Any chance for default melee weapons?

[white 1]

"An Afghan teenager fatally stabbed an American soldier in the neck as he played with children in eastern Afghanistan"

Nice try to protect your "ArmA too hard, add press-to-win button" argument but you forgot to quote this part.

Unless playing with children is considered an operation in a combat area where soldiers expect an attack (esp. from children) - which would be new to me. Or was that kid a highly trained Al-Qaeda stealth op - was that your point?

Yes it's quite telling about how effective knives are when the reported knife kill is no different from a homicide in a random country.

Please more apples vs. oranges examples.

a soldier had his guard down, a 16 year old kid (us drafts kids how old again? 18 right?) came from behind, killed him and left without noone noticing. stealth enough to me, no silenced weapon would be able to accomplish the same as effectively, thats my point. in my country you might be killed at anytime if using army or mp uniforms on "safe" streets, since they become targets for criminals, i kindsof feel that soldiers in a foreign country they just bombed the shit off cant really afford to have their guards down at any moment, specially when their main enemies dress as civilians.

just children around so he mustve been in safe fairy land right? well wrong, i feel soldiers shouldnt let their guard down specially after events like this: http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20121203/NEWS/212030312/Some-Afghan-kids-aren-t-bystanders

ingame there is no way to accomplish anything remotely similar to that. ingame you can dive in scuba gear and get 1m from someone in a boat, why the hell shouldnt you be able to use a silent knife takedown? there is no excuse.

knives are a part of the military all over the world and close quarter combats exist, may be rare but they are there, otherwise noone would train with knives or train takedowns exaustively. like ive said, some generals should read you guys and based on your opinions extinct martial arts and knives from the military, because you know better.

i already made a mod for this - just haven't ported it over yet. will do in time.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?143142-static-and-turret-weapons-improvements-HE-and-AP-ammo-searchlights&highlight=eb_resources

still need help with the knife? (and that particular model looks old)

Edited April 30, 2013 by white

[eggbeast 3684]

just added it for unsung vietnam mod in arma2 - with working bayonets. will port to A3 in due course

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?152988-The-Unsung-Vietnam-War-Mod-2-5-Released&p=2385596&viewfull=1#post2385596

it is rough and ready this - no actual models are used.

the knife is added as a magazine, not a weapon.

if someone wanted to model one, it would be great to have - could then faff about with throwing animation and system...

also, if anyone makes bayonet weapons, or a stock bayonet that fits to the end of the barrel of any rifle, etc then this script would work really well to add/remove it and make it kill.

[daze23 1]

Yes, I was in the army, and I had a knife... used it once to cut on a piece of wood because I was bored, and to open a field ration when the opening cord broke off.

that's what it comes down to: a knife is still an effective survival tool, but not an efficient modern weapon

[white 1]

just added it for unsung vietnam mod in arma2 - with working bayonets. will port to A3 in due course

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?152988-The-Unsung-Vietnam-War-Mod-2-5-Released&p=2385596&viewfull=1#post2385596

it is rough and ready this - no actual models are used.

the knife is added as a magazine, not a weapon.

if someone wanted to model one, it would be great to have - could then faff about with throwing animation and system...

also, if anyone makes bayonet weapons, or a stock bayonet that fits to the end of the barrel of any rifle, etc then this script would work really well to add/remove it and make it kill.

i can model a knife, no problem. in hopes it will see the light of day of course =)

out of curiosity, i couldnt find a stock bayonet attachment for modern rifles, care to share one so i can take a look? only found knifes with rings that clip to the barrel.

Edited April 30, 2013 by white

[nodunit 397]

I guess you're right. Hopefully if it is implemented it will be in a realistic manner. I mean, in real life the last thing you ever want to do is find yourself in a knife fight so hopefully it can be implemented in a way to make it a highly undesirable option

Exactly, a last ditch effort kind of thing such as where you run out of ammo you aren't left completely screwed. Hell it doesn't even have to be realistic to be undesireable, just make it a case where 8 or so stabs (with chest protection pending body armor type IE plates) since by then you would be shot by the person you are stabbing or someone else.

I won't even go into how "Call of Duty-ish" this is (yes, I said Call of Duty. Sue me).

But the question is "Why ?" Why are "Knife kills" a must have in Arma (a military sandbox game) ? Are you seriously believing that real soldiers use knifes for anything else but cutting open ammo packs and iron rations ?

