL (as you should) the target would die anyways even if you stab him/her on the operating room table. But as this is a game... we should give those FNG AIs and players the chance to play a bit more and die somewhere else. Let's C ya

*Edit: With a pistol the best that you can do is kick the target to push him/her away and then shoot the target, or... hit him/her hard with the pistol downside or grip's butt on the neck, to break the target's pharynx or on the aorta artery, and then put lead enough on him/her while still on the ground or away as to stop a train; the simple method use to be the good one.

Edited April 27, 2013 by wipman

[chrisb 196]

Yeah, hold down 5 buttons and select from a menu to launch into a long, unbreakable animation that will play if there's an enemy in front of you or not.

Macros ?

Push by feint has a nice little addon there, I have an imagination even if you haven't, don't need all the animation, just the fact you can creep up behind and use a knife for a stealth kill is good, doesn't have to show a full animation, could even use feints, just avoid the push element.

With coming through war games over many years, in lots of them you have to use your imagination, if you have one of course.

[wipman 1]

Hi, if im not wrong... you can't do any stealth kill on this engine. If the unit to kill is linked to a group/squad the rest of the group/squad would know that that unit is dead and would begin to scan for targets if they don't actualy know "by the God's grace..." where you're exactly.

The stealth kills don't worry me other than the ranged ones, IMO the stealth melee kills should be a neck break movement and that's all and not a Green Verets (the infamous John Wayne movie) neck stabbing, doing it rougly would make alot of noise, over all by night or inside houses. They should increase the time that takes for the other squad members to know that they'd lost one, at least... on units that don't have a radio... , to have something close to stealth kills.

The Basic Infantry Combat (rifle) movements are more practical or prioritary to me. Let's C ya

[metalcraze 290]

you prefer the completely unrealistic silencer for stealth kills that we have always had on the ArmA series, got it.

What's so unrealistic about it? It can be heard and yet it still tends to suppress the sound well enough depending on the weapon and caliber type - that's a very realistic behavior. The only unrealistic thing there was is that it didn't need subsonic ammunition to make a difference but it seems to be changed in ArmA3.

If the unit to kill is linked to a group/squad the rest of the group/squad would know that that unit is dead and would begin to scan for targets

I don't get it? What's wrong with such behavior? You wouldn't care if people in your squad started mysteriously missing?

They should increase the time that takes for the other squad members to know that they'd lost one, at least...

The time can sometimes be as long as a whole minute which is ridiculous. I think that's in fact too much to notice that you are now 7 and not 8. If anything the upper time limit needs to be shortened.

It's almost instant only if the soldier is getting killed in squad's direct sight.

Edited April 28, 2013 by metalcraze

[white 1]

What's so unrealistic about it? It can be heard and yet it still tends to suppress the sound well enough depending on the weapon and caliber type - that's a very realistic behavior. The only unrealistic thing there was is that it didn't need subsonic ammunition to make a difference but it seems to be changed in ArmA3.

the unrealistic thing is that it is more silent than a person clapping (which is 40-50db) and that after a few dozen meters you cant hear it, when a real silenced rifle has around 130db even with subsonic ammo, and thats as loud as a jackhammer. that means u can clearly hear it for hundreds of meters on open hills like those in arma. and its still loud as fuck from upclose, nowhere near stealth. the game´s silencer simply sounds exatcly like in holywood movies, completely fake.

you can dislike melee weapons or takedowns although both exists in real life military, thats fine, but calling knives unrealistic while believing silencers in arma behave realistically is screwed up to say the least.

and i wont even begin with third person, because to me thats the complete opossite of being realistic, thats like a tomb raider game ffs.

Edited April 28, 2013 by white

[froggyluv 2130]

First off let me state that I 100% support some sort of melee animation system -for modders.

That said, i've somewhat soured on just a basic Killer Distance Player < 1 insta-hit/death by knife. I have no question spec op types are trained in both armed and unarmed grappling as a guy I know from both high school and survival camp teaches them (he did all the Kali knife fight choreography for the movie "The Hunted"). What bothers me is that this is a game that rewards precision and merely closing distance equaling fatal death just doesn't sit right. Personally I know nothing of real life knife battles but i do have more than a few years of BJJ under my belt and do know that almost all CQB (without gun) is a game of give and take with rarely any sort of 1 hit fatality or chokes/punches. I would say at the very least I'd prefer an extremely accurate hit box detection of the melee weapon as well as the point of contact coupled with the physics of motion ...ie an enemy moving away with the attack would only garner superficial wounds.

Again, totally for it for the modders -sceptical for Arma 3 the Military Game/ Simulation thingie :)

[bad benson 1733]

some sort of melee animation system -for modders.

and that's exactly what this thread is about. this isn't a continuation of the horrible stealth kill thread. people should stop being so narrow minded and accept the fact that a lot of people like this game for all the stuff they can do with it by modding it. not everything arma is about military operations.

i totally agree that one shot kill knives like in the popular shooters aren't bringing anything to the game but please keep in mind that there are a lot of creative people longing for something like this to realize some awesome projects.

not everyone in the arma community is a realism nerd...

[wipman 1]

I don't get it? What's wrong with such behavior? You wouldn't care if people in your squad started mysteriously missing?

What i see wrong on that, is that when you're guarding something... a building, a tank, or a static possition... you're not chating with your squad mates every minute; you can be in silence for more than 10 or 15mins, usually during all the guard unless you see some contact or something weird. Guarding perimeters is another thing, but works pretty much the same and you're not in visual contact with the rest of the guard, you only use the radio if you reach the contact point and the other squad mate isn't there or is not at visual contact; so i think that when the units are guarding something as a depot... a hangar or something and are not at visual contact, it should take much more for 'em to enter into Danger or Aware behaviour, like 3 or 5mins as much (for gaming pourpouses) instead be instant or almost instant, that would be more realistic and better in gaming therms IMO. Also... the units should react entering into Danger behaviour when they see a dead unit of their side on a complex, base or village; and into Aware behaviour when they see it on the open ground, like a wood or a field; into Danger or even Stealth if they see it on a road.

But the insta-Know where you're after a unit on a squad is killed is entirely wrong and screws alot of the missions that could require a bit of silence before start a shots salad.

[Mac 1]

Edit: Read the previous post wrong