Perfect accuracy when firing from the hip

[SandboxPlaya 10]

*I mean "unaimed shoulder firing"

Personally, this has always been bugging me in Arma/OP:CWC. I'm not a "realism geek", but I think we can all agree that this feature is not realistic so we've got that backed up.

No, the reason why I don't like it is because it heavily impacts the balance in PvP multiplayer modes.

For instance, in an urban environemnt, I can run around with A .50 Barret sniper rifle and blast people from the hip at close range, I experienced situations where I was able to outgun players using sub-machine guns in a direct confrontation, they got a couple of shots on me, hurt me, but I survived, the same can't be said about my .50 bullets which knocked them down instantly.

I hate to say this, but this is one of the things which mainstream games do better(no crosshair, deviation). For the sake of roleplaying, at least sniper rifles should have no crosshair when not aiming. I believe it's common sense that when you pick a long-range weapon, you should be effective at long range and this feature allows you to be effective everywhere.

There are some other reasons why I consider it to be out of place too.

What's your take on this issue?

EDIT: Some people are still not getting the point. I don't care whether it's shoulder firing or hip firing. The thing is, scoped weapons dominate in ARMA as they are because of huge maps and very long line of sights. Scoped weapons are powerful as they are, there's hardly ever a situation when iron sights and aim points come to their own. And yet, this mechanics makes things easier for them even more.

As a result, when people are choosing their loadouts, everybody goes for some sort of magnification, be it a sniper rifle or an assault rifle with an Acog. And even if you choose a loadout like this, your CQB abilities don't get compromised. You just aren't at any sort of disadvantage against weapons not having any scopes on them when you enter a CQB engagement mainly because everything can shoot accurately without aiming.

And that's wrong. Specalisations matter. When choosing your loadout, you should be forced to choose the right kit for the job you're about to do. Scoped weapons shouldn't be the ultimate GO-2 choice no matter what. There shouldn't be any jack-of-all-traders, master-of-them-all option.

Now, I'm not saying that crosshairs should be removed from all weapons by default, it doesn't change a lot if weapons with iron sights have them or not. But there's just no justification for scoped weapons to come with crosshairs.

Simply put:

Urban area ahead? Use a gun with iron sights or aiming recticles.

Large open area ahead? Use optics.

^^ that's the philosophy I'm after and it's not the case in Arma1&2, scoped weapons > ALL, no matter what situation.

As for this being a server option, there are way too many. I don't think that most server owners even realise how much of a problem this is. IMO they should be able to choose whether weapons without optics have or have no crosshair. Scoped weapons should never be allowed to have one, though.

Edited November 17, 2011 by SandboxPlaya

[roberthammer 582]

It is a problem to turn off crosshair in the server? then you won't see any hip firing for sure

[SandboxPlaya 10]

It is a problem to turn off crosshair in the server? then you won't see any hip firing for sure

That's something you can barely ever affect so shouldn't it be standard?

[Daniel 0]

It is standard on most realism orientated servers. It's always as simple as picking the difficulty setting for the server host. You never hip fire in Arma, your weapon is always shouldered. Weapons such as the GPMGs and high calibre sniper rifles should probably have a different animation than being shouldered all the time, or at least have a big weapon sway over time.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Daniel

[Tonci87 163]

play on servers where crosshairs are disabled.

[roberthammer 582]

That's something you can barely ever affect so shouldn't it be standard?

Well , you can select Veteran Difficulty instead of Cadet , so you get crosshair off automaticly

[SandboxPlaya 10]

You guys are telling me no news. The thing is, most servers have it on so you don't get much to choose from. Therefore, don't you think it should be off by default? As it's rather gamebreaking.

[Daniel 0]

To crosshair or not to crosshair is literally a ten year old argument, the only sensible outcome is to let the servers decide.

Personally I think they should be off by default. But I know many players on these forums will disagree passionately with that. :p

[dmarkwick 261]

If most servers have it on then I have to assume it's how they want it. So in that sense you're complaining about server admin preferences. However, if it's your belief that some servers will have it enabled out of ignorance or laziness, then maybe disabled by default would be better, but I think it already is on higher difficulty levels.

Aside from that, 2 things occur to me:

1. Weapons are always shouldered, there is no hip-firing. As such, a degree of accuracy is assured.

2. If a RL sniper were to (for some reason) find himself in an urban roaming situation, are you sure he wouldn't have the same abilities as in the game?

[-=seany=- 5]

It doesn't hurt the balance because....

...you can just turn off virtual cross-hairs.

If servers have it on (Virtual Sight) it is because they want it that way, not beacuse they forgot or are stupid.

[metalcraze 290]

You guys are telling me no news. The thing is, most servers have it on

Who cares about public servers?

[Beagle 684]

Who cares about public servers?

A lot of regular players. The game is not all about "elitist" clansmen and a lot of public servers deliver some serious gameplay, at least in the evenings.

Public does not mean unadministered.

[Daniel 0]

And metalcraze strikes again with all the tact of a tactical breeze block. :p

[smookie 11]

This is a spot on. ArmA animations clearly show the soldier is not firing from the hip but with his rifle shouldered. While I agree the accuracy is way too perfect (i am one of the players who _never_ use sights) and I can easily hit targets 600 m away with just a couple of bullets using M16A2 ingame, I don't think drastic changes should be applied. Rather perhaps bigger crosshair area minus the comma which serves at the moment as direct hit point.

And metalcraze strikes again with all the tact of a tactical breeze block.

