Advanced Robotics on the Battlefield of 2031

[SaL_iOGC 1]

Don' mess wit da wongs....

Modern armies are looking into advanced robotics (look at the mine sweeping robots and reconnaissance units they are developing), but in 20 years what do think is possible for the near future? Exo-skeletons for infantry (heavy lifting) are already being developed in their nascent forms. Will Arma 3 and the community have a field day modelling these things, or will people sniff their noses at them as being too Sci-Fi? :)

Also what about lasers and drones? Also ACRE won't really be entirely pertinent in the old Arma 2 form as line of site radio will be largely irrelevant unless of course you assume the enemy has punched out your satellites - but even then tiny drones could be used to bounce off comms.

Then there's the completely independent ED209's... I'd comply and drop my weapon in well under 20 seconds. You'd shit yourself too.

Edited April 10, 2013 by SaL_iOGC

[byku 13]

Imo Arma is not futuristic enough(that's not a bad thing in a way). Its gameplay style is very similar(if not identical) to Arma 2 even though its around 22/23 years apart! Electronic warfare and robotics would be a major factor in the future i suppose. Anyway let's see what BIS will do and it would be great that instead of (only) new units will get more sophisticated systems helping a soldier in the battlefield. It's still an alpha, they might have some surprises for us.

Btw. I'm quiet curious what ACE will be in 2035 ;) and about that mythical gauss-tank

[avigrace 1]

Their version of the future may differ from what we expect if all is well in the world. We don't know the history that leads up to the events in the game..

[alx 20]

How about real world combat robotics? Boston Dynamics are doing some amazing stuff that will reach a military use real soon. Imagine an army of their robot dogs armed with bombs storming your position!

http://www.youtube.com/user/BostonDynamics

[scrim 1]

Will the "we'ze gunna have sci-fi r0b0ts in 2035" hype ever stop? I'll say the same old thing: Look at how far we've come since 1993. Why would the pace of technological advance step up by around 1000% the next 20 years? I have still to receive a valid response to that, if any at all.

And I'm guessing ACE will do current things, pretty sure I read a statement from them about that somewhere quite a while back. And to assume that all radios will be via satellites is just naive, especially in a war against someone of even remotely equal technological strength.

[Jex 1]

Remember when RavenShield had heart beat sensor and Ghost Recon had those motion detectors?

[antoineflemming 14]

Uh, you guys do know that there will be UAVs and UCGVs in Arma 3, right? There's screenshots showing them.

[kremator 1065]

Remember when RavenShield had heart beat sensor and Ghost Recon had those motion detectors?

Look for ANIRADAR that has been released. Could be modified for AllUnits :)

[seamusgod 1]

How about real world combat robotics? Boston Dynamics are doing some amazing stuff that will reach a military use real soon. Imagine an army of their robot dogs armed with bombs storming your position!

http://www.youtube.com/user/BostonDynamics

oh cool, i guess in the future those robot dogs cost nothing to produce and can be easily replaced on the battlefield.

i'm with scirm on this one. the people hyping up the robot/future tech angle all sound like children with no grasp of reality or history.

[alx 20]

oh cool, i guess in the future those robot dogs cost nothing to produce and can be easily replaced on the battlefield.

i'm with scirm on this one. the people hyping up the robot/future tech angle all sound like children with no grasp of reality or history.

I don't believe the robot dogs will cost nothing, but for the jobs they are appropriate to, they will cost a whole lot less than humans doing it, if only in the cost of life. The real question is, what roles can these robots perform that are worthwhile to the military? Supply chains through rugged terrain where air support is threatened is one that comes to mind. I doubt they will have an offensive role (but it would be kind of cool and very intimidating to see a swarm of suicide robot dogs storming a position). Perhaps ArmaIII could be used to model the potential roles should a robot dog mod be made?

[Beagle 684]

I don't believe the robot dogs will cost nothing, but for the jobs they are appropriate to, they will cost a whole lot less than humans doing it, if only in the cost of life. The real question is, what roles can these robots perform that are worthwhile to the military? Supply chains through rugged terrain where air support is threatened is one that comes to mind. I doubt they will have an offensive role (but it would be kind of cool and very intimidating to see a swarm of suicide robot dogs storming a position). Perhaps ArmaIII could be used to model the potential roles should a robot dog mod be made?

I don't think you're really aware how cheap human life is compared to advanced military tech. The lower ranks are easily replaced at anytime and volunteers come in sheer numbers even in post 9/11 wartimes due to much better propaganda and indoctrination compared to the vietnam era.

[-=seany=- 5]

I think by 2031, our time, there will be a lot more robotics and remotely controlled weapons and vehicles than in Arma3. There are already many making there way onto the battle field now for testing. Carrier born, pilotless aircraft are already being tested. by 2031 I think will definitely see the concept of 1 human + 4 UAV fighters operating as normal procedure. Maybe even without a human escort.

I think it would have been nice to see a BigDog type robot included. Or other types of robotics/ remotely controlled vehicles. Maybe there will be some though, who knows.

