Steam discussion

[gammadust 12]

EU laws mean nothing to a company headquartered in Seattle, Washington.

(as was before edit)

For a company headquartered in Seattle, WA, EU laws mean so much so that:

SECTION 12 CONTAINS A BINDING ARBITRATION AGREEMENT AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER. IT AFFECTS YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS. PLEASE READ IT. IF YOU LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES, SOME OR ALL OF SECTION 12 MIGHT NOT APPLY TO YOU. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LIVE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, SECTION 12 DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU

(sry caps, but quoted as is)

and of particular note:

For EU Subscribers:

You agree that this Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and that it is subject to the laws of Luxembourg, excluding the law of conflicts and the Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods (CISG). However, where the laws of Luxembourg provide a lower degree of consumer protection than the laws of your country of residence, the consumer protection laws of your country shall prevail. In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys’ fees and expenses.

(source)

This may relieve, to an extent, EU costumers but what about any other?

Edited March 1, 2013 by gammadust
source

[Tonci87 163]

Now I have a problem with steam.

I downloaded a Shogun 2 Mod from the steam workshop, where the hell does steam save those mod files? I need to look into one of them but can´t find it...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Now I have a problem with steam.

I downloaded a Shogun 2 Mod from the steam workshop, where the hell does steam save those mod files? I need to look into one of them but can´t find it...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Where+does+steam+save+Workshop+files

Thank me later. :cc:

[Alexei Guba 10]

Somehow I doubt that you played OFP 10 years ago...

I couldn't care less about what you believe or not believe. Go troll somewhere else. :rolleyes:

[Tonci87 163]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Where+does+steam+save+Workshop+files

Thank me later. :cc:

Well thanks but it didn't really help. It seems that it depends on the game and mod where it gets saved. I hope BIS sticks with the current modfolder architecture.

@Alexei, try harder

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I'm afraid the Steam fans just shot themselves in the leg. :)

One more reason, not to use Steam. Or you think that is an argument which convince me to use their service when they clearly don't care about my rights as an EU consumer?

I don't honestly care what your value judgement says your "rights" are, W0lle. If you don't like Steam, then (i) stop using them or (ii) buy from a store in Europe that sales video games? Pretty simple idea I just threw at you, huh?

[W0lle 1052]

I don't know, either you just randomly post something without reading; or you're just trolling.

"buy from a store in Europe that sales video games? Pretty simple idea I just threw at you, huh?"

No it's not a simple idea. Because no matter where I purchase Arma 3 from, I (and everyone else) is forced to use Steam. No matter what. What is so hard to understand here?

But as said before, it's pointless to discuss with people like you who accept every "OK" and "I agree" button they run into if that allows them to play. You people defend Steam as it would be your life, and ignoring all valid reasons the "other side" provides. And now please stop telling people bullcrap like "simply buy somewhere else" when they have no real alternative to your "oh so great Steam". :rolleyes:

[metalcraze 290]

I find it funny how this supposedly "mature" community instantly degrades to name-calling when someone likes/does not like something they do not like/do like...

Dunno bro. I've read that if you like having a choice you are an outdated guy who is forever stuck in the past - so if I'm medieval I'm logically assuming the other camp is kids.

I can only assume from your attitude that you dont like steam and will not be getting Arma 3 metalcraze?

That depends on how DRM-ridden it will be. The less Steamworks-disease in my multiplayer the better.

I don't buy all those BIS excuses. Paradox does it right - their games support all that delta-patching-ease-of-use-bla-bla-bla-marketspeak through Steam and yet I'm still "not guilty until proven otherwise", meaning no annoying DRM.

Edited March 2, 2013 by metalcraze

[TSAndrey 1]

But as said before, it's pointless to discuss with people like you who accept every "OK" and "I agree" button they run into if that allows them to play. You people defend Steam as it would be your life, and ignoring all valid reasons the "other side" provides. And now please stop telling people bullcrap like "simply buy somewhere else" when they have no real alternative to your "oh so great Steam". :rolleyes:

What reasons? Millions of people use Steam, and none of them complain. If it's such a problem to make a Steam account, maybe you really should consider not playing Arma 3. You don't have to be such a crybaby...

[ProfTournesol 956]

Millions of people use Steam, and none of them complain.

None of them ?

[TSAndrey 1]

That depends on how DRM-ridden it will be. The less Steamworks-disease in my multiplayer the better.

I don't buy all those BIS excuses. Paradox does it right - their games support all that delta-patching-ease-of-use-bla-bla-bla-marketspeak through Steam and yet I'm still "not guilty until proven otherwise", meaning no annoying DRM.

Disease? Steamworks will only make the game better. And you have to understand, that BIS didn't use Steam because they wanted to, but because they needed to. If they didn't use Steam, Arma 3 would probably be delayed to 2014!

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

None of them ?

Some of them do. The overhelming majority uses Steam with no problems and enjoys it.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Steamworks will only make the game better.

