Israel - Gaza - What should we do if anything.

[nettrucker 142]

Nettrucker: I was refering to the embargos placed against Iraq in the '90s, as opposed to the blockades imposed on the Palestinians by Israel which in my mind are something completely different than those imposed against Iraq.

Froggy: Have I ever written that you can do that? Nope. The point you're making about America contains one key ingredience that Iraq was lacking previous to the invasion; it wasn't the Iraqis who chosed their leader, or how they lead their lives. The Surge doesn't refer to IEDs, you'd known that if you took some time to read about Iraq.

Other than that, I agree with you.

There's no right in an embargo it is simply and plain wrong. It is not hitting the rich and powerful people (Dictators call it whatever you like) who run those countries. The ordinary civilians are suffering the most . . . especially infants and kids. It's about crippling their economies to achieve regime change which is more favorable to special interests. It has always been about that. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are wars of aggression period. Young soldiers are dying in those wars serving special interest. WTF So starving Iraqis was the right thing to do meanwhile Palestinians not. I really don't understand people like you. No offense intended

[froggyluv 2136]

Palestine upgraded from Permanent Observer to Non-Member Observer State at the U.N

[scrim 1]

There's no right in an embargo it is simply and plain wrong. It is not hitting the rich and powerful people (Dictators call it whatever you like) who run those countries. The ordinary civilians are suffering the most . . . especially infants and kids. It's about crippling their economies to achieve regime change which is more favorable to special interests. It has always been about that. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are wars of aggression period. Young soldiers are dying in those wars serving special interest. WTF So starving Iraqis was the right thing to do meanwhile Palestinians not. I really don't understand people like you. No offense intended

That depends entirely on how the local dictator choses to handle the situation. If he decides that his new golf course is more important than his people not starving, then it's his fault.

How can Afghanistan be a war for special interests? There's practically speaking nothing there, and when ISAF/NATO pulls out on '14 the country will be to turbulent to allow any affairs to take place.

[hellfire257 3]

Palestine upgraded from Permanent Observer to Non-Member Observer State at the U.N

About bloody time! This is excellent news.

[Macadam Cow 1]

Yup, I'm thoroughly ashamed by my country abstention. What a lack of courage...

[froggyluv 2136]

Yup, I'm thoroughly ashamed by my country standing point : abstention. What a lack of courage...

Mine as well. The only coverage on CNN has been one of defeat and angry Israeli ambassadors promising massive financial punitive damages to Palestine. Haven't heard one jubulant Palestinian speak yet.

[Macadam Cow 1]

Well, don't take it as a personal attack, but the US voted against it and over the last decade the american medias sometime had some trouble not to blindly follow the government standpoint.

I, for one, have nothing to say against my country medias. They did a pretty good job covering that crisis, showing both side of the coin and giving both side a chance to talk.

[froggyluv 2136]

Well, don't take it as a personal attack, but the US voted against it and over the last decade the american medias sometime had some trouble not to blindly follow the government standpoint.

I, for one, have nothing to say against my country medias. They did a pretty good job covering that crisis, showing both side of the coin and giving both side a chance to talk.

I never take criticisms of my country's government personally whether they are warranted or not. In this case, they are most definitely warranted and Im almost enjoying them eating crow and wish I could witness the jublation goings on in Gaza and the West Bank firsthand. Im happy for them :)

[nettrucker 142]

That depends entirely on how the local dictator choses to handle the situation. If he decides that his new golf course is more important than his people not starving, then it's his fault.

How can Afghanistan be a war for special interests? There's practically speaking nothing there, and when ISAF/NATO pulls out on '14 the country will be to turbulent to allow any affairs to take place.

We have to free the middle East countries from dictators by starving the population which needs to be liberated form dictatorship. You should really do some more historical research about the middle East.

How can Afghanistan be a war for special interests? There's practically speaking nothing there, and when ISAF/NATO pulls out on '14 the country will be to turbulent to allow any affairs to take place.

You are aware that 90% of the opium comes out of Afghanistan? Have you any idea what a massive and huge business this is . . . especially for the big Pharma corporations. Not to mention the heroin which is made out of opium and then sold worldwide. Do some research on it. You know that most of the drug money is laundered by wall street banks? Well in case you don't then I would suggest you do some research on that subject as well.

My apologize for swaying off topic.

[scrim 1]

I considered actually coming up with a counter argument to that Nettrucker, but then I read the other half of your post. That is, the one filled to the brim with conspiracy theories, and I just can't be bothered.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The next thing Palestine needs is border control and visas.

Kind Regards walker

[ProfTournesol 956]

At least it shows that the democratic way is efficient. The military one just failed and only reinforced Hamas power on Gaza.

[spooky lynx 73]

Hi all

The next thing Palestine needs is border control and visas.

