More gun simulation? interaction

[rallyolle 10]

well alot of time when playing coop is spent as INF, yeah?

When I'm new in a bigger community alot of time will be spent as infantry usually. When I play with close friends we do SF stuff on foot mostly.

Anyway I was thinking about more interaction with the guns, like gun malefunctions, different reloads, rackin'.

In the popular(read mandatory) mod ACE your gun can jam but its just text telling you and you click fix jam and you're done.

You know how some games lets you manually cock your shotgun or pull the bolt, I love that feeling and I want more of it.

What I tought would be cool is a dynamic and ofcourse animated system.

Making the guns more interactive, not just aiming and shooting.

kind of like in magicka where after a while you learn combinations for certain spells and you do them faster and faster... if you had controls to do various things with your gun, you would get efficient with it.

These are just examples of how it could be control wise, Im sure u could have more or less steps aswell, gotta have a balance where its not too much tho.

G release magazine.

R (hold or Press) grip/release magazine / holster grab new magazine

F lock bolt or whats it called lul

T Cock/rack the gun. (could perhaps have mouse movments too, T to grab etc)

Scroll down/move mouse to move magazine between in the gun/pulled out/holsterd in your vest.

Space (toggle or hold) inspect gun with mouse movment, similar to alt looking.

(so that you can hold space and turn the mouse and see if you have a double feed or wtf is up)

Notice that I give multiply button suggestions for actions, its hard to know what would work good without testing, hopefully you'll get the idea tho.

Ok so a tactical reload would look something like

R (grab your mag)

G (release the mag)

Pull/scroll (mag out)

Pull/scroll (move mag/hand down)

F/R (holster the mag, perhaps that would be R's function in this position)

F/R (Grab a new magazine, perhaps that would be R's function in this position)

Up/scroll (bring new mag up)

Up/scroll (push the new mag in)

R (release your grip of the mag)

a speed reload you could just drop the mag by releasing and grabbing a new mag.

Ok so now malefunctions become more intressting aswell.

You might have to lock the bolt back pulling your mag out etc.

rack a few times w/e. different malefunctions and it can be % random how hard your gun lock up.

Ofcourse it could all be toggable with game difficulty or a separate option if you dont want to do things manually.

you might have to strip it down..

At the very least I want the option for manual bolt action.

What do you people think of the general idea? more manual things. interaction. (dont get locked up on my specific controls or suggestions)

[echosixgolf 10]

I think just an additional key for racking your weapon would suffice to simulate immedieate action. If that doesn't clear the jam, just use the standard reload button which would clear the jam, with an appropriate time delay, and simulate remedial action. The multi-key setup your suggesting sounds over complicated and swings past practical and too much into the realm of ultra-realism.

I understand that you're tying to translate how effective you are at playing the game is how well your "avatar" performs actions in game. This would in turn force people to practice/train at weapons handling to be efficient in game. Interesting idea, but I for one would turn the option off via settings if it were included.

[rye1 21]

Hmm, if you could figure out a good way to have multiple types of malfunctions and ways to clear - with an individuals input added to that to clear X jam without key tapping 100 keys then that would be awesome. Until then I don't agree with your post, even though a good statement... too many keys for my liking but that's my personal opinion.

[metalcraze 290]

QTE is a bad idea. I don't want silly combos for simple reloading in ArmA.

If you want guns to behave more realistically (with jamming and overheating) you can install ACE mod right now and vote for this ticket for ArmA3:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/26274

[icebreakr 3159]

I agree. Been to the firing range to test out 12+ weapons (pistols, rifles) and its a damn shame a regular arma bloke doesn't know how to reload a mag on M4.

More focus is needed on the realism of guns.

[dm 9]

QTE is a bad idea. I don't want silly combos for simple reloading in ArmA.

This.

I dont want to have to play a damn minigame every time I want to shoot someone. Its not really the point of the series...

[Daniel 0]

This.

I dont want to have to play a damn minigame every time I want to shoot someone. Its not really the point of the series...

This also. We do need stoppages and overheating barrels, for their tactical implications, not just to give the player another set of keys to learn. The OP's suggestion is definitely in mod territory.

[PrivateWolf 10]

I dont like the idea of that PRESS G TO REMOVE MAG!! PRESS R TO GRIP MAG!! PRESS SCROLL TO TAP MAG!! or anything in those lines... Press R reload wait for 2 seconds and your done, basically what I want is a better reloading animation not these silly combos, what are you playing Tekken? This is arma son!

[celery 8]

The only addition I'd want in weapon handling would be pressing the fire button to operate the bolt in bolt rifles and cock non-automatic shotguns.

[PuFu 4600]

The only addition I'd want in weapon handling would be pressing the fire button to operate the bolt in bolt rifles and cock non-automatic shotguns.

That would suffice for most of us anyhow. RO2 manual bolting works really well.

Anyhow, what i would like to see besides improved all reload animations and cocking the weapon, would be stuff like differentiate between quick reloads and dry reloads, proper anims for the leaf sights and so forth, that have been missing for a long time, and, just like with multiple source lights, should be in a 2012 game...

[Maio 293]

That would suffice for most of us anyhow. RO2 manual bolting works really well.

Anyhow, what i would like to see besides improved all reload animations and cocking the weapon, would be stuff like differentiate between quick reloads and dry reloads, proper anims for the leaf sights and so forth, that have been missing for a long time, and, just like with multiple source lights, should be in a 2012 game...

Do we still have leaf sights in ArmA 3:confused: Anyway I get what you mean and I agree

[Tonci87 163]

That would suffice for most of us anyhow. RO2 manual bolting works really well.

