[SP/MP] Dynamic Whole Map ArmA3 Missions by SaOk

[SaOk 112]

When there is one year long competition making the editing serious and extra stressfull, its not small deal that the entry isnt even judged properly. Would it be nice for you to work on something very long, getting highest support from people that share the interest, then some random folk looks at it for few seconds and says they dont kind like the box around the project. You make something and its not even looked what it is. Thats definitely something to forgot in few days. Yes, I was only after the money in that competition. If they would have informed its about image, I wouldnt have bothered to take part since that is not my area. ArmA3 editing is a separate hobby, but not very easy to continue on that after the competition farce.

Didnt say they need reverse the decision but compensate that they left me totally out. No need to send any messages, especially if you dont see the point. Yes, jury was meant to decide the winners without player votes having any effect, but its insane that the outcome was heavily different. The competition clearly wasnt after special game modes and "out of the box"-thinking as they advertised the competition first. Its was all about the first impression. Not about orginality and replay-value. They most likely only meant good but it ended as mocking toward content creators in community.

Edited March 29, 2015 by SaOk

[teilx 4]

I can only imagine your disappointment, but to quit the community all together seems rather childish.

haha, it is his own decicison and not a childish post like yours.

good luck Saok ......

Edited March 29, 2015 by TeilX

[ppavia 10]

if i understand, our vote on makearmanotwar was not important ??

[Jona33 51]

if i understand, our vote on makearmanotwar was not important ??

The vote selects the finalists, the jury selects the winners from the finalists.

[alsanjuro 20]

SaOk your missions are the best both single and multiplayer that is all i play and not to mention to thank you for including support to other maps. Your missions are very replayable what I like about it is i dont have to follow steps from A to B i can pick what enemy postions to hit and where to set up camp unlike other campaings out there where you are told what to do.

I have followed your development from start so i cant wait for updates to the multiplayer mission i really would love the option to remove fog.

Thank you for your hard work for making a missions which are well optimized and the world feels like its a living world where you dont know whats around the corner.

[barbolani 198]

Saok, just a thought: understanding your dissapointment maybe you commited a big mistake. You were Beethoven contesting in Eurovision. You are ( for me and other mission makers ) one of the top mission makers and probably scriptors, but that wasnt a contest for that.

Yes, they probably played for half an hour ( and I think your mission cannot be totally understood in half an hour) had their quick impressions and judged all the work in a mood which is not proper for a mission like this.

Just like Beethoven loosing against Dana International.

Maybe you had put a lot of effort on something you couldnt win from minute zero.

So, please, dont get angry, just work on this as you allways worked, because you think your mission is a must in the Arma environment and you are the only one who can do it.

[kibot 2]

Hi SaOk,

I feel you so much after the contest results. You came to the same realization as me and a few other content creators: we are working and improving BIS products for free. That's the reason I stopped working on my dynamic mission, that was well before the contest. People even told me they bought the game to try my mission. For me the contest has been the occasion to be rewarded for quality content creation, so I took a really good swing at it and decided to make a full semi-linear scripted campaign, with high quality voice acting and a nice scenario/mission flow. Well, it didn't turn out as planned, but we knew how the judging will be done and nothingwas certain so we can't do much about that.

I know you have been working on WLA for a long time, but if it begin to feels like a burden and you find no joy anymore working on it(like me), you won't lose much turning away from ArmA for a bit of time. It's not like you're a BIS employee, you can do whatever you want.

Edited March 29, 2015 by kibot

[chortles 263]

Just like Beethoven loosing against Dana International.

Sadly this reminded me of the time that an opera singer performed at an American Idol audition... though the judges at least explicitly acknowledged her talent in that form.

[Coflash 10]

I love this mod and all, I mean, it's probably the best mod I've ever played. I've been with it since the beginning and it's the longest I've ever played a mod. But this situation is pretty pathetic. Being a sore loser is only going to make you look entitled. It's a fact you need to accept. If you want to pull the pin, then do it, but it'll only prove the point I just made.

