AI Improvement

[Steakslim 1]

Indeed. The only time I encounter troublesome lag is usually the result of a large mission (domi or insurgency mostly) running so long that it more or less starts to bug out the server, and that usually results in more than just lag anyways. However all that is remedied with a restart of the mission or server reset.

[metalcraze 290]

How can you manage to have fun when there's so much lag and yes I have a very good PC and High speed internet. I find the multiplayer part to be useless.

I play on servers with up to 150 ms ping and I still find it very playable even then.

In fact I'm really surprised ArmA2 can have so much going on in a mission and run so smooth in MP at ~100 ms ping - especially after 1.60 and its warping fix.

[-Coulum- 35]

I have horrible lag. I get around 400 ping at best, and well over 1000 at the worst. I gotta say that when I tried multiplayer on anything other than LAN I hated it... but I think I am a rare exception as most people don't have such horrible ping... do they?

On Lan though I have no problem, even with tons of ai and shit like that.

[mr.g-c 6]

The video isn't missing any frames. The reason the video gives the illusion that the AI 'magically appears' is because Ivan steps back out of the LOS before the AI leans and fires, but if you take a look at where the AI is positioned before Ivan retreats you will notice that it is in exactly the same position as where it appears from when it leans out to fire.

You are wrong but i dont will invest the time to strip the video apart and prove you wrong.

Believe what you want, for me its a missing animation transition anyway ;-)

[maturin 12]

I have horrible lag. I get around 400 ping at best, and well over 1000 at the worst. I gotta say that when I tried multiplayer on anything other than LAN I hated it... but I think I am a rare exception as most people don't have such horrible ping... do they?

On Lan though I have no problem, even with tons of ai and shit like that.

Anything over 200 ping is mediocre, fast approaching bad, and 200-300 is the usual standard for games across the Atlantic Ocean. But ArmA remains playable at those levels (unlike most shooters).

But yeah, your connection is just bad.

[-Coulum- 35]

But yeah, your connection is just bad.

Yeah figured as much. That's why I'm so ai crazy. When you play with just 2-7 other people on a LAN the ai make a big difference.

You are wrong but i dont will invest the time to strip the video apart and prove you wrong.

Believe what you want, for me its a missing animation transition anyway ;-)

I tend to agree with you. Either missed frames, lag, a glitch, or lack of animations. That's just to far for the ai to lean so quickly.

I also wonder, do you think its possible BIS would not focus so much on ai in order to make the game run smoother, in order to please all the "will arma 3 be more optimized" people?

[Dingo8 1]

What lag? Do you live in Patagonia?

He may have been referring to low framerate and stuttering, instead of a lagging net connection. Some people confuse the concepts.

I have horrible lag. I get around 400 ping at best, and well over 1000 at the worst. I gotta say that when I tried multiplayer on anything other than LAN I hated it... but I think I am a rare exception as most people don't have such horrible ping... do they?

On Lan though I have no problem, even with tons of ai and shit like that.

Is Arma the only game giving you such high pings? Are you trying local servers only? What kind of internet connection do you have? Do you use a wifi connection to your router? Lots of possible factors.

[-Coulum- 35]

Is Arma the only game giving you such high pings? Are you trying local servers only? What kind of internet connection do you have? Do you use a wifi connection to your router? Lots of possible factors.

Yeah other games give me pretty high pings. Not quite in the 400 but around 150 - 350. I remember trying to play americas army and having bullets impact 8 seconds after I shot them at the wall 2 inches infront of me. The problem is There are no good quality highspeed internet providers that reach the area where I live, and I can't seem to find and local arma servers. I know its not arma's fault though, but rather my own.

[Dingo8 1]

Yeah other games give me pretty high pings. Not quite in the 400 but around 150 - 350. I remember trying to play americas army and having bullets impact 8 seconds after I shot them at the wall 2 inches infront of me. The problem is There are no good quality highspeed internet providers that reach the area where I live, and I can't seem to find and local arma servers. I know its not arma's fault though, but rather my own.

Yeah, it's likely your internet connection then. In case you're using wifi, that may be significantly adding to your ping too if there's too much interference from other devices like cordless phones, microwaves and wireless cameras, regardless of how many bars your reception indicator shows.

[metalcraze 290]

I also wonder, do you think its possible BIS would not focus so much on ai in order to make the game run smoother, in order to please all the "will arma 3 be more optimized" people?