Did you mean bollock?;)

[Beagle 684]

It takes one mouseklick in difficulty menu and the crosshair is gone. Now add weapon sway in option menu and you can forget about "crosshair" accuracy.

Seriously, If you want this kind of visual and immersive "feel there" gameplay, stay away from large scale multiplayer missions.

The multiplayer croud usually starts crying whenever 3rd, crosshair is off and grass layer is forced on.

Multiplayer like CTI warfare or Dominations is spawn, frag, grind and airquaking sniper-AT-medics.

Any more serious and more restrictive gameplay that needs an battle order is better played in a small group on a passworded server.

[dragon01 902]

Firing in AII is quite realistic if you have crosshairs off, because your weapon is shouldered all the time. IRL, you could shove a .50cal down someone's gut and fire, as you'd most likely hit from such a close range. Firing without looking down sights is possible, and at point-blank range, you can occasionally hit an enemy when doing that.

[nodunit 397]

Fire from the hip...fire from the hip?! FIRE FROM THE HIP?! FFFFF

Dear sir please note that in these games you are not actually firing from the hip, the weapon is nestled tightly against the soldiers shoulder which can be accurate. However recoil will have a greater effect especially with larger rifles. Without a doubt it is possible to use a sniper rifle this way but hardly the most effect, as it stands the largest deterrant for the rifle is weapon sway which is not impllimented quite right on all weapons...you mentioned the barret, yes this weapon feels oddly 'light'.

[Cripsis 10]

To crosshair or not to crosshair is literally a ten year old argument, the only sensible outcome is to let the servers decide.

Personally I think they should be off by default. But I know many players on these forums will disagree passionately with that. :p

Totally agree. I love realistic gameplay, others prefer casual gameplay, the most important thing is that we all have the option to choose.

[HyperU2 11]

I "shoot from the hip" without crosshairs all the time. Would it make you feel better to die that way?

[sic-disaster 311]

It has it's up and downside imo.

Most shooters have a cone of fire which I can not stand, because it makes firefights on longer distances way to luck-dependant.

I get the logic behind ArmA's crosshair, because the bullet will go where the barrel is pointing. As such it is something I really like though it comes with the downside that you can hit targets on a very long distance without aiming through the ironsights.

The centre of the crosshair will always be where the barrel is pointing, though running and sprinting will widen the sides of the crosshair and make the centre of it float around in that area, simulating fatigue which makes it hard to shoot at a distance.

Personally I really like the way the crosshairs are handled currently, and they make a lot of sense in CQB. To make it more realistic though it could use some tweaks.

For instance, the sides of the crosshair could be made to stand apart a bit more, as when you are fully rested now you will have 100% accuracy despite not using the ironsights. Increasing the 'barrel float' area will make sure you need to use the ironsights for long range engagements while maintaining enough accuracy to keep the weapon simply shouldered in CQB.

As an extra addition, maybe the crosshair could be made sensitive to the distance you are aiming at.

Simply put, the 'barrel float' area increases the further away you aim.

It could be something like this: 0% float at 100 metres (like the crosshair is right now when rested), 10% float at 200 meters (like the crosshair would be after running for a while) etc. just to give a quick example.

EDIT:

Fatigue should be added to the factor by the way.

I would think it is best to keep the centre of the crosshair horizontally steady when rested, no matter the distance that is being aimed at. The centre of the crosshair should bob up and down when you are fatigued like it already does currently.

Edited November 16, 2011 by SiC-Disaster

[MADDOGdb7 10]

Just reduce visibility when hip firing and have a continual sway on the gun. The bullet should always exit the barrel straight but the gun shouldn't fall back into the same place every single time.

[wipman 1]

Hi, the animation shows the units with the weapon on the shoulder, the "hip firing" doesn't exists on the ArmA world; there isn't any disperssion difference between Aim Down the Sights or Fire From the Hip.

If they add new anims that allows you to rest or hold the weapon at the hip height... then it would make sense (the addition of disperssion when FFH) if the thing remains as until now... i don't see much sense on the poll's questions.

Realistic?:

Well... a assault rifle is easyer to hold and control shooting it from the shoulder even without ADS in comparison with shooting it from the hip; with the GPMGs the thing is the other way arround, a MG3 is easyer to hold and control FFH than from the shoulder; at least it was it for me. I don't think that a well implemented FFH hurts the MP balance in any way, the most experienced player with the weapon have more chances of win.

The crossair is there because what you see is a 2D image as you're seeing the things on a flat surface, the screen; and you don't have the feeling of the object (the weapon) in your hands so it's the closer method to it. If there were a better way sure that it would had been added to most of the FPS games years ago... but i didn't seen any better system, aside of the good (realistic) anims + progressive and proportional disperssion when it must combo. Let's C ya

[froggyluv 2136]

To each his own and glad the options are there for us all but personally loathe the crosshair in really any game -almost as much as artificially induced dispersion (thankfully not in Arma). I prefer quickly pulling up Irons for mid/long and trying to establish a feel for cqb shooting.

[ryguy 10]

This isn't even an argument, hip firing in arma is impossible. Already been said on first page.

[djfluffwug 10]

I noticed this a while back.

Well, what I noticed was the guns are way too accurate from the hip.

Firing at 200m from the hip I noticed that the standard rifle was always hitting at less that 2m difference from the centre of the screen.

Calculating that, that would mean that the gun would never sway more than 0.5 degrees from it's original position. That level of sway does not sound right.

I also tested while having a grenade explode in front of me but with similar results.