You also need to take a few things into account. The first being that your mod (on Altis) opens with a cinematic. The English in this cinematic, as well in all other cut scenes, is very poor. I've offered to help with this, and I've seen others offer too, but nothing ever changed and it always sounded bad. This is the first thing they see when they play your mod, first impressions count.

The second thing is that due to the random nature of your mod, their experience might not be the one you intended for them. I will use an example of some of the bad things that happen to me: If they loaded up the mission, landed, then truck landed in the water or on a roof, that right there is going to leave them on foot without a mode of transport or construction. What if they were also using RHS? Some of the vehicles break when you try to enter them. What if they tried a version where the scripts were out of control or too many AI were spawning? Who knows what they saw.

The final thing is performance. I have two 980s in SLI, my CPU at 4.6GHZ and 16GB of ram, yet after an hour or so my performance is always pretty poor. Constant drops into the 20s. This isn't good. I know their engine isn't taking advantage of the hardware, but a heavily scripted mod definitely doesn't help either.

If you took the result in your stride and lost gracefully, you'd maintain a better image, but it doesn't seem you really care about that, and care more for the prize. Well, you didn't win, so do whatever you need to. Quitting certainly won't help, and if you do, we'll all find another mod anyway. Acting like this won't get you anything but a bad reputation. I will be very surprised if the judges even pay attention to this.

You chose to make mods for free, they didn't ask you to. You chose to enter the competition, nothing was guaranteed. We know how much you worked on it. We know the hours were insane. Though we believe you should have won, it matters not, other people worked hard too. That's all there is to it.

I had lots of respect for you until you decided to take this stance, and I'm certainly not going to help pester the judges for another outcome. Here are some more thoughts, for what it's worth:

http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102173

haha, it is his own decicison and not a childish post like yours

For suggesting that quitting because he didn't win is a childish thing to do?

Wow. I mean, if his comment is not the perfect definition of what it means to be childish, I don't know what would be.

We all wanted him to win, but having this sort of attitude isn't going to help anyone or anything.

[SaOk 112]

Thanks you all, :) yes definitely frustrated there is so little respond coming back from BIS in that certain up level. Finally there is a nice event, you give everything and only get slapped in face. I should have skipped the competition, it wasnt for me. Earlier in arma2 there also was also community pack group and it failed with the same silent way even had missions ready (also happened in iron front by zero community support by deep silver).

I realized my meltdown is useless only hurting community and myself. I am done with my "I am done"-state, it lasted some good 15 hours and seems like got the angry out. I am back in business on WLA as hobby having maybe some time off if the MANW starts to haunt me again. BIS can still do as they see right if they care. At the end I love editing the WLA SP, still have to agree the MP have been quite burden so far but I prepare update for it time to time.

Edit: Seems like too late. I am sad some people see me in that way. There is no compassion.

Edited March 30, 2015 by SaOk

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Many of us chose to avoid the MANW thing, and while I see there was a big hole in the MP mode category which I believe could have capitalized on, in the end I am quite happy at deciding to avoid the contest.

If I was to criticize WLA, it would be:

1. Lacks some polish. Grammar is basic example. SaOk could have easily accepted some help/assistance from another, in order to present a more polished scenario. I leave open to speculation of why something so simple and important was left unattended for a year.

2. Anomalies and instabilities associated with dynamic-everything. Great for replayability but not so much for first impressions. Those of us who have hundreds or thousands of hours under our belt, are distanced from the experience that people who have 0-50 hours are having. No-brainers for us are sticking points/frustration for them. WLA is a scenario with relatively high learning curve, in a game with a relatively high learning curve. That IMO was not attended to. You can see in the MANW results, the scenarios which placed well are the ones with low learning curve.