[alx 20]

I don't think you're really aware how cheap human life is compared to advanced military tech. The lower ranks are easily replaced at anytime and volunteers come in sheer numbers even in post 9/11 wartimes due to much better propaganda and indoctrination compared to the vietnam era.

So you think all that recruiting, training, feeding, paying, not to mention the PR hit from having human casualties, is cheaper than a mass produced robot?! You are kidding? Have a look here (these costs are simply the 'running' costs and don't include the capital investment in recruitment and training);

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/28/one-soldier-one-year-850000-and-rising/

I can accept that these prototype robots are very expensive at the moment, but if they are accepted as useful in the field and put into production, they won't be. For instance, the Devil Pup bomb detecting robot costs about $116,000 each. There's nothing particularly sophisticated about the robot dog hardware. The real art has come in developing the software to control them. Also, consider that at the moment, the US military drops hugely expensive ordinance (typically from $30,000 - $200,000 per bomb) on just one enemy simply as a precaution for a single squad.

[Lunatic 10]

There are some very naive comments in this thread.

Firstly: The Military now works on force multiplication. Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor. For example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is five. Such estimates are used to justify an investment cost for force multipliers. A force multiplier refers to a factor that dramatically increases (hence "multiplies") the effectiveness of an item or group.

So what do we currently use and where have we come from since 1993. The Bosnian war lead to an uptake in PGM (Precision Guided Munitions), such as paveway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition This required a lasing platform and an attack platform. Where are we now, with the likes of JDAM, the bomb does all the work using GPS. How has this multiplied the force, in effect one plane can fly to a target, designate and fire and forget a bomb. One platform free to do other tasks.

In the first gulf war there was a significant uptake of the Apache, this also needed two platforms, the Kiowa as a spotter and the Apache to attach, since then the longbow has been developed, which melded the Apache and Kiowa into one frame.

WRT robots and the military, we are using more and more drones, including toy like helicopters. With miniaturization (think of a 1993 mobile phone Vs todays), the looming nano-tech era will again bring smaller and smaller more capable devices, leading to new interesting and novel ways to use tech in defence.

So the likes of Big Dog, UAVs, Stealth UAVs, the arming of Reaper etc, who knows where we will be, but do not think for a second that there won't be more robotics in the military, if it's a force multiplier, it will be there.

What we can say, is that until true VR exists and robots can replace the reactions and speed etc of a man, then without these two being joined in one item, boots will always be needed on the ground, just less of them.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello there

I would prefer to see more unmanned vehicles for support/intel roles. I don't see "suicide dog bots" happening as there's far cheaper/effective ways of clearing positions.

I do think that the reliance on personal/squad tech will be greater and I would like to see these avenues explored further.

There will always be the fundamental basics of the standard infantryman in the field, but i believe there will be sweeping changes.

Look at the rail systems we have now and the plethora of sight types/laser pointers etc which were not on the whole present as "standard" 20 years ago.

I also would like to see low tech factions included, (insurgents etc) who'll be using a wide range of new/old/"ancient" tech.

Rgds

LoK

[antoineflemming 14]

There are some very naive comments in this thread.

Firstly: The Military now works on force multiplication. Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor. For example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is five. Such estimates are used to justify an investment cost for force multipliers. A force multiplier refers to a factor that dramatically increases (hence "multiplies") the effectiveness of an item or group.

So what do we currently use and where have we come from since 1993. The Bosnian war lead to an uptake in PGM (Precision Guided Munitions), such as paveway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition This required a lasing platform and an attack platform. Where are we now, with the likes of JDAM, the bomb does all the work using GPS. How has this multiplied the force, in effect one plane can fly to a target, designate and fire and forget a bomb. One platform free to do other tasks.

In the first gulf war there was a significant uptake of the Apache, this also needed two platforms, the Kiowa as a spotter and the Apache to attach, since then the longbow has been developed, which melded the Apache and Kiowa into one frame.

WRT robots and the military, we are using more and more drones, including toy like helicopters. With miniaturization (think of a 1993 mobile phone Vs todays), the looming nano-tech era will again bring smaller and smaller more capable devices, leading to new interesting and novel ways to use tech in defence.

So the likes of Big Dog, UAVs, Stealth UAVs, the arming of Reaper etc, who knows where we will be, but do not think for a second that there won't be more robotics in the military, if it's a force multiplier, it will be there.

What we can say, is that until true VR exists and robots can replace the reactions and speed etc of a man, then without these two being joined in one item, boots will always be needed on the ground, just less of them.

Well, regardless, I doubt we will ever see the day where robots replace men. There will always be someone operating an unmanned robot.

[hekuball 10]

Some people in this thread seem to be burying their heads in the sand about the future of robotic technology. The replacement of humans on the battlefield with robots is inevitable, just as the replacement of clubs and swords was with guns once they'd been developed. Lunatic has a good point with the force multiplication angle, add to that the shielding from harm of human combatants then you have the perfect weapon. But hey, were not here to gaze at our crystal balls all night are we? Might be interesting to introduce robots in a mod, not my cup o tea personally though.