Don't use AI in missions = game will run smoother. Problem solved.

[neokika 62]

in order to please all the "will arma 3 be more optimized" people?

Yeah, remove ai, mod support, the awesome shaders, physX, limit the view distance to 250m and make 1x1 km's maps.

Let's go and please them...;)

[-Coulum- 35]

Yeah, remove ai, mod support, the awesome shaders, physX, limit the view distance to 250m and make 1x1 km's maps.

Let's go and please them...

Okay yeah dumb idea on my part. Its just we've seen or heard lots about improvement to all of those things but nothing really for the ai.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Interview with Ivan Buchta

Regarding the AI improvements in general, we would mainly like to achieve more natural movement of the AI soldiers. The Micro-AI system already makes the AI entities formidable opponents, but there is a lot to improve in terms of the visuals. Also, we put a lot of effort into "teaching" AI to use the new features, e.g. underwater movement, first aid routines or customizable loadouts....... Instead (of blindfire), it would be much more interesting to make the AI use more suppressive fire and smoke grenades, as well as to make the suppressive fire more accessible to human commanders.

and there was another one were BIS said (don't shoot me!) that they want to limit/reduce AI actions (performance tweak?) at certain range/distance. It would be good to know if A3 will have a userfriendly AI interface so players can adjust AI settings "on the fly" or via specific AI test/demo missions.

[Smurf 12]

and there was another one were BIS said (don't shoot me!) that they want to limit/reduce AI actions (performance tweak?) at certain range/distance. It would be good to know if A3 will have a userfriendly AI interface so players can adjust AI settings "on the fly" or via specific AI test/demo missions.

Well, they already do that somehow. The firefights that take place near to the player have more "fidelity" than those that happens far away. Also, for campaign at least, they said that the world wouldn´t be populated, instead the IAs are created when the player reach a certain radius.

Also there is a mod for A2 that "fold" AI groups that are far away from the player in one single unit, saving resources.

All good ideas, but how about MP?

And yeah, an interface just like those "AI Sliders" in sports games would be really great.

[Vixente 10]

Maybe not focusing much in AI improvement results in a performance problem when there are a lot of AI, who knows...

I think one of the things that they have to revise the most is when an AI gets engaged in an open area. Who the hell would kneel, stand up just there when taking fire? At least prone, ok. But the normal (human) thing to do is to run (sprint) to get under cover... a bush, a rock, a wall, slope, corner, just hide anywhere to not get killed.

Some great mods in A2 already achieve this (ASR, UPSMON, ZEUS... if i remember correctly) and other things, which is great and you feel it when engaging those AIs. It's not like a player, but the improvement is enormous. So, if BIs does not substantially improve AI, i am confident that the community will. :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Maybe not focusing much in AI improvement results in a performance problem when there are a lot of AI, who knows...

I think one of the things that they have to revise the most is when an AI gets engaged in an open area. Who the hell would kneel, stand up just there when taking fire? At least prone, ok. But the normal (human) thing to do is to run (sprint) to get under cover... a bush, a rock, a wall, slope, corner, just hide anywhere to not get killed.

Some great mods in A2 already achieve this (ASR, UPSMON, ZEUS... if i remember correctly) and other things, which is great and you feel it when engaging those AIs. It's not like a player, but the improvement is enormous. So, if BIs does not substantially improve AI, i am confident that the community will. :)

Yep, i agree with you. I expect the same kind of evolution than the one we had from OFP to ArmA/ArmA2. BUT i must say the AI is somehow still more enjoyable in OFP/CWA than in ArmA2 (in my very humble opinion), even if the AI is much more advanced in ArmA2, but somehow cluncky and unnatural, while in OFP/CWA it's more straightforward, and with very quick reactions.

[-Coulum- 35]

Some great mods in A2 already achieve this (ASR, UPSMON, ZEUS... if i remember correctly) and other things, which is great and you feel it when engaging those AIs. It's not like a player, but the improvement is enormous. So, if BIs does not substantially improve AI, i am confident that the community will.

Oh yeah your definitely right. I am sure there will be a host of ai mods for a3. But the thing is, when it comes to the ai, alot of it is hard coded and cannot be changed or modified by the community easily. That's why I hope BIS perfect these little things so that the community doesn't have to worry about making work around's to fix them and can expand/improve the ai instead of fix them.