3. (A personal one) Overwhelming. When I first sat down with a cup of coffee to try out WLA, I felt confronted by choices and options. Two analogies come to mind. Walking into a restaurant and them putting a menu in front of me with 1,000 choices, and telling me I'd better order quick or else ... Second analogy, it felt a bit peacock'ish, in a "look at all these choices" kind of way.

Now, after an hour or two of no momentum and no smooth gameplay due to interruptions by "choice peacock'ing" by the scenario, I got into it and adjusted myself to WLAs pacing, and had a great time.

But I did make those notes of issues I had upon first impression. I am not OCD but I did notice the spelling errors and grammar and remember them somewhat even now. I also know how logistically easy it would be for someone to say to the community "Hey, can someone(s) assist me polishing the grammar?". The job would have been done in a day.

Just being frank and honest with my opinion, YMMV.

RE the people who have commented on your outburst, you can disregard them. I would find it more worrying if you displayed no reaction. Your reaction shows you care, and anybody labeling your reaction as childish, just ask them what they have done for the community and how much time committed.

* I too have spent thousands of hours coding for A3, so there is some understanding of the sheer scale of work you have done on the project, the insane amount of time testing and bug-fixing, optimizing, restructuring, and also the reluctance to accept help from others on the project.

Best of luck SaOk.

Edited March 30, 2015 by MDCCLXXVI

[Coflash 10]

Seems like too late. I am sad some people see me in that way. There is no compassion.

There's compassion in my previous post, there was even compassion before you said you'd quit, I don't know what gives you idea that there wasn't. But compassion doesn't extend to agreeing that the judges should give you a more favorable outcome or else you'd quit making this mod.

I just missed out on a job I'd been training a year for as only 20 people out of 6,000 got in. It sucks, and affects my day to day life. But I just have to deal with it.

I can't do anymore than agree that you should have won and offer to donate to your mod.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

RE the people who have commented on your outburst, you can disregard them. I would find it more worrying if you displayed no reaction. Your reaction shows you care, and anybody labeling your reaction as childish, just ask them what they have done for the community and how much time committed.

How many other mod authors that lost acted this way?

What correlation is there between being childish and how many mods someone has made?

What correlation is there between hours and effort to the reward you should receive in a competition? If I spent 10 years making a mod where your clothes turned blue, should I have won?

Childish indeed. Not only your attitude, but the way you think.

I'll stop posting now, I don't feel like I'm dealing with adults.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

How many other mod authors that lost acted this way?

What correlation is there between being childish and how many mods someone has made?

What correlation is there between hours and effort to the reward you should receive in a competition? If I spent 10 years making a mod where your clothes turned blue, should I have won?

Childish indeed. Not only your attitude, but the way you think.

I'll stop posting now, I don't feel like I'm dealing with adults.

You seem irate, I would suggest remaining calm please.

Also, WLA is a scenario/gamemode, not a mod.

[Coflash 10]

That's your response to the logic put forth? Acting as if I am irate because I disagree with you?

The competition wasn't just for scenarios, and I didn't call WLA a mod in that instance (even though I'd still suggest it is one), I specifically asked how many other mod authors, be it for mods, scenarios, sounds (and every other category that had winners or losers) acted this way. A question that wasn't answered, by the way. Are you really 'worried' about all of those people who put the hours in and gracefully lost? There's a difference between losing and being able to accept it while expressing disappointment, and losing and then throwing your toys out of the crib. By all definitions that is being childish.

I wanted to stop posting, so please stop directing posts toward me.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Coflash

[SaOk 112]

Well obviously I failed handle the result right, I want to apologize for that. The dissapointment feeling just got worse every day, have slept very badly. I tried first to keep my feelings hidden, but couldnt think straight at the end. My mind started being very delirious, if it continues that way will head to doctor. I am not seeking any donations (I put link up few times, but it really feel right). There is a a difference between the competition and hobby. Hobby is defintely volunteer, competition was very serious thing for me in very obsessive way.

