Up to my Old Tricks again: God like powers of Vision

[Fuse 1]

Tip for you guys hating on 3rd person: Make your own server! Then you can play exactly how you want, they can play how they want, and we can all learn that options are a good thing. :)

If you play on 3rd person servers and get killed because you don't use it you are the only person to blame. Find a server that doesn't cater to newbies.

[Dallas 9]

Hey Dallas, how do you fight against third person?

One of the hallmarks of an exploit is that it is unbeatable in practice, and there sure is no way to beat someone you don't know exists but knows you exist through a magical wallhack camera :)

I switch to sights and pull the trigger and try to be an unpredictable and moving target.

Since it's a difficulty setting and it's available to anyone playing on the server, so no, you can't get away with labeling it as a cheat or a hack or exploit. I also play with people, who disable first person in PvP/Coop, still it shouldn't prevent me from joining or hosting third person severs whenever I want to.

Sorry you don't get to dictate how other people manage their difficulty settings.

[spaceBeluga 10]

I switch to sights and pull the trigger and try to be an unpredictable and moving target.

No, you don't because you have no idea where your enemy is because he is exploiting the 3rd person camera so you can't freaking see him while he can see you.

Since it's a difficulty setting and it's available to anyone playing on the server, so no, you can't get away with labeling it as a cheat or a hack or exploit.

It isn't a hack, it isn't a cheat, but I'm sorry, it is an exploit. Using 3rd person to see through walls isn't an intended use for it, specially in a game that's supposed to be realistic.

I also play with people, who disable first person in PvP/Coop, still it shouldn't prevent me from joining or hosting third person severs whenever I want to.

Are you really afraid that your beloved 3rd person camera will be taken off the game? It won't.

Sorry you don't get to dictate how other people manage their difficulty settings.

This is correct. The problem is, most newcomers don't even give 1st person a chance, and they're not inclined to do so, since 99% of the servers have 3rd person on by default.

"Everyone does it" is the common response. Not an exploit right?

[dayglow 2]

Just means it popular.

[Fuse 1]

This is correct. The problem is, most newcomers don't even give 1st person a chance, and they're not inclined to do so, since 99% of the servers have 3rd person on by default.

"Everyone does it" is the common response. Not an exploit right?

In my experience this is not the case. Most servers running the wanna-be MMO gank mods use 3rd person because their players aren't there for realism so much as griefing. Most of the good servers I've seen running the real game do not use 3rd person. You may be getting the wrong idea from the current server list. Most of the servers up right now are set up pretty poorly, but that will change as the admins learn. Again, that's just my experience. I admit that I could never fully get in to Arma 2.

Are you really afraid that your beloved 3rd person camera will be taken off the game? It won't.

So we can all stop arguing and be friends now, right? :)

[spaceBeluga 10]

So we can all stop arguing and be friends now, right? :)

Meh, this thread isn't going anywhere =/

[Frankdatank1218 39]

I switch to sights and pull the trigger and try to be an unpredictable and moving target.

Since it's a difficulty setting and it's available to anyone playing on the server, so no, you can't get away with labeling it as a cheat or a hack or exploit. I also play with people, who disable first person in PvP/Coop, still it shouldn't prevent me from joining or hosting third person severs whenever I want to.

Sorry you don't get to dictate how other people manage their difficulty settings.

"I switch to sights and pull the trigger and try to be an unpredictable and moving target."

Switch sights on what? The guy who's position you can't possibly be aware of? You can hit a moving target, and it's hard to be unpredictable when someone can observe you without ANY means of you being aware of it.

"you can't get away with labeling it as a cheat or a hack or exploit."

You obviously have no idea of the specifics of the definitions of a cheat or exploit. Exploits are a form of cheating, and since third person's purpose was NOT so player's can see around obstacles inhumanly, you are exploiting third person to give you an unfair advantage (AKA CHEATING). And "well everyone has it available" is pointless, we can all cheat and hack if we want to, we are all capable of it, but it does not justify it.

