jchika85 1 Posted March 21, 2013 I guess price for game in CIS countries will be less than official price... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 21, 2013 There i am reading a thread were someone is askin, "Will A3 replace A2?" And alot of coments says "No more modding" No more addons??? This is for me, a verry disturbing indication... Someone said "Read terms and rules for steam".. I havent done that, i admit. So whats the problem? I think if ArmA3 loses some of the "distinguished" modders, im not shure ill put effort in getting it... PS(Mods and Addons is like 65% of the game, for me atleast) Now i dont know if this is some consipracyfeeling, but theres ALLWAYS room for thoughts and debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sryan 1 Posted March 21, 2013 as far as I know Steam doesn't inhibit the ability to use mods. I have arma 2 on steam and never had a problem with it. What you probably are thinking about is steamworks. a tool developed by VALVe to use mods ingame, but uploading your mod to steamworks forfeits some of your rights to VALVe, wich some modders here simply do no want. The solution will be that you can find your mods on armaholic and not on steam itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah 2 Posted March 21, 2013 I think things got blown out of context, but over some very important issues. Without delving into it all again here, I don't think there should be any genuine concern about the modding scene if steamworks were to be, or not to be used - Modders just wanted to bring to light that steamworks requires you to release your IP to Valve when you upload addons to steamworks, which any right minded modder is never going to agree with. There is also an issue about what happens if someone (maliciously or with good intentions) were to upload an addon to steamworks which wasn't theirs to do so, and where the modder did not wish that addon to be on steamworks because of the IP issue. Either there will be some future clarification, changes, or modders who wish to retain their IP will simply use sites such as Armaholic to upload addons to in the first case. In the second, we're rather reliant on Valve being prepared to follow up copyright/IP claims, or BI vetting steamworks uploads, neither of which I see being likely purely at a workload/access level. Anyway, nothing really to worry about at a consumer level, it's mostly a modder concern right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 23, 2013 Lots of buz... I just need one thing clayfied: Will be able to get ArmA3 OUTSIDE steam...??? Will i be able to PLAY ArmA3 WITHOUT steam?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted March 23, 2013 ;2352424']Lots of buz...I just need one thing clayfied: Will be able to get ArmA3 OUTSIDE steam...??? Will i be able to PLAY ArmA3 WITHOUT steam?? It was clarified a long time ago, Arma3 will require Steam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Then i guess you lost another costumer. This post is no longer valid..... Edited March 24, 2013 by Andersson[SWEC] Changed my mind....LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrcash2009 0 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) ;2352500']Then i guess you lost another costumer. ANe5AeOIFm4 :) Option 1: Grab stream' date=' buy through valve and get the game, stay online and use Steamworks if available. [u']Option 2:[/u] Purchase external digital/BI Store, grab steam, put in key, grab game, patch it, go offline mode & use all 3rd party links as normal to get mods, only go online if patches are noted and only once seen feedback, play PM via server browser other than Steam IE (if still a available) Gamespy. Option 3: Purchase external digital/BI Store, grab steam, put in key, grab game, patch it, go offline mode permanent & use all 3rd party links as normal to get mods, only go online if patches are noted and only once seen feedback. Or the above ... BOOOOOM! I am not doing a thing until post full release anyway and after that if it justifies itself enough I would go with option 2. Edited March 23, 2013 by mrcash2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) But, but, if i go OFFLINE i cant play with you?!?!? Is there any "official" storys to why STEAM has to be used? I just "tried" to read the STEAM user agreement, and im lost.. I really dont understand how a file on my computer can be a NON physical item. Its created, its there, i can interact with it, i can move it, i can REmove it, just like a car. I also read some discussion some were else that STEAM is currently testing som "STEAM MARKET" thing. For used games..Awsome. Mhee, im confused... PS. i just had a thought... I have some xx nr of DVD games on my shelf... I bought them.. IF one of them breaks, i have to buy a new one... BUT! If my digital copy breaks, do i have to buy a NEW "copy"? Or do i just download some file and install it again...?? I mean my pc could get sick and in need of some medical care, or maybe even some amputation..It might need a new hardrive. Edited March 23, 2013 by Andersson[SWEC] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 23, 2013 ;2352589']Is there any "official" storys to why STEAM has tobe used? Yes : http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/356-arma3-steam-dev-blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 23, 2013 Ok i´ve read the blog.. Now i wonder why this would be bad for a HUGE part of the playerbase..The ones using mods/addons.. Someone said something about rights removed or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kireta21 13 Posted March 23, 2013 It's about Steam Workshop, modding service for Steam games. Like in any service like that you can use it to download, install and upload mods using native manager integrated with Steam. Service is as simple as it gets (click "subscribe", wait, play), which is also why people with at least half of brain still functional, don't use it. Main concern about Steamworks is lack of controll over mod. For example mods are updated automatically, so if mod author messes up when updating - tough luck. But what is far more important, authors themself have no controll over mods they have uploaded. If you did read EULA (99% Steam users didn't) it says anything you upload to Steam becomes Valve's property. It was made to make Valve immune to lawsuits when user uploads IP that didn't exactly belonged to him. But that's also means if Valve ever decides to "borrow" someone's mod to use it in their products - they can. How will that all affect ArmA3? Not at all. Quanity of shit tier mods will be uploaded to Steam Workshop, that's forsure, some people green enough on modding ArmA3 may even use it, but since modding game "the old way" will still work, why bother? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 23, 2013 modding game "the old way" will still work, why bother? What do you mean with this? Like bussiness as usual or? A modder can make the game 110% better and we just do as we allways have...Download, put @ infront and edit startline? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chortles 263 Posted March 23, 2013 That's exactly what's already going on; the "IP rights" concern is over the distribution of said mods, since right now (and if Arma 3 never gets Steam Workshop connectivity -- which is not a prerequisite of Steamworks, look at how few games actually use Steam Workshop) the distribution is still the same, hosting on community-accepted hosting sites or personal hosting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fuse 1 Posted March 23, 2013 It's about Steam Workshop, modding service for Steam games. Like in any service like that you can use it to download, install and upload mods using native manager integrated with Steam. Service is as simple as it gets (click "subscribe", wait, play), which is also why people with at least half of brain still functional, don't use it.Main concern about Steamworks is lack of controll over mod. For example mods are updated automatically, so if mod author messes up when updating - tough luck. But what is far more important, authors themself have no controll over mods they have uploaded. If you did read EULA (99% Steam users didn't) it says anything you upload to Steam becomes Valve's property. It was made to make Valve immune to lawsuits when user uploads IP that didn't exactly belonged to him. But that's also means if Valve ever decides to "borrow" someone's mod to use it in their products - they can. How will that all affect ArmA3? Not at all. Quanity of shit tier mods will be uploaded to Steam Workshop, that's forsure, some people green enough on modding ArmA3 may even use it, but since modding game "the old way" will still work, why bother? Nailed it. Look at Skyrim. New players use Steam Workshop and it is flooded with garbage. Elder Scrolls vets use Nexus. I can understand why their terms make the more serious modders nervous (the EULA makes me nervous as a casual user), but I doubt the nightmare of Valve using work that was uploaded without permission is going to come true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 24, 2013 Yes yes, all nice and dandy... IS it bussines as usual... Will modder be able to do their gloryous work at home, perfecting a game by 10folds.. And let the community download were modder wants them. Put the files in directory, slab an @ in front and enjoy.. Or what? hosting on community-accepted hosting sites or personal hosting. If this is the case, WHY all the fuzz about steam... If BI can get more copies sold and make more money.. And we can enjoy the game LIKE ALLWAYS.. Its a win win... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chortles 263 Posted March 24, 2013 ;2353353']Yes yes' date=' all nice and dandy...IS it bussines as usual... Will modder be able to do their gloryous work at home, perfecting a game by 10folds.. And let the community download were modder wants them. Put the files in directory, slab an @ in front and enjoy.. Or what?[/quote']Right now this is what is already going on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 24, 2013 Allrightythen... Move along and stop bitching about steam... There seam to be NO problem...Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chortles 263 Posted March 24, 2013 Re: "the modding concern" -- it all comes down to whether or not Steam Workshop support is implemented or not, since: #1: the existing methods of mod distribution and "installation" (modfolder + adding to command line, or in this case to the alpha's Steam launch options) are working as they previously did, and #2: Steam Workshop requires Steamworks, but Steamworks does not force Steam Workshop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted March 24, 2013 And, why would BI want to do that... Dont you think they realize, that would cripple the playerbase... A game is only fun as long as it gives something..Mods do that... If they chose the WS approach, they WILL loose money... I think they are smart enough to realize that... Another thought: Cant they have Both? Workshop AND 3d Party... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chortles 263 Posted March 24, 2013 The risk is more from prominent modders choosing to cut back or halt modding rather than risk their mods ending up on Steam Workshop without their permission and with Valve having rights to whatever got uploaded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nettrucker 142 Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) ;2353429']And' date=' why would BI want to do that...Dont you think they realize, that would cripple the playerbase... A game is only fun as long as it gives something..Mods do that... If they chose the WS approach, they WILL loose money... I think they are smart enough to realize that... Another thought: Cant they have Both? Workshop AND 3d Party...[/quote'] If you've read the devblog you should know by now what their reasons are to go Steam exclusive. Dont you think they realize, that would cripple the playerbase... This argument is pretty much irrelevant. Steam most probably will ensure an increase in the player base so the ones who don't accept Steam have the alternative to choose not to buy and play Arma 3. That's the only alternative we have. Or you accept Steam and play the game or you don't. It's as easy as that. In any case the loss of long standing customers who don't accept Steam is irrelevant. A game is only fun as long as it gives something..Mods do that... Mods have assured that the BI franchise survived for all these years. Now I've read the Valve EULA and also the Steam workshop terms and so on. If I would be a modder I wouldn't agree to these terms even if you would stick a gun in my mouth. Until now nothing bad has happened but the first violation will raise a shit storm for sure. As a fact the CWR team already decided to stop developing. Arma 2 CWR will be the last one and as far as I understood they are also against it to import it to Arma 3 as it is . . . might be wrong though maybe I miss understood as well. If they chose the WS approach, they WILL loose money... I think they are smart enough to realize that... I don't think they will. IMO they will increase sales. Now let me explain why. video games are the new drug of the century. A real fan will accept anything to play his beloved game. Valve knows that perfectly well. They cut a deal with BIS to go Steam exclusive only. BI gets what it wants or needs Valve knows that they will have an increase in their customer base. Most Arma fans will accept nearly everything just to play their game so they will open an account on Steam and profit is raked in for everyone. Another thought: Cant they have Both? No . . . A decision has been made we have to deal with it. :( Sorry have to clarify that the decision has been made to go steam exclusive only. I've miss read the statement above. Edited March 24, 2013 by nettrucker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dm 9 Posted March 24, 2013 As a fact the CWR team already decided to stop developing. Arma 2 CWR will be the last one and as far as I understood they are also against it to import it to Arma 3 as it is I thought this was based more on w0lle's complete dislike of steam, and not necessarily aimed at the steam workshop (which still hasn't been confirmed in or out) They cut a deal with BIS to go Steam exclusive only. Its interesting to see how many people are assuming there was some deal made between Valve/BI for A3's exclusivity. As I understood it, BI chose to go steam exclusive in order to reduce their mastering workload. (Now they only have to master the steam build, rather than the steam, sproket, morphicon, 505, and all the other builds that they were doing previously for A2 - note that, from what I'm told, the morphicon disk copy will be a steam key and a data snapshot from steam whenever they decide to master their disks, you'll then have to connect to steam and download any updates) No . . . A decision has been made we have to deal with it. :( No, no decision on workshop has been made yet (unless I missed some announcement). We still don't know whether or not A3 will be workshop enabled. IF it is workshop enabled, there is nothing stopping sites like armaholic continuing to host addons too. What you will see is some addon makers stopping public releases because they are unwilling to take the risk that some punkass kid re-uploads their work to the steam workshop, which then introduces the problems with valve's workshop EULA and IP rights transferal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 24, 2013 Its interesting to see how many people are assuming there was some deal made between Valve/BI for A3's exclusivity. The contrary would surprise me though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