I dont know what keep it civil means for people, but definitely didnt say people to start bullying judges or BIS (I stated ealier already many times I have nothing personal against anyone, just the way they did their part). If someone is about to post rude things to jury, stop it. Just hoped some small visibility to note the result wasnt looking properly made.

I have been walked over all my life. Its strange to start get called mr.ego if defending my own project in competition and believing in it. I went too far with certain things I said, but standing behind the sane thoughts. I think its funny there is some people clearly thinking only themselves, as soon you threat to take a borrowed toy away they turn against opposite in second. Its like all praising comments have been just there to milk the cow. Once there is no more milk, the cow is left and forgotten.

I will no longer post rant of loosing, but can still answer to thoughts. Else returning to hobby.

Edited March 30, 2015 by SaOk

[ppavia 10]

:cool: i say it again...i know what u are living. After my rage about the il2 Sturmovik contest, i made another big movie with this rage energie (people how dont create things cant understand)

if you have 10 minutes to relax, have a coffe and watch

hehe and to stay in subject... IS there a way to transport box with a chopper ? (i dont have a DLC)

[SaOk 112]

Thanks, played earlier much il2 Sturmovik too. Having the latest one too but havent found time to play it good yet. Will check the vid for sure. :)

You can sling-load any vehicles and crate by getting in chopper and pressing the load crates key shift+9.

Edit: Superb cinema stuff, :) Silent Hunter 3 was in much use too. Too bad the 4th part didnt be as good. I hope someone picks up that genre to do proper simulation again. Also still keeping the ability to walk in the sub. That had big addition for the atmosphere.

Edited March 30, 2015 by SaOk

[ppavia 10]

Thanks you Saok, il2 same for me ...not enought time, but with the track ir AND the buttkicker, its was GREEEAAT TO FLIGHT :p

tks for the trick... but my plan was to carry a stock of waterbarrel and play the deliver team. but anyway i do it with truck convoy

too much rain to work today so i have time to test :bounce3:

/there is still this NO MORE AMMO probleme...

/ im dead only 1 time in 4 hours (too good), when i respawn i was with the good weapon this time but differents glasses. AND wolf team appear in high command (not sure if normal)

this mission still deserve to be perfect hehe

EDIT: water in truck truck on chopper... must be ok

Edited March 30, 2015 by ppavia

[DatSync 16]

I dont know what keep it civil means for people, but definitely didnt say people to start bullying judges or BIS (I stated ealier already many times I have nothing personal against anyone, just the way they did their part). If someone is about to post rude things to jury, stop it. Just hoped some small visibility to note the result wasnt looking properly made.

Sorry that me who posted on MANW I was just mad.

Tested your mp mission yesterday with two friend on Smd sarahni and its running super smooth just wanted to give some fast feedback.

- spawn is little weird but that from the map I think

- When choosing RHS in mod parameters we spawn with default equipement (no mods)

- Csat camp have two light or heavy vehicle and one of it is bugged (empty) when you enter in you completly frozen you have to respawn

- There was some ifrit spawned as wheeled for russian (rhs) I don't know why I looked at carriers redfor etc and there was no ifrit

I think that's all for the mp bug we didn't encountered lot of bug it was running well on every computer about 35-50 fps+

I may have a suggestion for mp update if you do in future

-you could add boat insertion like in solo when you can click on map to choose where to move after your first insertion you can choose to halo jump to your teammates (its already like that after your first spawn)

-fatigue is not in parameters with only 20kg of materials I hardly can sprint (could be cool to deactivates it)

thank you,

[SaOk 112]

The COOP spawning on custom maps is not working right. Also couldnt yet get the mod weapons added for players at mission start for some strange reason. Taking a look of those and other COOP issues/requests during next month to have proper update later April or very early May.

New SP WLA: Amalgamation update. Added The Eridanus Insurrection mod template support + new mission title.

