AI Improvement

[HKFlash 9]

The cover issue is the real root of so many other AI issues. And the cover runs up against some thorny limitations.

In a 3D world without path nodes and defined positions around each object, the AI can't project himself forward in time and space to understand how good cover will be. They know only to adhere to objects, and on a good day, to put said object between himself and one or more enemies, with some leaning and lowered stance. It's very costly to draw line of sight rays between two units, much less constant checks between multiple units and their feet and hands and head and a whole battlefield of possible cover objects. So they know that they are in cover, but not whether they are actually sheltered from enemy fire, and they know where cover is, but not whether it will be any use.

Or so I understand from Suma's posts pre-1.60.

There's a lot of workarounds that need to be devised, and a lot of tweaks too. Like making the AI stay in cover that they have for more than a split second. Staying in formation ruins survivability, but survivability ruins mobility and responsiveness to orders. It's a cath-22 there.

A very nice explanation of the A.I. mechanics maturin. Hopefully people will better understand the issues with programming it.

[-Coulum- 35]

The cover issue is the real root of so many other AI issues. And the cover runs up against some thorny limitations.

In a 3D world without path nodes and defined positions around each object, the AI can't project himself forward in time and space to understand how good cover will be. They know only to adhere to objects, and on a good day, to put said object between himself and one or more enemies, with some leaning and lowered stance. It's very costly to draw line of sight rays between two units, much less constant checks between multiple units and their feet and hands and head and a whole battlefield of possible cover objects. So they know that they are in cover, but not whether they are actually sheltered from enemy fire, and they know where cover is, but not whether it will be any use.

Or so I understand from Suma's posts pre-1.60.

There's a lot of workarounds that need to be devised, and a lot of tweaks too. Like making the AI stay in cover that they have for more than a split second. Staying in formation ruins survivability, but survivability ruins mobility and responsiveness to orders. It's a cath-22 there.

I realize that the ai is extremely complex to code and I don't even pretend to fully undrstand it but what about cover systems for the ai? would this not allow them to stick to cover effectively? I mean I believe its already partially done now. It seems that many objects such as walls have positions of cover and a stance attached to it that provides maximum coverage while still allowing them to shoot. Now would it not be possible to attach a secondary stance object that would be the "safe" stance. Then detect when a bullet snaps by (which is possible in vbs) and trigger the secondary safe stance. No need to draw any rays that way, no? Of course its not that easy, and it wouldn't be faultless but at least it would improve the ai survivability, and make it look like the ai is worried about their life (and besides, humans aren't perfect either). Why wouldn't something like this be possible?

Hey with the new animations it wouldn't even be necessary to have a safe stance for each object. If a round snaps by a crouched ai make him drop down a degree. if he happens to be behind cover he'll appear to be hiding, and if he's not he'll look like he's flinching. I don't know, its all harder than it looks. But I still maintain that these types of changes are what are needed to make the ai look more human and less robot.

Staying in formation ruins survivability, but survivability ruins mobility and responsiveness to orders. It's a cath-22 there.

I would honestly prefer the ai to care for their lives more and abondon their formation. Of course they should not seperate more than 30 m or so but in combat I seriously doubt solders stay in the open to maintain wedge formation while under fire. And as is, the ai is too mobile. It is practically impossible to slow them down and there tactics seem closer to human wave rushes than anything else.

[BinaryCode64 1]

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Edited March 10, 2013 by BinaryCode64

[-Coulum- 35]

The AI should act as real as a person. Which is a daunting task.

Not daunting, but impossible. But yes the goal should be to get it as close as possible in as many aspects as possible.

For now. Lets just wait too see how the AI works in ArmA3.

Argh! But that's so damn hard!

[BinaryCode64 1]

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Edited March 10, 2013 by BinaryCode64

[froggyluv 2130]

A very nice explanation of the A.I. mechanics maturin. Hopefully people will better understand the issues with programming it.

Indeed. Great breakdown of the challenges and true nature of emergent AI. Even the layman can guestimate the difficulties of trying to get this multitude of AI attacking/defending in a massive 3d environment when every inch both vertical/horizontal matter and every bullet deadly. Theres a reason other games are just outright dropping AI in favor of the much coder friendlier MP arenas. BI is to be hugely commended for advancing this imho.

[-Coulum- 35]

Anybody spot anything today concerning the ai? Any small hints or indicators? I couldn't, but it was kind of hard to see what was going on in that night fight.

[Steakslim 1]

None that I saw. Probably the only bit we would have seen some AI action was cut short at the end of the Gamespot camera visit unfortunately. Hopefully tomorrow we'll see something with camera 2, or from Total Biscuit's visit.

[-Coulum- 35]

Was that bit at the end the start of Deterrence? If so, why the hell did they end it at the best part!!

Yes hopefully tomorrow will bring us better luck.

[Steakslim 1]

Well they were already running at about 20 min or so in the presentation of things, and like someone mentioned in the E3 thread, unlike last year where they showed up at the BIS booth late in the day, this time they showed up fairly early and thus couldn't hang around for nearly an hour.

[antoineflemming 14]

Was that bit at the end the start of Deterrence? If so, why the hell did they end it at the best part!!

Yes hopefully tomorrow will bring us better luck.

No. It was the infantry showcase. I was trying to get the LiveCam guy to ask for it, but he later said the submit question thing wasn't working...