Because Arma is not real life , artillery and aircraft aren't going to cover your escape most of the time, and once you run out of ammo you are useless as a player, there is NOTHING you can do...guns are power in this game, in fact a gun is THE driving mechanic of infantry, without a gun you are only capable of running and doing squat.

Secondly why does it always have to be military? What about civil? What about the idea that melee inspires other melee weapons such as bats, batons, a bit of tree, disarming mods, essentially giving birth to civil melee battles of all sorts. Why can't it be about resistance fighters using everything they have available with unsound tactics? Why does it always have to be about the soldier specifically?

Guns are the end all be all for defense and offense in this game and have been, the addition of melee weaponry would allow more flexibility, making it so that if you run out of ammo you aren't completely SOL is the very best example I can think of for those stuck in the corridor mindset.

Edited April 30, 2013 by NodUnit

[eggbeast 3684]

i can model a knife, no problem. in hopes it will see the light of day of course =)

out of curiosity, i couldnt find a stock bayonet attachment for modern rifles, care to share one so i can take a look? only found knifes with rings that clip to the barrel.

awesome if you have arma 2 buzz me on steam GITSEggbeast and i'll hook you up with the server we're in now using ka-bars and commando daggers and bayonets

i've just released an addition to this today that adds the ability to screw on your silencer too, so bringing a3 to a2. it already adds flashlights to all stock weapons.

[Varanon 892]

Because Arma is not real life , artillery and aircraft aren't going to cover your escape most of the time, and once you run out of ammo you are useless as a player, there is NOTHING you can do...guns are power in this game, in fact a gun is THE driving mechanic of infantry, without a gun you are only capable of running and doing squat.

And you think a knife would change that ? There's absolutely no way in Arma to sneak up to an enemy soldier, let alone close enough to knife him. And in real life, you wouldn't be able to be totally silent either, unless there's enough ambient noise. Knifes just aren't used for combat anymore.

Secondly why does it always have to be military? What about civil? What about the idea that melee inspires other melee weapons such as bats, batons, a bit of tree, disarming mods, essentially giving birth to civil melee battles of all sorts. Why can't it be about resistance fighters using everything they have available with unsound tactics? Why does it always have to be about the soldier specifically?

I don't know, maybe, well, because Arma is a military simulator ? May have something to do with it.

Guns are the end all be all for defense and offense in this game and have been, the addition of melee weaponry would allow more flexibility, making it so that if you run out of ammo you aren't completely SOL is the very best example I can think of for those stuck in the corridor mindset.

I completely agree with you. It would open up a lot of potentially different opportunities. DayZ is a good example. Or this medieval mod that's currently in development for Arma 2.

However, two things: What's up next ? You say you need a knife once you have no ammo. What if you don't have a knife ? Do you want to be able to pick up rocks and throw them at enemies ? Or fists ? You need to draw a line somewhere.

Secondly: Question is, it worth the effort ? A lot or problems of Arma 2 aren't fixed in Arma 3 yet. Before adding a completely new feature set, I would say concentrating on the core mechanics and getting those up to specs (especially bug fixes) is much more important. Especially if it's about a feature that will be used about once in 100 hours of play.

I play since OFP, and not ONCE did I get in a situation where a knife would have been useful or usable. NOT ONCE! That's why I repeat the question: "Why are knife kills essential in Arma ?" A feature no one missed in ten years of OFP/Arma, essential ?

[metalcraze 290]

Exactly, a last ditch effort kind of thing such as where you run out of ammo you aren't left completely screwed. Hell it doesn't even have to be realistic to be undesireable, just make it a case where 8 or so stabs (with chest protection pending body armor type IE plates) since by then you would be shot by the person you are stabbing or someone else.

I can tell you how this thread would go if BIS was to do it the proper way.

"I try to hit soldier with a knife from behind but he didn't die from 1st hit?!? BIS ur knife is broken!"

"I was running past an enemy and pressed the knife button but he just sprayed and killed me in return. What is this?! Why can't you make knife realistic like in other stealth games like BF3 and Call of Duty?!"

"BIS I'm trying to come at an enemy guarding stuff from behind but he just hears my footsteps turns around and kills me! I can't even use my kni-" OH WAI-

[white 1]

I can tell you how this thread would go if BIS was to do it the proper way.

"I try to hit soldier with a knife from behind but he didn't die from 1st hit?!? BIS ur knife is broken!"