[SaL_iOGC 1]

The replacement of humans on the battlefield

How freaked out would you be when this Western army of liberation arrives and they're all robots?? :) ED 209's for instance??! :) My OP ought not to have referenced autonomous robotics - was merely asking what would be pertinent for a war in a mere 20 years from now; and that was an unrealistic flight of fancy. (Forgive.. never saw the posts just like this before. New bar, same conversation).

Rail guns for tanks easily possible. Fully robotic supply vehicles (A robot lorry lost out slightly against a human driven 4x4 on rugged terrain in a recent Top Gear UK - amazing stuff). The Objective Individual Combat Weapon – the M-29 is here already and loved by frontline troops in Afghanistan. Technology is maturing in mil-tech and those crazy ideas from the 70-80's are now fully taking shape, and will be rolled out sooner than you think.

Edited April 13, 2013 by SaL_iOGC

[scrim 1]

There are some very naive comments in this thread.

Firstly: The Military now works on force multiplication. Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor. For example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is five. Such estimates are used to justify an investment cost for force multipliers. A force multiplier refers to a factor that dramatically increases (hence "multiplies") the effectiveness of an item or group.

So what do we currently use and where have we come from since 1993. The Bosnian war lead to an uptake in PGM (Precision Guided Munitions), such as paveway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munition This required a lasing platform and an attack platform. Where are we now, with the likes of JDAM, the bomb does all the work using GPS. How has this multiplied the force, in effect one plane can fly to a target, designate and fire and forget a bomb. One platform free to do other tasks.

In the first gulf war there was a significant uptake of the Apache, this also needed two platforms, the Kiowa as a spotter and the Apache to attach, since then the longbow has been developed, which melded the Apache and Kiowa into one frame.

WRT robots and the military, we are using more and more drones, including toy like helicopters. With miniaturization (think of a 1993 mobile phone Vs todays), the looming nano-tech era will again bring smaller and smaller more capable devices, leading to new interesting and novel ways to use tech in defence.

So the likes of Big Dog, UAVs, Stealth UAVs, the arming of Reaper etc, who knows where we will be, but do not think for a second that there won't be more robotics in the military, if it's a force multiplier, it will be there.

What we can say, is that until true VR exists and robots can replace the reactions and speed etc of a man, then without these two being joined in one item, boots will always be needed on the ground, just less of them.

Yeah, pretty much not a single one of those things are new. Force mulitplying is hardly a new thing, GPSs aren't, precision guided munitions aren't, and the Apaches operated pretty much by themselves in the first Gulf war. The only difference now is that they got the surveillance equipment from the Commanche helicopter when it was scrapped, which is an upgrade, not a new chopper.

[nodunit 397]

Yeah, pretty much not a single one of those things are new. Force mulitplying is hardly a new thing, GPSs aren't, precision guided munitions aren't, and the Apaches operated pretty much by themselves in the first Gulf war. The only difference now is that they got the surveillance equipment from the Commanche helicopter when it was scrapped, which is an upgrade, not a new chopper.

Not quite, for survelliance the apache always had TADS, the first delta prototype (with all the digital bits n bobs) flew in 1992 and the first commanche proto in 1995, the longbow is the commanche's parent, not the other way around.

But if you also want to talk about force multiplier then I suppose The AH-64D-E are great examples, able to cross communicate, share information without radar equipment, able to issue call for fires, transfer digital information across various platforms, can share laser codes and thus laser targets, (the radar fire and forget itself ability itself), and now with block III able to view UAV feeds and control them, share the feeds of other apache's, allow the pilot and cpg to see the same thing, transfer weapon control, swap tasks, the monocle being able to pipe in flight and target data...hell even the MPD frames have buttons to quickly take you to specific mission important pages in one press.

So theres another example of force multiplier.

[scrim 1]

It's still just an upgrade. Comparing what is basically communications and software upgrades in a helicopter to having actualy robots walking around is not valid, it's just the same old naive "future forecasts" that people have made for hundreds of years.

[nodunit 397]

Wasn't a comparison of robots though, just the force multiplier thing, having one thing do more ( a bit OOT but just helping to enforce a point)

I stopped believing in future casts after the future soldier programs.

[BelgarionNL 10]

can't wait to see the UGV's and backpack size UAV's in the beta!

but more then that no! a lot of the arma players already don't like the setting and vehicles that are in now! if you go any further you will alienate the fanbase! I also believe that way more people will download ACE this time around just because they like that setting better!

[Kieran 11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDg4j64kkoo

[antoineflemming 14]

can't wait to see the UGV's and backpack size UAV's in the beta!

but more then that no! a lot of the arma players already don't like the setting and vehicles that are in now! if you go any further you will alienate the fanbase! I also believe that way more people will download ACE this time around just because they like that setting better!

First, too many exclamation points. Second, pretty sure there won't be an ACE for Arma 3.