[-Coulum- 35]

Ah I see, but infantry showcase would have been good too. O well, save the best till last I guess.

[Yeti1 1]

I hope to see an improved AI, hard as it is to code, it would be a decent part of progression for Arma.

[instagoat 133]

I just noticed something, this may have been a fluke, or it may have been improved CQB AI.

<- at 5:42, Ivan reloads and the AI, previously having moved towards the gate in the wall for cover notices this, and immediately -reverses direction- to keep his gun on him, and kills him.

Not something usual, to be owned like this by AI in an Arma game, at such a short distance too no less.

I hope this is an actual indication of AI improvements, rather than an accident.

[mr.g-c 6]

I really hope that there are some BI Devs exclusively working on the ArmA3 AI. Adding new reaction-routines, something which is crucial.

In the Iron Front Liberation Game, they added nice things, for instance that AI passengers in (unprotected) Vehicles Backseats, react on their own on incoming enemy fire, ejecting from the vehicle once its below a certain speed and start to fight/protect the vehicle. It also adds to the impression that they care more (actually at all!) about themselves, because staying there in the back will get them killed/wounded for sure.

In ArmA2 you need the lame squadleader to give the orders, which he sometimes simply does not, leading to all backseat-passangers getting killed.

This is just one of "routines" that desperately need to be added to the AI, if higher performance costs or not (4 Core quasi standard these days, by 2013 i will have a 6-core at least or eve 8-core.)

---------- Post added at 01:33 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------

I just noticed something, this may have been a fluke, or it may have been improved CQB AI.

<- at 5:42, Ivan reloads and the AI, previously having moved towards the gate in the wall for cover notices this, and immediately -reverses direction- to keep his gun on him, and kills him.

Not something usual, to be owned like this by AI in an Arma game, at such a short distance too no less.

I hope this is an actual indication of AI improvements, rather than an accident.

Yes, watch it second by second.. the AI is magically appearing like a ghost around the corner and kills him. Looks like there is an animation transition missing.

[Timnos 1]

Yes, watch it second by second.. the AI is magically appearing like a ghost around the corner and kills him. Looks like there is an animation transition missing.

At 5:38 the AI quickly leans around the corner, fires at Ivan, then moves back behind cover. Ivan continues to press forward and as Ivan comes onto the AI's LOS it fires at Ivan whilst stepping left towards cover in a crouched stance. Ivan backs off after being hit so that the AI can't get a clear shot at him, now the AI leans out from behind cover again in a crouched stance and kills Ivan. The AI is definitely leaning in ArmA3.

[-Coulum- 35]

I just noticed something, this may have been a fluke, or it may have been improved CQB AI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziotr...3&feature=plcp <- at 5:42, Ivan reloads and the AI, previously having moved towards the gate in the wall for cover notices this, and immediately -reverses direction- to keep his gun on him, and kills him.

Not something usual, to be owned like this by AI in an Arma game, at such a short distance too no less.

I hope this is an actual indication of AI improvements, rather than an accident.

No. I want to believe but no. They basically said that the ai in e3 are arma 2 ai + betas so I really doubt this was some new behaviour. And really Buchta got killed because he was not playing properly. Even against the ai, You don't just run up to them when they already have a bead on you. That popping out around the corner did look awful weird though, not sure what to make of that. looked almost like a bug, or a really really big lean. If that were ai improvements than awesome. But I think it was just random.

[Timnos 1]

That popping out around the corner did look awful weird though, not sure what to make of that. looked almost like a bug, or a really really big lean.

It was the new double lean animation, in ArmA3 when in the leaning position an extra step can be taken to lean out even further. If you watch the lean animations shown from the 3rd person perspective the movement is very rapid, that is why it appears that the AI is 'popping' around the corner.

[mr.g-c 6]

At 5:38 the AI quickly leans around the corner, fires at Ivan, then moves back behind cover. Ivan continues to press forward and as Ivan comes onto the AI's LOS it fires at Ivan whilst stepping left towards cover in a crouched stance. Ivan backs off after being hit so that the AI can't get a clear shot at him, now the AI leans out from behind cover again in a crouched stance and kills Ivan. The AI is definitely leaning in ArmA3.

Look at it again in fullscreen dude. The Ai is magically appearing, or "beamed" into the position just a second before the player was "killed". Looks like an animation transition missing, or the Video is missing a few frames.

[Timnos 1]

Look at it again in fullscreen dude. The Ai is magically appearing, or "beamed" into the position just a second before the player was "killed". Looks like an animation transition missing, or the Video is missing a few frames.

The video isn't missing any frames. The reason the video gives the illusion that the AI 'magically appears' is because Ivan steps back out of the LOS before the AI leans and fires, but if you take a look at where the AI is positioned before Ivan retreats you will notice that it is in exactly the same position as where it appears from when it leans out to fire.

[ilovebeer 0]

The AI is probably my biggest concern for ArmA III as with the previous games. Each new game (OFP,ArmA, ArmA II) the AI does get better however I think there is a lot of room for improvement but I know it must be extremely difficult to tune.

[killerwhale 1]

the AI sucks at urban combat, and the multiplayer part always sucked as well.

[Steakslim 1]

Which is strange because I almost exclusively play MP, and always manage to have fun.

[killerwhale 1]

How can you manage to have fun when there's so much lag and yes I have a very good PC and High speed internet. I find the multiplayer part to be useless.

[maturin 12]

What lag? Do you live in Patagonia?