Up to my Old Tricks again: God like powers of Vision

[dmakatra 1]

If BI implemented an option to remove all foliage, would you say "ok I'll just use that setting as well because everyone else has access to it " Or "hey man it's a free world, just pick servers that don't enable the option of foliage removal" ?

Now, this is a rather interesting point to bring up. Because the option already exists. At least that's how it used to be in older versions of Arma (not sure about A3), server settings dictates stuff like view distance and foliage. It's there for a reason, because it doesn't limit people. If you're setting up a game and a couple of your friends have a crappy computer, then you're still able to play the game because of this. Don't like it? Hey man, it's a free world, just pick servers that don't enable the option of foliage removal. ;)

I don't care if 3rd person isn't realistic or not. People that like 3rd person raise several good points (situational awareness, etc.) and people that are against it raise a few fair good points as well. But it doesn't matter. The question is why do you want to limit something that is an OPTION? Hey, I hate respawn. I think it's in the way of tactical gameplay as people take death less seriously. Does that mean I advocate for BIS to remove the possibility of adding respawn to the game, and thus more or less actively kill off 90 % of the PvP-community? No, I don't. Because I realise that there are people that enjoy the game in a different way than I do. You badly, badly need to realise this as well.

[Atkins 10]

Removing 3rd person altogether is never going to happen. That feature is there to stay. So many ppl are used to it after 10+ years of using it that it would just raise a hellstorm if it was completely removed.

Allowing to remove the foliage altogether is btw pretty good comparison to this "issue". It would be a bit silly to do so in a PvP server, which would force everyone to remove foliage just to be in the same starting line. Nevertheless admins can do this if they so wish. I would appreciate if they just told this in the server description.

Anyway, to the OP; Just leave the issue, there is nothing u (or I) can do about it. It is always the server/unit owners decision if they go with the lower nominators or not.

What I wait is PR:A3 to be released which will "fix" this issue.

[Reuben5150 2]

Dont see the need for 3rd person player view, infact i was quite supprised to find it even existed in arma.

My preference would be 3rd person option only in vehicles or aircraft.

[CoSm1c_gAm3r 1]

I can magically see around corners, look over hills when approaching enemies, and get a god like view of the battlefield Via 3rd person. Heaven help my nubile mortal adversary stuck in "real" mode and only using 1rst person.

Why, Just why… Please tell me the main reason why 3rds person even exists?

Military simulator: realism, awesome sfx, tactics, realistic ballistics, life like maps, authenticity of weapons and damage,,, & god like ability to see around corners,,, (facepalm)

Please don't polarize the server list by making it a server option. Deep down you know there is no place for it in a realistic game, remove altogether.

I so so sooo sooooooo MUCH agre with you ! In 101%

I sign under your post with both my hands and even my 2 legs and ..... ok this one would be inappropriate :)

For me 3rd person view in sim game is like making bike with 4 wheels and still call it motorbike instead of QUADbike.

I always didnt undersatd 3rd person view in arma series. Even if you dont want to use it you by time are FORCED to use it because others just own you like noob because they see more!

In arma 3 I even was able to see through some walls to the other side when using 3 person view. If someone would ask me what is the worst thing in ARMA series I would say..... guess what?!...... YES, 3rd person view !

I was playing many games eoen uber arcadish ones like CS:GO and even there is no option to play using 3rd person view but playing SIM game like ARMA I got option to enable magic camera behind my *** and be like cheater who knows what is above walls and I dont even need to lean from behind corners because of that retarded 3rd person option... So In my opinion arma is not sim game, it is just more complicated Battlefield game. To bad... TO BAD.