Sorry since when does Steam/Steamworks "make the game better"? We all don't know how good or bad the release of A3 in Q3 will be.

If they didn't use Steam, Arma 3 would probably be delayed to 2014!

Maybe start asking why BIS was in need to this step! Rushing out the game as alpha via Steam while covering the delay into Q3? What does it really matter to the player + fan if a game get's finally out in 2013 or 2014?

[nettrucker 142]

. . . Maybe start asking why BIS was in need to this step!

IMO, apart from the advantages to BIS under the aspect of a developer platform, I think that they had (been forced) to compromise. Valve is already in a powerful position they dictate rules and they are very well aware about it. They saw the possibility to increase profit by asking the exclusive distribution rights throughout steam.

Now they know also that all the former non steam users would switch to Steam just to be able to play their favorite game because they know exactly how addictive video games really are and that we gamers would accept everything just to play our game.

Valve knows exactly how to exploit the gamers weakness and addictiveness. They are cornering the market. Most of the steam users call it progress to me it's creating a monopoly. I personally think that monopolies are a bad thing to a free economic market system.

Apart from all the reasons already repeated in the steamworks thread and also here . . . why some of us reject steam . . . it amazes me really how many of you steam users would accept everything just to be able to play the game.

I accept the decision BIS took although I don't agree with it nor do I support it. The complete failure of some of you guys to understand our deep concerns about this, is just amazing. We've been bashed for having rejected the steam exclusive for over a hundred pages in the steam works thread.

I will not support Valve nor BIS by buying ArmA 3. I'm not butthurt about it since it has been mentioned a few times.

I don't agree with you steam users I see things really differently. Do I have the right to have my own opinion in regards? Thank you.

[mrcash2009 0]

What reasons? Millions of people use Steam, and none of them complain. If it's such a problem to make a Steam account, maybe you really should consider not playing Arma 3. You don't have to be such a crybaby...

Thats millions of people who accept central control over their purchase, nothing more. Then again unless you can survey those millions and post it here that 100 percent never complained I think what you mixing up is people who value convenience over ownership and rights/choice, compared to those other set of millions who dont, you know, those that are not those millions that use it.

Disease? Steamworks will only make the game better. And you have to understand, that BIS didn't use Steam because they wanted to, but because they needed to. If they didn't use Steam, Arma 3 would probably be delayed to 2014!

Everyone knows why BI decided this as a business decision, the point is its all about steam being shoved under your nose to play (and one big steam advert to buy from them).

People post here with BI as the defence of it, but we are talking about dominance of a market through one distribution source that's getting larger and more controlled to the few per day. BI have in fact now signed a deal to put Steam onto your machine (= people who dont use it have to if they want to play, they then have it and then use it, they then purchase through it ... yet another hooked customer for steam only), and its not BI people have the issue with, its being put under the steam bubble.

The best thing to do is simply purchase A3 third party (mainly through BI direct stores), use steam as you dont have the choice, but never buy any other games through it and certainly never buy games via valve store to fund them. In the end its just to be used as a long winded patch downloader. Using steam for one game that you purchased via 3rd party and not through valve is the trade off other than not bothering at all.

Im personally in no hurry for Arma3 due to my rig, and It will be a long transition from A2 to 3 for me based on a few factors including this, quite happy to play 2 for a long time more and watch dyslexi youtube channel with updates, and see how the dust settles with mods and patching and the whole steam "thing" later, but that's really for the other thread.

Edited March 2, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Bee8190 10]

I am far from excited that we'll have to use steam but if that means we get better MP mod support, less hacking and easier way to manage beta patches and so on, I'm willing to give it a shot. I've been waiting far too long for this one to let it slip trough and while arma 2 was a great pal, I feel like arma 3 is going to be worth it than to just ignore it. Furthermore it's not as bad as BF4 and future microtransaction for just about anything.

There are only two games I have installed on my rig and that's Pcars and arma plus mods and with that said, steam can only wish I'm going to buy anymore games.

[W0lle 1052]

Disease? Steamworks will only make the game better. And you have to understand, that BIS didn't use Steam because they wanted to, but because they needed to. If they didn't use Steam, Arma 3 would probably be delayed to 2014!

Yes that they say. It could also be just a marketing excuse. No one knows that. Neither me nor you. But if BI says so, it must be fact, right?

Some of them do. The overhelming majority uses Steam with no problems and enjoys it.

What now? None complains or some complain. I think you don't even have bothered to look around what problems you eventually can run into with Steam.

"It works fine for me, so there are no problems and no one complains. And if they do, they must be idiots". Typical attitude a lot of people have these days. Now let's hope you don't run into your first Steam problem next week. That would suck, wouldn't it?