Kind Regards walker

No wai for visas with Russia! I want to travel to my aunt easily without any border control mess:)

[walker 0]

No wai for visas with Russia! I want to travel to my aunt easily without any border control mess:)

Hi all

In reply to Spooky Lynx, the visa restrictions that Palestine wants to apply are for Palestine to decide. I dare say nations that are considered friendly will have easier restrictions, probably none, on entry to Palestine than those that are considered as comming from less friendly states. I would suppose the Vatican will be establishing diplomatic missions in Palestine as will most of the counties that voted for statehood and many who abstained. The Palestinian President should invite them to do so.

Palestine itself should establish diplomatic missions in different countries. I dare say money as aid from friendly nations will be made available to Palestine to allow it to do so. And now of course Palestinian representatives have diplomatic protection.

Kind Regards walker

[seba1976 98]

That depends entirely on how the local dictator choses to handle the situation. If he decides that his new golf course is more important than his people not starving, then it's his fault.

That's the concept that, IMHO, you have wrong, it's what the media uses to justify the crime. Embargos will always create a great deal of suffering for people you don't even know, whether it works for your goverment or not is not the point. And the worst part is the you're inflicting that pain to coerce other nations to do something that will be convenient to your's. It's plain blackmail, with destruction of lives and infrastructure.

Like I said, if your problem is with the dictator, grow a pair and remove him yourself, but don't let him do more harm to innocent people by asphyxiating it's economy.

[walker 0]

Hi all

An interesting article in Foreign Policy Journal on the recent conflict:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/11/30/another-gaza-war/

Kind Regards walker

[scrim 1]

That's the concept that, IMHO, you have wrong, it's what the media uses to justify the crime. Embargos will always create a great deal of suffering for people you don't even know, whether it works for your goverment or not is not the point. And the worst part is the you're inflicting that pain to coerce other nations to do something that will be convenient to your's. It's plain blackmail, with destruction of lives and infrastructure.

Like I said, if your problem is with the dictator, grow a pair and remove him yourself, but don't let him do more harm to innocent people by asphyxiating it's economy.

That's very incoherent Seba, as you wrote "Embargos first and then invasion is even worst, it's even more devastating for the people" two pages back, and now you're saying that it's better to invade than it is to impose embargos. And it isn't just "to coerce other nations to do something convient to your's", it's something you do when a dictator has exceeded the amount of attrocities normally comitted by dictators a few times over and have turned into a destabilising factor for pretty much the entire region.

[nettrucker 142]

I considered actually coming up with a counter argument to that Nettrucker, but then I read the other half of your post. That is, the one filled to the brim with conspiracy theories, and I just can't be bothered.

Good go back to sleep. Good night!!!

[slatts 1978]

Walker...Me thinks Spooky Lynx was being a tad sarcastic (at least not serious) about the visas ;)

[scrim 1]

Nettrucker: How very constructive of you. Let me reply in kind: Put your aliminium hat on and find a chin strap for it. Remember to cut off your electricity, that's how the establishment spies on your thoughts and brain wash you.

[oxmox 73]

Just one day after the UN votes and the upgraded status, Israel declares to push their settlements and build 3000 new ones in the Westbank and Jerusalem.

Iam really curios what this new upgraded UN status means in practice, probably just talks and violence like in the decades before...

Edited November 30, 2012 by oxmox

[hellfire257 3]

No conspiracy theories here please, this is supposed to be an intelligent discussion about Gaza/Israel.

It is a pity to see Israel acting like this, although it was to be expected. They really do have a nerve.

I was reading some pro-Zionist comments on Twitter last night after the result came through, and it is alarming just how...I don't know how to describe it...brainwashed these people are? I mean, just because you supposedly have a "4000 year tie" to the land, doesn't mean it is right to go there, boot the current population out, oppress those that remain and then cry foul when they get attacked in return. I just don't understand it - I physically cannot comprehend how they think it is right. Overall, I guess it is a moral issue for me and a religious one for them. People say morals and religion go hand in hand, but this is one example that proves the opposite.

[slatts 1978]

Sounds just like the Plantations.

[seba1976 98]

I was reading some pro-Zionist comments on Twitter last night after the result came through, and it is alarming just how...I don't know how to describe it...brainwashed these people are? I mean, just because you supposedly have a "4000 year tie" to the land, doesn't mean it is right to go there, boot the current population out, oppress those that remain and then cry foul when they get attacked in return. I just don't understand it - I physically cannot comprehend how they think it is right. Overall, I guess it is a moral issue for me and a religious one for them. People say morals and religion go hand in hand, but this is one example that proves the opposite.

I hear you. At the top level though, it's not religion nor moral, it's resources and hatred.

[mrcash2009 0]

Zionism and its links back to Rome are crucial to the current events, its well worth delving further into that subject. Very much a core speaking for all of its people when there are Jews that are completely against it. The ADL are also something worthy delving into with its affiliations & motives.

The usual with us against us, "anti" rhetoric thrown around to smoke screen quite a bit within all this.

The main thing is to follow the backing and funding more than anything to get a better idea. I agree with Hellfire its truly a :butbut: moment with allot of this. People shy away from religion, but its kind of something you have to look at to get the angles.