[maturin 12]

Right. We have tons of AI mods, some of them quite involved and heavily scripted, offering functions that are entirely new.

And yet, no one has managed to change the basic functions of AI target acquisition. No one has been able to use their ears correctly, or balance their eyesight for seeking out hidden shooters. Some stuff can't be changed without a developer rewrite.

[-Coulum- 35]

AI is somehow still more enjoyable in OFP/CWA than in ArmA2 (in my very humble opinion), even if the AI is much more advanced in ArmA2, but somehow cluncky and unnatural, while in OFP/CWA it's more straightforward, and with very quick reactions.

In some ways, yes, I agree with you. Overall I find Arma 2 ai to be much more challenging and realistic. But in OFP I had less of those "What the FUCK is that ai trying to do" moments. in OFP you shot at an ai, he went prone and returned fire. In arma 2 you shoot at an ai and there's a multitude of possible reactions, some of which are brilliant, and some of which are worse than just going prone and shooting back.

Overall I would still prefer arma 2 ai any day of the week though, especially with mods like asr. I am hoping that I will prefer arma 3 ai to arma 2 ai as well...

And yet, no one has managed to change the basic functions of AI target acquisition. No one has been able to use their ears correctly, or balance their eyesight for seeking out hidden shooters. Some stuff can't be changed without a developer rewrite.

This. BIS needs to fix the obvious problems the ai have that cannot be fixed by modders.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I am hoping that I will prefer arma 3 ai to arma 2 ai as well...

Yes, this was my point. An advanced AI with less "why are you standing here doing nothing" or "god this is the wrong direction to walk if you wanna stay alive, my bad".

[Timnos 1]

Yes, watch it second by second.. the AI is magically appearing like a ghost around the corner and kills him. Looks like there is an animation transition missing.

Sorry for digging up this old post again but I stumbled upon some interesting combat footage today with a scene almost identical to the one in the E3 footage that we were discussing. Look how quick the guy leans around the corner and shoots at 0:58

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Anyway it's no big deal but I really hope the AI lean around corners like that in ArmA3, but I want the AI to aim, not spray like those guys in the above video lol.

[fireems 1]

I would love to see some sort of ASR AI in place, to improve the AI behavior. The AI as of now is terrible when reacting to fire....

[Grey-Legolas 10]

And yet, no one has managed to change the basic functions of AI target acquisition. No one has been able to use their ears correctly, or balance their eyesight for seeking out hidden shooters. Some stuff can't be changed without a developer rewrite.

Im a bit late but still want to admit that for me its a major problem of a game.

Yes, with some great mods mentioned above, its possible to add lots of really smart brain-points to ai, but untill BIS would fix most obvious ai problems (like strange aiming system e.g.), even most intellegent strategic ai attacks will be just useless, course their shooting system is quiet poor now and instead of opening fire at you computer soldiers may just run far away (and whatever the reason it is, this fact is just frustrating).

[katipo66 94]

Ace+Asr AI+Tpwc suppression+Slx Ai and these guys are very reluctant to die...

I've seen what's possible in A2 and look forward to something special in A3.

[-Coulum- 35]

Im a bit late but still want to admit that for me its a major problem of a game.

Yes, with some great mods mentioned above, its possible to add lots of really smart brain-points to ai, but untill BIS would fix most obvious ai problems (like strange aiming system e.g.), even most intellegent strategic ai attacks will be just useless, course their shooting system is quiet poor now and instead of opening fire at you computer soldiers may just run far away (and whatever the reason it is, this fact is just frustrating).

This. Even if ai were to have great tactical sense, and were able to make the most cunning plans, it doesn't matter if they turn at a ridiculosly slow speed to shoot the man right in front of them. It doesn't matter if they can't use cover properly. I doesn't matter... you get the point. Tons of macro ai can go to waste if there is crap micro ai to support. Crap macro ai can actually be challenging if it is supported by good micro ai.

And I know that its a ton to ask of bi and that really it will never be "perfect". But I just think that they need to focus on the bugs and fundamental problems in the building blocks of ai before trying to expand on top of them.

And mods are good but I also feel that often with mods there is a Placebo effect. That being said I think that BI should still try to implement what many mods such as asr have done, better yet, improve upon those mods.