Anyhow, what i would like to see besides improved all reload animations and cocking the weapon, would be stuff like differentiate between quick reloads and dry reloads, proper anims for the leaf sights and so forth, that have been missing for a long time, and, just like with multiple source lights, should be in a 2012 game...

I agree, there should really be a seperate dry reload and quick reload animation

[-Coulum- 35]

This would be neat but only the first few times you use it. After that it would probably become a hassle. I am also very interested in actually understanding what my avatar is doing and how to use all the different types of weapons. I like to think I learn something while playing arma but... There are many other things I think devs should focus on instead and this kind of feature would quickly lose it's cool factor and make the game have an even steeper learning curve.

[jhoson14 10]

Dry reload, quick reload animation, clearing jam and actual using the hands to reload would be awesome!

But i would trade it all just to have that last bullet left on my chamber to count as 30+1 next time i reloaded my gun.

[HyperU2 11]

I've had more jams in ACE than I had irl, excluding blanks, it can be overdone.

[instagoat 133]

well alot of time when playing coop is spent as INF, yeah?

When I'm new in a bigger community alot of time will be spent as infantry usually. When I play with close friends we do SF stuff on foot mostly.

Anyway I was thinking about more interaction with the guns, like gun malefunctions, different reloads, rackin'.

In the popular(read mandatory) mod ACE your gun can jam but its just text telling you and you click fix jam and you're done.

You know how some games lets you manually cock your shotgun or pull the bolt, I love that feeling and I want more of it.

What I tought would be cool is a dynamic and ofcourse animated system.

Making the guns more interactive, not just aiming and shooting.

kind of like in magicka where after a while you learn combinations for certain spells and you do them faster and faster... if you had controls to do various things with your gun, you would get efficient with it.

These are just examples of how it could be control wise, Im sure u could have more or less steps aswell, gotta have a balance where its not too much tho.

G release magazine.

R (hold or Press) grip/release magazine / holster grab new magazine

F lock bolt or whats it called lul

T Cock/rack the gun. (could perhaps have mouse movments too, T to grab etc)

Scroll down/move mouse to move magazine between in the gun/pulled out/holsterd in your vest.

Space (toggle or hold) inspect gun with mouse movment, similar to alt looking.

(so that you can hold space and turn the mouse and see if you have a double feed or wtf is up)

Notice that I give multiply button suggestions for actions, its hard to know what would work good without testing, hopefully you'll get the idea tho.

Ok so a tactical reload would look something like

R (grab your mag)

G (release the mag)

Pull/scroll (mag out)

Pull/scroll (move mag/hand down)

F/R (holster the mag, perhaps that would be R's function in this position)

F/R (Grab a new magazine, perhaps that would be R's function in this position)

Up/scroll (bring new mag up)

Up/scroll (push the new mag in)

R (release your grip of the mag)

a speed reload you could just drop the mag by releasing and grabbing a new mag.

Ok so now malefunctions become more intressting aswell.

You might have to lock the bolt back pulling your mag out etc.

rack a few times w/e. different malefunctions and it can be % random how hard your gun lock up.

Ofcourse it could all be toggable with game difficulty or a separate option if you dont want to do things manually.

you might have to strip it down..

At the very least I want the option for manual bolt action.

What do you people think of the general idea? more manual things. interaction. (dont get locked up on my specific controls or suggestions)

This is complete overkill.

Arma isn´t a manual of arms trainer, it´s a battlefield simulator. Be happy that we already get gun specific reloading animations. Anything more complicated than that should be done by the modding community, for those who want to overload an already crammed interface with more dubiously useful commands.

My two cents on this, for what they´re worth.

[icebreakr 3159]

HyperU2: You probably fired way more shots in arma than in RL, too? But I could be wrong ;)

I agree, all those keys for reloading are a hassle. But drawing a certain move that corresponds to the RL movement can be achieved with mouse for example. Reloading AK47: holding R key and then moving mouse right & down. Reloading M4: holding R key and then moving mouse up & 2x down.

[HyperU2 11]

I don't know but I mean in one day of ARMA it's more jams than in one day in the service. Not over lifetime. Civilian stuff too.

At least it's not as bad as Far Cry 2, but those were found weapons so it's understandable there.

[Beagle 684]

Funny Idea and pure nonsense because I can clearly remember I had only one weapon malfunction (MG3,G3, MP2) with life ammunition out of 2400 round fired in total in a 18 month service time.

Practice rounds are another topic.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Such interaction-minigames maybe look "cool" and "great" within the first minutes/hours but later it will be switched off because it doesn't feel real or is too much of a hassle.

IIRC the M249 SAW (5.56mm) is called "the little princess of LMG's".... and USMC and US Army are looking for something better. ;)

[HyperU2 11]

I ran the SAW on the widest gas port setting and had no issues. I once fucked one up firing off a huge belt of blanks, without a stoppage. (not my problem I was attached to some pogs for training and they had to clean it)

[wipman 1]

Hi, one way of avoid to have to 3000 keys for do something, could be to press the key for a while and that would open a tree, that would have the main option and other eight, if they exist, and this eight possible options... should/could have other seven alternatives; manage all this with radial wheels that we should only have to choose what we want and then left click on the option that we've choosen and our character performs the action. Let's C ya

[Tonci87 163]

Guys seriously you are taking this waay to far. You know that I like realism, but only until it start to feel awkward. R is everything that is needed. Let BIS make nice and accurate reloading animations and everything will be ok

[st_dux 26]

We might also want to make it so that movement is controlled by several different keys, one corresponding to each limb. After all, you can't walk IRL just by pressing a magical W key; you must move each leg separately.

/sarcasm

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah we can make it like QWOP. Perfect system.