[Frankdatank1218 39]

Now, this is a rather interesting point to bring up. Because the option already exists. At least that's how it used to be in older versions of Arma (not sure about A3), server settings dictates stuff like view distance and foliage. It's there for a reason, because it doesn't limit people. If you're setting up a game and a couple of your friends have a crappy computer, then you're still able to play the game because of this. Don't like it? Hey man, it's a free world, just pick servers that don't enable the option of foliage removal. ;)

I don't care if 3rd person isn't realistic or not. People that like 3rd person raise several good points (situational awareness, etc.) and people that are against it raise a few fair good points as well. But it doesn't matter. The question is why do you want to limit something that is an OPTION? Hey, I hate respawn. I think it's in the way of tactical gameplay as people take death less seriously. Does that mean I advocate for BIS to remove the possibility of adding respawn to the game, and thus more or less actively kill off 90 % of the PvP-community? No, I don't. Because I realise that there are people that enjoy the game in a different way than I do. You badly, badly need to realise this as well.

Spawning isn't cheating/exploiting though.

And, "People that like 3rd person raise several good points (situational awareness, etc.)" NO! Situational awareness is the only point raised, and it's irrelevant because there are other factors in place to address it that aren't cheap and exploitable. Expandable FOV, freelook, periphery dots, THESE address situational awareness issue far more fairly and tactically.

[dsi24 12]

Spawning isn't cheating/exploiting though.

And, "People that like 3rd person raise several good points (situational awareness, etc.)" NO! Situational awareness is the only point raised, and it's irrelevant because there are other factors in place to address it that aren't cheap and exploitable. Expandable FOV, freelook, periphery dots, THESE address situational awareness issue far more fairly and tactically.

The peripheral dots are exploitable just like third person is (the only difference is that you can't see exactly what people are doing with the dots, just their general movement direction)

FoV (numpad +/-) and freelook are more than enough for situational awareness, and neither of these can be exploited to see through walls like third person can.

[spaceBeluga 10]

It's an optional feature, it won't be removed and it shouldn't be. We can all agree with that, right? However, take a minute and think about the exploitability of it, especially with all this sudden interest of the community in pvp.

What is healthier from a gameplay perspective (we're talking pvp here)? To have players getting a bit more exposed when peeking around corners or simply using their magic Eye of Thundera to see around corners, doors/windows, trees etc? Let's face it: using 3rd person to lay down in a roof and having a 300° panorama of your surroundings with zero exposal of your body is both unrealistic and a broken mechanic (again, we're talking PVP-ONLY).

By the way, I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should play their game...I know 3rd person looks nice and all, and you can get quite nice shots if you're making a video or taking a screenshot, but talking pvp-wise, do you people REALLY prefer having 3rd person enabled and exploit it than playing it 'properly'? I say 'properly' because, as clunky as some people claim the controls in 1stP are/feel, it doesn't break any pvp mechanics.

I can't say I was surprised that 3rd person servers were the majority when DayZ popularity exploded. It's a natural thing, with the insane influx of new players. It takes a good while to get the feel of the game, specially if you never played a simulator before and were used to arcade FPS, but it is kind of sad that most people now seem to prefer 'competing' using this kind of broken mechanics despite the ArmA series being about simulation.

You are playing a pvp match where you HAVE to exploit the camera to prevail. How about simply playing it smart and applying better (and healthier pvp-wise) tactics? Maybe outmaneuvering the enemy? Have you guys ever taken a look at this very detailed strategy guide http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/?

*NEWCOMERS* Please, give 1st person-only servers a try before saying anything about them.

Well, this is my 2 cents, I hope I can still find decent servers with realism settings after the game is released =/

[Dallas 9]

I'm glad you put "properly" in quotes, maybe you should also put "exploit" in quotes too, because no matter how much you try to "redefine" this feature as a "cheat" it's not.

[chortles 263]

you can disable it server side, why You complain about optional option enriching the variety for more players who for example like 3rd person view

expect soon servers to use combined 1st/3rd person settings with 3rd person disabled for infantry and enabled for vehicles etc.

Man this is just going to heighten the complaints of Arma 3 becoming more like Battlefield 3... :D

But then again, I showed up for the sandbox more than "milsim" anyway. :p

[spaceBeluga 10]

I'm glad you put "properly" in quotes, maybe you should also put "exploit" in quotes too, because no matter how much you try to "redefine" this feature as a "cheat" it's not.