"I was running past an enemy and pressed the knife button but he just sprayed and killed me in return. What is this?! Why can't you make knife realistic like in other stealth games like BF3 and Call of Duty?!"

"BIS I'm trying to come at an enemy guarding stuff from behind but he just hears my footsteps turns around and kills me! I can't even use my kni-" OH WAI-

proper way from behind would be the way that the vet described on the video i posted, would then be in fact a 1 hit kill with a knife to the neck/throat and pretty much like a takedown in bf3. the issue and the one i accept, is that in arma you hardly ever get to close quarter combat, so people mostly don´t need it. but there is no other stealth/silent weapon in real life for close quarters, they only exist in movies with magic silencers.

you can argue they aren´t needed and time could be spent on other features, thats fine, but you can´t argue they aren´t real. and cod or bf3 or whatever game as unreal as they are, if they insert something that is inherently real, doesnt make it automatically unreal. still is something real on an unreal game.

and again, saying knives would be unrealistic when on a tomb raider like third person game is @#$#@$.

second is retarded and the third one, well, i tend to hear steps on any game (but arma does have one of the worst 3d sound positioning ive ever heard, sometimes is really hard to tell accurately which direction sound is coming from, and ive always had a good offboard soundcard and heaphone). except cod, because i dont play its multiplayer, ive only ever played singleplayer and a long time ago at that. people do say is hard to hear footsteps on it.

there are retarded people complaining about anything on any game, but none of what you said is valid.

awesome if you have arma 2 buzz me on steam GITSEggbeast and i'll hook you up with the server we're in now using ka-bars and commando daggers and bayonets

i've just released an addition to this today that adds the ability to screw on your silencer too, so bringing a3 to a2. it already adds flashlights to all stock weapons.

ill add you =)

Edited May 2, 2013 by white

[babylonjoke 22]

+ 1 to melee combat.

You can always remove the "knife" item from the editor , why don't implement it if it can be implemented?

It just give more possibilities to the community

Even if melee is most of the time usless it can really save your (character) ass.. :rolleyes:

[PFC Magician 10]

definitely would be good! interaction with different objects and animations melee

knives, hammers, machetes, beer, adrenaline syringes, cigarettes, chocolate, water bottle, cosmetic camouflage,analgesic tablets, tools box etc.

[Varanon 892]

+ 1 to melee combat.

You know that "melee combat" is a bit of a broad definition ? That means swords, knifes, clubs, fist... all with different animations, since you stab with a knife, but swing a club, beat with your fists etc... and wouldn't we also want a parry option ? I mean, after all, we want it to be "realistic" and have "real knife fights", so we need to be able to parry, Did anyone actually consider how much work that is ? Just the amount of necessary animations is staggering.

You can always remove the "knife" item from the editor , why don't implement it if it can be implemented?

"can be implemented". That's the key words. See my previous post on thoughts about this subject.

Even if melee is most of the time usless it can really save your (character) ass.. :rolleyes:

It can't. That's a messed up fantasy you people have in your head that you go with a knife against someone with a gun. Heck, even if the other guy is out of ammo, his rifle is still longer than you knife and will be a good club to beat you up with. I guess you don't want to be able to use guns as clubs ? Or do you ?

[ProfTournesol 956]

I play since OFP, and not ONCE did I get in a situation where a knife would have been useful or usable. NOT ONCE! That's why I repeat the question: "Why are knife kills essential in Arma ?" A feature no one missed in ten years of OFP/Arma, essential ?

Because you know exactly what every players want ? BTW it was included in OFP and removed in ArmA.

[Varanon 892]

Because you know exactly what every players want ?

And you do ?

BTW it was included in OFP and removed in ArmA.

knifes in OFP ? Right.

Mods, maybe...

[ProfTournesol 956]

And you do ?

No, but i don't pretend nobody needs it. I do need it, and i know several modders who do.

knifes in OFP ? Right.

Mods, maybe...

Well, as visibly you don't know what you're talking about...the melee simulation was included in OFP vanilla and very useful for modders. Then removed in ArmA.

[Varanon 892]

Well, as visibly you don't know what you're talking about...the melee simulation was included in OFP vanilla and very useful for modders. Then removed in ArmA.

Thanks for the insult. There were no knifes in OFP though. only in mods. Which is exctly what i said, if you even bother to read it.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Thanks for the insult. There were no knifes in OFP though. only in mods. Which is exctly what i said, if you even bother to read it.