[Dallas 9]

The game allows you to use third person, just like the game allows you to use sights. It's perfectly within the games parameters, it's a feature readily available for everyone on the server, so you don't have an advantage over other players on the server. You might place yourself at an advantageous position, but all these positions are known to most veteran players and we don't expose us to these positions.

So while you're sitting behind a corner, you'll still only have a very short window to engage a moving target and when you turn that wall or corner, the moment has usually passed. When you're heading into a hostile AO you naturally assume danger is near and take your precautions. Whether you know someone already has spotted you or not, you still have to be ready to react defensively/offensively, whenever the first shot rings out. You also have to make it as hard as possible for the shooter to release that first shot and if and often when he misses the first shot, you either sprint for the cover you always keep close at hand or you present yourself as a sitting duck, waiting to be put down.

I'm not an active playerkiller, but I don't feel I'm at a big disadvantage on third person servers. Maybe because I know in PvP, the one that sets the pace, maintains the initiative and survives.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Dallas

[Assifuah 1]

Play on Elite difficulty then? It's a setting that's up to you, and there's a few servers that are on Elite as well. Personally I play 1st person only, unless I'm in the editor. Not to mention I liked to look at the new animations for a while, but when it comes to actual gameplay on servers be it TvT or COOP I like 1st person only.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

What's this game classified as? Is it arcade? Is it action-adventure? No, it's a !@#$ing SIMULATOR.

Last time I checked, I can't move my perspective in real life to behind my body and watch myself from third person. This SIMULATOR wouldn't be doing a good job of SIMULATING real life if it allowed me to do that, now would it?

[Dusty926 1]

What's this game classified as? Is it arcade? Is it action-adventure? No, it's a !@#$ing SIMULATOR.

Last time I checked, I can't move my perspective in real life to behind my body and watch myself from third person. This SIMULATOR wouldn't be doing a good job of SIMULATING real life if it allowed me to do that, now would it?

NO! The Arma series are GAMES! The other version of Arma (it's name escapes me) is a SIMULATOR! You know, the version that costs a few hundred bucks. Everyone seems to misunderstand that. Arma is not a simulator, more-so just an extremely realistic game. And being a game, it comes with unrealistic OPTIONS. OPTIONS. OPTIONS. I need to repeat OPTIONS to emphasize that they are OPTIONAL. Knowing BI, no matter what you say, and what you do, 3rd Person is here to stay. Live with it, and learn to respect other people's opinions.

[spaceBeluga 10]

NO! The Arma series are GAMES!

He didn't say they weren't games, read the post again.

[Dusty926 1]

He didn't say they weren't games, read the post again.

I read the post and he's naming it a simulator, which it is not. Game and Simulator are 2 different things albeit they fall under the same category.

[ProfTournesol 956]

What's this game classified as? Is it arcade? Is it action-adventure? No, it's a !@#$ing SIMULATOR.

Last time I checked, I can't move my perspective in real life to behind my body and watch myself from third person. This SIMULATOR wouldn't be doing a good job of SIMULATING real life if it allowed me to do that, now would it?

It doesn't simulate the fact that in RL you can feel your body, and in games you cannot, even with trackIr or whatever. 1st person isn't more realistic than 3rd person view in that extent.

[spaceBeluga 10]

It doesn't simulate the fact that in RL you can feel your body, and in games you cannot, even with trackIr or whatever. 1st person isn't more realistic than 3rd person view in that extent.

That's stand up comedy material, seriously. I give up, this whole thread is pointless and full of nonsense.

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's stand up comedy material, seriously. I give up, this whole thread is pointless and full of nonsense.

If you're not able to discuss in a grown up manner, do it.

[tonygrunt 10]

What's this game classified as? Is it arcade? Is it action-adventure? No, it's a !@#$ing SIMULATOR.

Last time I checked, I can't move my perspective in real life to behind my body and watch myself from third person. This SIMULATOR wouldn't be doing a good job of SIMULATING real life if it allowed me to do that, now would it?