It is not a cheat if you're in a server that allows it, that is pretty obvious. The problem is that you are trying to use a mechanic CLEARLY not intended to be used this way when playing against other people. And in a freaking simulation game, you walk to the damn corner/window/whatever the obstruction and you take your damn peek.

You shouldn't be able to take advantage of a third person expanded camera view to magically look around corners (again, only if you're serious about playing against other people), no matter how much exposed you get or whatever other silly excuse people want do throw (like they use 3rd person because grass blocks the view while prone. hint: that's why you use the newly added tactical sitting).

I fear for this community if the majority of players think it's ok to sacrifice proper gameplay controls/mechanics so you can see how pretty your character looks.

[Defunkt 431]

expect soon servers to use combined 1st/3rd person settings with 3rd person disabled for infantry and enabled for vehicles etc.

Can we have more options along those lines while you're at it? Like 3rd-person and/or tactical view only for players in command of other units (that might already be true of the tactical view)?

[tortuosit 486]

It is not a cheat if you're in a server that allows it, that is pretty obvious. The problem is that you are trying to use a mechanic CLEARLY not intended to be used this way when playing against other people.

Huh? It's allowed on a server but if you play against others on this server, it's cheating? IBTD.

[Defunkt 431]

@topic: It's up to the server-op which is precisely how it should be. Bored with topics by the-few trying to insist that the-many should be required play with their preferred settings. Put your hand in your pocket or get involved with a community so you can see your favourite settings used, that's why others invest the time and the money.

Or you could come on here and have a cry about how everybody should be running their servers the way you want...

[Frankdatank1218 39]

@topic: It's up to the server-op which is precisely how it should be. Bored with topics by the-few trying to insist that the-many should be required play with their preferred settings. Put your hand in your pocket or get involved with a community so you can see your favourite settings used, that's why others invest the time and the money.

Or you could come on here and have a cry about how everybody should be running their servers the way you want...

Oh shut up, it's an exploit that breaks PVP and you all know it. I thought ARMA forums were more mature than "If someone has a legitimate complaint about a gameplay feature they must be QQ-ing".

[liquidpinky 11]

you can disable it server side, why You complain about optional option enriching the variety for more players who for example like 3rd person view

expect soon servers to use combined 1st/3rd person settings with 3rd person disabled for infantry and enabled for vehicles etc.

So it is okay for leetists to tin can camp in a tank and be all seeing and some poor sap trying to satchel the camping dicks is forced to look through tunnel vision like a horse with blinkers on.

Also, switch to third while battling in forests versus first person users and then they become the cheaters seeing through all that foliage easily. :P

A decent stance indicator would help when moving to first person, half the time I use it just to see what my guy is up too.

[concurssi 11]

it's an exploit that breaks PVP

It really isn't. It's a feature that some people like. It's fine to have a legitimate complaint, but the solution has been offered time and time again in this thread: find a PvP server with 3rd person disabled.

Again, can't find one?

Again, tough luck. Make your own.

I still wish it was disabled on default for veteran, but it's ridiculous to suggest that it be removed from the game, as someone did.

This thread is just trampling in place now with the same things being repeated again and again.

[ProfTournesol 956]

It really isn't. It's a feature that some people like. It's fine to have a legitimate complaint, but the solution has been offered time and time again in this thread: find a PvP server with 3rd person disabled.

Again, can't find one?

Again, tough luck. Make your own.

I still wish it was disabled on default for veteran, but it's ridiculous to suggest that it be removed from the game, as someone did.

This thread is just trampling in place now with the same things being repeated again and again.

Exactly. At least, this topic is useful.

[spaceBeluga 10]

It really isn't. It's a feature that some people like.

Although it's completely stupid to even think about removing the damn feature from the game, i disagree with you. It IS an exploit that breaks pvp IMHO, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a feature many people like, obviously.