There is no intended insult in my words, but you don't seem to be willing to understand : the question is to include IN THE ENGINE the ability of melee (such as "strokegun" and "strokefist" simulations in OFP, which were removed hereafter for whatever reasons). So yes, it was in vanilla OFP, even if there wasn't any knife included... That's why i was able to create a whole Roman and Barbarian mod without any scripted attacks, which isn't possible anymore.

Edited May 2, 2013 by ProfTournesol

[EricM 0]

Melee : baseball bats, golf clubs, swords, bayonets, attack dogs, machetes, fists, rifle stocks.... None of which is useful against a tank, granted, but it is for and against non-conventional forces, angry mobs, zombies, wildlife, reluctant hostages, breaking through a door, getting information...

With wasteland and DayZ being so popular it's still strange to see so many people so oblivious to the fact that it could be useful some day... Use your imagination.

And yes, I've also been playing since OFP demo over a decade ago without it, that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it to come and make its way into the game.

Same as "swimming" ("real soldiers don't swim/jump with 15kg of backpack", right...). It wasn't there before, but I love it now...

[kremator 1065]

So I suppose it comes down to the amount of time that it would take to get the animations, detail them and then ... ? Get AI to use a knife? Recode the FSMs to include knife combat ?

I trust BIS will have already talked about this and have come up with a direction. If they have decided there is time/effort/money for it, it will go in. If not, no amount of bellyaching on this thread will EVER change their mind.

That said, if modders want to have a go, then more power to them. I fully support that.

PS 65 pages left to go ....

[metalcraze 290]

With wasteland and DayZ being so popular it's still strange to see so many people so oblivious to the fact that it could be useful some day... Use your imagination.

Maybe people are not oblivious but just don't want ArmA turned into a ridiculous knife-fest that is BF3 or any modern pseudo-stealth game?

If you will read that big knife thread (and some posts of people wanting it here) people don't want knives to even be realistic or be used by AI. They want to have a magical button that will kill any enemy in one press because they have no clue what ArmA is and want to just be like Elite Tier 1 Operators they see in Hollywood movies.

[killzone_kid 1331]

So I suppose it comes down to the amount of time that it would take to get the animations, detail them and then ... ? Get AI to use a knife? Recode the FSMs to include knife combat ?

I trust BIS will have already talked about this and have come up with a direction. If they have decided there is time/effort/money for it, it will go in. If not, no amount of bellyaching on this thread will EVER change their mind.

That said, if modders want to have a go, then more power to them. I fully support that.

PS 65 pages left to go ....

Oh really, we bring game economy now? Then let's not forget that DayZ made ArmA as popular as it is now BECAUSE of the things you can do with it. And yes melee is major thing you should be able to do. So let's leave this and realism argument out of it.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

Maybe people are not oblivious but just don't want ArmA turned into a ridiculous knife-fest that is BF3

Ahahaha, BF3 is shit you should have played previous BF games to judge knife.

[Variable 322]

i´m amazed most people here are unaware of this vote: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2714

Thanks for the link! Downvoted.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i only see the melee attacks useful in CQB situations, when you enter in a room and collide with an NME unit, then i see it useful; to push him/her away and then gun it down. It's the only situation where i see it useful and where i miss it; i'd never missed any melee attack than that one (hit to push away an NME to then shoot him/her), on the OFP, on the ArmA, the ArmA:QG, the ArmA2 and the dirty ArmA2:OA. Let's C ya

[katipo66 94]

Maybe people are not oblivious but just don't want ArmA turned into a ridiculous knife-fest that is BF3 or any modern pseudo-stealth game?

If you will read that big knife thread (and some posts of people wanting it here) people don't want knives to even be realistic or be used by AI. They want to have a magical button that will kill any enemy in one press because they have no clue what ArmA is and want to just be like Elite Tier 1 Operators they see in Hollywood movies.

Lol bro you are just about the only one who ever mentions these things, and with much drama. But I get where your coming from.. Still I would like to see some form of melée option in game or more specifically stealth kill ability... In cod and bf there is a magic button that kills from any direction, I believe in the other knife thread the idea was that if you were ever able to sneak up from behind on someone you had to actually target a small area on the neck or something similar to achieve a kill, Thats a very different scenario to running around a cod map with instant knife switch/kill for the win.. It would be more useful to discuss ideas on how this melée option might be implemented rather than the same tiring arguments on realism other games.