From what I searched in google MS Flight Simulator, DCS series of flight simulators and VBS2 allow optional 3rd person view (correct me if I am wrong) and these games (or training software in the case of VBS2) are regarded as simulators. Why should your personal opinion about what the games allows, be forced on to others?

And if you wanted real simulations you should be campaigning for no respawns (you only live once), no teleports (not yet invented) and no balancing of weapons or forces (who heard of warfare between 2 enemy forces with the same number of soldiers).

Please stop complaining for choosing to play in a server with 3rd person enabled, nobody forces you, just go to 1st person server or make your own.

[Dallas 9]

In my experience if you are unhappy with the server selection, you have an option is to create your own, muster the patience and effort to build up a consistent reputation for your server. This will take time, but it can be done and if you deliver a consistent experience, people will join and they will come back.

But you have to change your perspective, stop attempting to dictate other servers and start making your own server a desirable place.

[chortles 263]

start making your own server a desirable place.

Sounds like that's gonna be the hardest part of it... seriously Dallas, no words further needed, this game is more a sandbox than a simulator anyway. :rolleyes:

[Fuse 1]

Don't stop now, guys. I just made a fresh batch of popcorn! :)

[Elutheral 10]

Seriously someone close this damn thread.

[Aix 1]

I couldn't help but be amused when I stumbled onto what basically amounts to this thread over on the Star Citizen forums today entitled "Why alll the hate for 3rd person view" (I apparently can't post links on my first day registered).

Personally, I don't really understand how it even needs to be explained to people that having a 3rd person view that allows you to see over obstacles and around corners is completely ruinous to competitive FPS gameplay. When someone using proper battlefield tactics in first-person mode can be thwarted by another player pressing "ENTER" you basically take all the cool realism from Arma and flush it down the drain.

I wouldn't want 3rd person to be removed, but I would certainly want it removed from default server settings on anything but recruit. Many server operators leave options like this at stock and it would be so disappointing if most pubs were automatically zones where any player could recon your movements without requiring any LOS.

[Randolf 1]

From what I searched in google MS Flight Simulator, DCS series of flight simulators and VBS2 allow optional 3rd person view (correct me if I am wrong) and these games (or training software in the case of VBS2) are regarded as simulators. Why should your personal opinion about what the games allows, be forced on to others?

And if you wanted real simulations you should be campaigning for no respawns (you only live once), no teleports (not yet invented) and no balancing of weapons or forces (who heard of warfare between 2 enemy forces with the same number of soldiers).

Please stop complaining for choosing to play in a server with 3rd person enabled, nobody forces you, just go to 1st person server or make your own.

It does, and I have to admit that I abuse it a lot. In DCS Black Shark (the Helicopter one), it is very important to maintain constant awarness on the locations of enemy SAM sites. This isn't very easy to achieve during a mission since there is lots of things going on and the cockpit obstructs your view greatly. In the heat of battle it is very easy to get confused and lose your awaraness and thats where this magic button comes in: I just hit f2 and abra kadabra! I'm completly aware of my surroundings again. It's definitely cheating just as much as it is to select the arcade flight model from options. :P

I can also use it to "look" behind hills when scanning for possible SAM threats... It very easily becomes a habit thats hard to get rid of.

Not that little cheating was really an issue, but I understand that in a pvp environment it can really water down the immersion.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Randolf

[spaceBeluga 10]

Personally, I don't really understand how it even needs to be explained to people that having a 3rd person view that allows you to see over obstacles and around corners is completely ruinous to competitive FPS gameplay. When someone using proper battlefield tactics in first-person mode can be thwarted by another player pressing "ENTER" you basically take all the cool realism from Arma and flush it down the drain.

People know that. They all know it hurts pvp, but they keep denying/bringing up all these stupid excuses you can see throughout this thread because 3rd person "looks cool".

The fact thay this ammount of players is actively CHOOSING to sacrifice proper gameplay for a "clever use of game mechanics" (or exploit) makes me fear for the future of ArmA.

Edited March 16, 2013 by spaceBeluga

[ProfTournesol 956]

nvm, delete me.