Edited March 2, 2013 by W0lle

[memphisbelle 99]

I have really got to see about how much steam will take an influence of my (known so far) ArmA (3) Experiences. I was concerned about the installation since I´ve got a whole partition for BIS. Now I noticed that steam made it possible to select another directory than the place where steam is installed. If the whole steam thing will have no negative effect on modding, (dedicated) Server hosting, mixing up ArmA3 with probably upcoming stand alone Products (just like OA), so I might not have any problems anymore with steam...I´ll see next week,

I mean, I have games installed with Ubisoft and Origin. They can easily deny my access for my games at any time as well, just like steam...so far everythings works well...I´ll really give it a try although I am not happy with the decision of BIS.

If the only concern was that ArmA3 would have been released in 2014/2015 without steam, I wouldnt have a Problem with waiting...only hardcore reason I really accept is, if BIS would run out of money without steam

[mrcash2009 0]

I mean, I have games installed with Ubisoft and Origin. They can easily deny my access for my games at any time as well, just like steam...

Herein lies the underlying point of most who are not the biggest fan of the entire thing when accepting to come under this one size fits all umbrella system. And the big question is, is that a good thing? And the answer is, No .... or what you mostly get is "its just a game" ... until for varying reasons they cant access it.

One day in the future this will be the only way the rate people are switching and having to go that way to play ... and then your nicely boxed into ever changing rules & regulations of a select few, with it set rules (until something needs to change), dictated pricing and button switch offers, centralised personal data, no refunds (or hard to get) ... and the best of all, complete and utter reliance to play a computer game from a corporation, what a lovely thing "its only a game" after all.

I wouldnt have a Problem with waiting...only hardcore reason I really accept is, if BIS would run out of money without steam

Well, that is what has been put to us as the customer in some ways, as always no one will ever know if that didn't have to the the case or fully true. It would be a sad day the BI would not exist because of ignoring Valve ... maybe we are getting there.

Edited March 2, 2013 by mrcash2009

[nikiller 18]

hi,

Sorry to be a noob but I'm not into all the steam business and digital download. It means that there will never be a disk edition?

cya.

Nikiller.

[mrcash2009 0]

Yes and other digital download stores .......... but ......... you install steam to activate and play it via steam no matter how you installed it. IE disc will basicly be data/steam install exe & key to put into steam once its installed etc.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

hi,

Sorry to be a noob but I'm not into all the steam business and digital download. It means that there will never be a disk edition?

There's going to be a retail edition with the DVD containing the game, but you will still have to activate it through Steam.

[TSAndrey 1]

What now? None complains or some complain. I think you don't even have bothered to look around what problems you eventually can run into with Steam.

"It works fine for me, so there are no problems and no one complains. And if they do, they must be idiots". Typical attitude a lot of people have these days. Now let's hope you don't run into your first Steam problem next week. That would suck, wouldn't it?

I've already run into Steam issues. I'm just not making a big fuss out of it. You guys need to stop acting like Steam is spyware that will eat your game.

[metalcraze 290]

Disease? Steamworks will only make the game better.

How exactly?

And you have to understand, that BIS didn't use Steam because they wanted to, but because they needed to. If they didn't use Steam, Arma 3 would probably be delayed to 2014!

Oh stop repeating BIS market speak already. What does Steam-exclusivity add that would force BIS to spend additional 6 months developing the game otherwise?

You don't have to be Steam exclusive to have the game on Steam and use delta-patching. But you have to be Steam exclusive to have silly achievements, steamworkshop that is inferior to Six Updater in every way and glitchy matchmaking which wouldn't work in a game like ArmA.

Unless of course you know something I don't - then please share. Because so far it sounds like "Gabe has made us a good %%$$ offer if we keep it steam exclusive after DayZ success"

I don't buy BIS excuses because they never gave any reasoning behind their move. "Our game will get delayed to 2014" is not a reasoning.

Edited March 2, 2013 by metalcraze

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Oh stop repeating BIS market speak already.

Like events of last year didn't happen? The rest I won't even comment on - ignorance is bliss.

Good luck to your customers, if you ever decide to produce anything of worth, metalcraze.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I don't know, either you just randomly post something without reading; or you're just trolling.

"buy from a store in Europe that sales video games? Pretty simple idea I just threw at you, huh?"

No it's not a simple idea. Because no matter where I purchase Arma 3 from, I (and everyone else) is forced to use Steam. No matter what. What is so hard to understand here?

But as said before, it's pointless to discuss with people like you who accept every "OK" and "I agree" button they run into if that allows them to play. You people defend Steam as it would be your life, and ignoring all valid reasons the "other side" provides. And now please stop telling people bullcrap like "simply buy somewhere else" when they have no real alternative to your "oh so great Steam". :rolleyes:

Look, it's pretty common knowledge that you are the grumpiest person on this forum. You fly off the handle for the simplest of things and talk down to people like they are complete idiots. So yeah, it's not surprising you found something else to hate and will stop at nothing to dehumanize people for liking or finding no fault with Steam. You then create some "consumer rights" theory out of thin air, which I'm to understand means W0lle's theory that he should have complete power over everything in the universe to fit his wants and desires at the expense of everyone else's.

Would you say that is an honest critique of yourself, W0lle?