But do you guys really think it doesn't hurt pvp AT ALL? Really? I mean, I thought I was pointing to the elefant in the room. It is clearly a feature that is completely out of place in the pvp context. Even most arcade shooters don't have this option at all, but you all think it's ok in a military simulator? Makes little sense to me.

[concurssi 11]

But do you guys really think it doesn't hurt pvp AT ALL? Really?

No, it doesn't. It's an option, and if you willingly do PvP on a server with 3rd person enabled, rather than finding a server that has it disabled, you are accepting it's effect on the game. It changes PvP, but it doesn't necessarily hurt it; it's all to do with how you want to play the game.

[spaceBeluga 10]

No, it doesn't. It's an option, and if you willingly do PvP on a server with 3rd person enabled, rather than finding a server that has it disabled, you are accepting it's effect on the game. It changes PvP, but it doesn't necessarily hurt it; it's all to do with how you want to play the game.

You are correct, I know the only solution is to join a server with proper realism setings, but my main problem with it is the HUGE inclination of the playerbase towards this kind of gameplay. My fear is that 1st person servers will become rarer and rarer (a pvp example: Try finding say like, DayZ servers with realism settings. I just tried on DayZ Commander, and it shows 18 servers without 3rd person out of 6061 found) and that Bohemia will eventually tend to adjust their games to this kind of playerbase.

My posts in this thread are an attempt to make people see it from another angle, not convince them to play the style I like the most.

edit: Missed some words.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think its been well established that the default difficulty settings need to be changed (if they're the problem, just in case it's a problem of lazy admin :))) and that the complaint is toward the server setup not the game itself. As such complain to the PvP playerbase, or at least those that set up servers.

[tortuosit 486]

Even if BI removed this OPTION (which they won't do), people (1337 v3t3r4ns!!!!!111!!, "I play ArmA since OFP!1!!") will find other ways to expose their dick size. Nature of human beings.

[bad benson 1733]

It changes PvP, but it doesn't necessarily hurt it

sorry but that is nonsense. you either haven't played/are playing proper PvP yourself or you don't know how to use 3rd person to your advantage. not saying it should be removed or forced by the game itself or anything. it's just that it can be exploited a lot. this doesn't mean that one person has an advantage over another per say but in certain situations especially in cqc it does. it doesn't mean it makes the game unfair because, well, everyone could just camp behind corners or on roofs and wait till someone he spotted while being 100% concealed turns around and then stand up/lean and shot him. this might not be as obvious or important in large scale PvP like arma PR but in any cqc situation it's drastically changing gameplay.

the point is not that it's unfair. it is that it simply degrades cqc PvP to something that doesn't resemble realistic cqc at all.

it's a problematic issue since 3rd person is certainly a core feature of the ofp/arma series. there are PvP gamemodes like AAS for arma that use scripting to disable 3rd person no matter what settings the server has. i think the responsibility lies with the mission makers and server admins to ensure there can be a proper "pvp culture". i personally would play more PvP if it had clearer rules. not because i get owned by people using the exploit but because i feel cheap using it myself. which i do a lot when it's available (which it is 90% of the time):D.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Even if BI removed this OPTION (which they won't do), people (1337 v3t3r4ns!!!!!111!!, "I play ArmA since OFP!1!!") will find other ways to expose their dick size. Nature of human beings.

Grow up.

[Frankdatank1218 39]

So it is okay for leetists to tin can camp in a tank and be all seeing and some poor sap trying to satchel the camping dicks is forced to look through tunnel vision like a horse with blinkers on.

Okay, a legitimate point but it's still better than everyone having 3rd person at all times. I ultimately would like it disabled for everything.

Also, switch to third while battling in forests versus first person users and then they become the cheaters seeing through all that foliage easily. :P

Lolwut? That's just realistic, a first person view is better for being in the midst of clutter foiliage. Unlike third person which is both unrealistic AND unfair, if something is at least realistic OR fair I'll accept it, but when it's niether it has got to go.

A decent stance indicator would help when moving to first person, half the time I use it just to see what my guy is up too.

Agreed.