[orcinus 121]

@Sa0k: delighted to hear you aren't leaving:yay:

Your missions are always creative and challenging, and great fun to play. I wish I had a tenth of your scripting skills!

And I agree that you should have won a prize. I hope that if BIS run another contest, they will give the community the major role in deciding the winners, rather than people who maybe only play ArmA occasionally (if at all).

[DatSync 16]

The COOP spawning on custom maps is not working right. Also couldnt yet get the mod weapons added for players at mission start for some strange reason. Taking a look of those and other COOP issues/requests during next month to have proper update later April or very early May.

New SP WLA: Amalgamation update. Added The Eridanus Insurrection mod template support + new mission title.

Thank you master

[Clayman 20]

I said I'm done with BIS the day when MANW was announced. And now I'm back just to comment on this...

Have quit playing Arma3 long time ago, before going final, and didn't pay attention to the competition at all. Therefore I can't really say anything about the entries, finalists, winners... BUT: I do remember how impressed I was when playing Zub. The mission had its glitches but you kept improving it. I'm sure you continued to do so and Whole Lotta Altis is the evolution of your mission concept as good as it could be up to this day. Without a doubt you put a lot of work into this. Seeing all the praise in this thread, I do believe you actually did deserve to win.

From the beginning I said it's a stupid idea to bring money on the table. It will cause more problems than it's any good for. Even if I hadn't quit playing Arma, I wouldn't have participated in MANW, just because of the insane amount of money involved. Playing / moding / editing Arma has always been a hobby for me, not a business.

I do indeed like the idea of a competition, the OFPEC MEC '11 was great and it was an honor to compete against you. OK, I was a bit pissed off that you won - for like a day or two. ;) But hey, I won a T-Shirt. And you're the better mission maker after all, no doubt about that. The 'real' reward however was the feedback I received for my mission. Seeing that people enjoy my countless hours of work. You right here have like 3.5k replies full of praise for your mission, I could only dream of. You have 2.5x the votes by community than any other entry. Obviously you're the winner of hearts. Who cares for that f?!*ed up competition anyway? It's only money after all!

I haven't touched any Arma for about 1.5 years now. Just recently I started toying around with CWR2 mod, just for the fun of it. I still enjoy messing around in the editor. Maybe one day I'll return and throw out a mission or two for the public, or maybe not. I don't know today. When I'm in the right mood, it's great fun to do some editing. But if not, well... you have an impressive amount of spare time for other hobbies when not playing Arma. :D

It's your mission. It's your game. It's your hobby. You decide how much time you put into something, how much pressure you put on yourself. You don't owe anything to anyone.

Just keep that in mind and have a good time. :)

Kind regards!

Clayman out.

[SaOk 112]

Thanks - nice to see you for a long time :), feels like it was yesterday when that OFPEC MEC '11 was held. Still remember wandering through the early mission foggy forest, did you also have the boar hunting sidetask? Remember wandering in forest to hunt the last boar and getting badly lost which was fun in own way. Anyway was a superb mission. Chernarus and the whole arma2 setting was perfect to great dense atmosphere. Altis also have good sides, but its impossible to make it look the same way when the civilians look like turists on paradise island. Missing badly grannies and other local characters - there could homeless beggars, priest, shepherd and local way dressed greek people. Soundtrack could also have some greek music.

If not being so connected to editor, would also play still arma2 time to time. CWR2 mod is amazing, I have still the orginal cold war campaign to play through fully. Hope to see you back with some new missions. ;) In last half year or year there have been much old community members leaving or becoming very idle.

[jcae2798 132]

Hey SAOK, hope all is well.

With the MOD map additions, do you plan to support any additional ADDON UNITS? I see you added RHS which is great, but what about CAF or Leights OPFOR packs? With the new AFGAN map soon to be released, would love to see how it works out. Not sure if the MAP would be too small however? Either way would be nice to see an additional UNIT addon for middle east style maps like Takistan and etc...