Wind! Do you want it to blow?

[Tonci87 163]

Well after watching this Video

wcSgRoSJGZk

(watch from 6:14) (Nice Video Guys!)

I started to ask myself if wind would be a good thing for Arma 3. It seems that it is possible to implement this in the Engine.

Would Arma 3 benefit from Wind?

Yes I think it would.

By playing Arma 2 with ACE Mod I discovered that wind makes Firefights a lot more interesting, especially over distance, since you have to take care of bullet drop and drift.

Bad weather conditions (like a storm) would have a visible impact on the game apart from some raindrops falling.

Would there be disadvantages?

Well I think especially Snipers and Pilots could have some initial problems until they get used to it. But I´m sure that they will accept it as an interesting challenge.

I can´t think of a single FPS game with wind implemented (apart from Arma 2 with ACE). By implementing this Feature BIS would once more prove to be a pioneer of the games industry, going beyond what other FPS games do.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes, i'm all for it :) And i would like it to affect the rain.

[Banshee 9]

Sure thing. Wind is not only challenging for snipers, but also for allmost all other elements.

The question is: How detailed will the windcalculation be? I hope a lot.

In Arma2 + ACE the actual windspeed and direction is taken into account at the very moment a bullet is fired. And only at the position where the shooter is at.

That means: The flying bullet is only influenced once by wind, calculating an offset from the point where the shooter aims at. That's not very advanced, but allready a start. :)

In real life a flying bullet is affected trough wind on the whole distance of it's travel.

Imagine a bullet flying trough a crosswind (left to right) blowing with 10 bft. In the open field it'll be influenced much more than when crossing patches of wood hinders the wind. Or when flying trough an area where you have falling winds due to mountains and hills nearby.

So the strength of wind and the direction are forces that may change a lot troughout the course of the bullets flight. Depending on speed, weight and other factors (humidity, temperature etc.) the flight of the bullet is influenced more or less.

[Clarkey1 10]

I think I remember Ivan saying somewhere that it was not in. I would really like to see it though, and with over 6 months till release there may still be hope for this feature.

I think the direction of wind can be just as important to making the decision of where to go next as the terrain does. I play with Warfx and ACE2 and I can say I love having to stop and check wind direction before popping a smoke. If you have to cross a danger zone in an urban area, getting accross safely can mean you have to know the wind direction or you might end up throwing a smoke grenade to the wrong side of the road! And with JTD's Fire and Smoke even a burning vehicle can effect how you maneuver.

[valnwt 11]

But how would this effect the performance?

[dmarkwick 261]

But how would this effect the performance?

Performance hit would be negligible. How the AI use wind might affect performance... unless AI are treated on a statistical basis and not simulated. That would work.

The pain would be syncing wind across all players so all players see the same effect especially as far as smoke is concerned. This is already a problem as far as I know as each client's PC generates its own wind independently. (I believe.) So wind + smoke is eye-candy as far as MP goes, to make it useful you'd need to sync it for sure. As for ballistics, well each player must make his own ballistic adjustments in any case so syncing is not so important there. As long as roughly the same strength of wind is apparent (i.e. not X player sees no wind and Y player sees max wind).

[EDcase 87]

I would like wind as long as it doesn't affect performance.

The ACE method would be fine for me.

A constant wind value which could change randomly in direction and strength a few times a minute or so.

This constant would offset projectiles once at the start of their flight and the influence would be relative to their caliber and speed.

Helicopters and planes would also be pushed in the direction of the wind. The force dependant on wind strength and size of vehicle.

AI do not have to deal with wind in vehicles and their projectiles are not affected. Perhaps their aim could be reduced a bit relative to wind strength.

Edited November 11, 2011 by EDcase

[mrcash2009 0]

As long as these features are kept as modules in the editor I have no issue at all, which seems like its the case. Hard coded wouldn't be so great.

I think much like the editor its fairly obvious (to me) allot of the things you see in this will be for arma3 in one way or another.

[Tonci87 163]

Well even Dwarden voted Yes on this, so I guess he likes the challenge too. :D

I really hope that you guys manage to implement this along with all the other promising features that were already announced.

For the implementation of this Feature:

Method 1:

Constant wind: Speed and Direction are set at Mission start and don´t change. There wouldn´t be any Problems with MP Synch but it would be kind of boring.

Method 2: Speed and Direction are changed by a random percantage (not too much regarding the direction of the wind to avoid wind from oposite direction) every 10 seconds (just an example). New data would have to be synched every 10 seconds.

Method 3: Speed and Direction are changed by a random percentage at a random intervall from (5-10) seconds (again just an example)

I think this would be the most desired option.

I think the impact on MP Synch wouldn´t be that big with the last method since only a few variables would have to be send over the server. Please correct me if I´m wrong.

I think this Feature shouldn´t be a module in the Editor, but there should be a module to disable it (just like in ACE)

[noubernou 77]

In Arma2 + ACE the actual windspeed and direction is taken into account at the very moment a bullet is fired. And only at the position where the shooter is at.

That is actually incorrect. Wind effects the bullet through the entire flight in ACE. The problem is that wind is constant everywhere on the island at once, so sometimes it appears to only effect it going in one direction. The wind also tends to blow generally in the same direction for longer periods of time (I rewrote the wind engine for ACE and force the in game wind engine to try and match it as best it can) so usually rounds will drift in the same direction.

What I would like to see from BIS is first off, network sync'd wind. I had to implement that. That should not be my job when dealing with something as crucial as the atmospheric effects on things in the game. Second I'd like to see the wind generation algorithm looked at a bit more closely. The wind currently if left alone will blow from the NW and two seconds later blow from the SE. Wind generally blows from one direction (when standing in an open plain) and varies over time to move from another direction.

If they really had the ability I'd like to see terrain affect wind as well. I have considered some models for this, but they are fairly processor intensive when implemented in SQF, so something native to the engine would be nice.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

As for ballistics, well each player must make his own ballistic adjustments in any case so syncing is not so important there. As long as roughly the same strength of wind is apparent (i.e. not X player sees no wind and Y player sees max wind).

This is actually a big issue in my opinion (and I am sure in a few others as well). Any role that contains a spotter needs to see the same wind for ballistics purposes. Marksmen and automatic riflemen and machinegunners who rely on spotters to get them on target need to make sure they have all the same base variables.

[Flash Thunder 10]

It might not be as elaborate for the AI due to performance costs but yes I would like to see this implemented, Sniping would be a lot more satisfying.

[Minoza 11]

It doesn't have to apply to the AI, some sort of "virtual" spread is enough - related to the difficulty, right?

But it is essential to simulate the same wind for all clients (human players) cause of:

a) smoke

b) spotters

c)...you think of it

[Banshee 9]

That is actually incorrect. Wind effects the bullet through the entire flight in ACE.

Ah sorry then. I was told diffrent from an ACE Dev. But that's a long time ago. :)

This is actually a big issue in my opinion (and I am sure in a few others as well). Any role that contains a spotter needs to see the same wind for ballistics purposes. Marksmen and automatic riflemen and machinegunners who rely on spotters to get them on target need to make sure they have all the same base variables.

I totally agree. We are heavily based on teamwork, so the spotter is a valuable asset. He's not only spotting the targets, but also tells the sniper about wind and all that. So it needs to be in sync.

[metalcraze 290]

It doesn't have to apply to the AI, some sort of "virtual" spread is enough - related to the difficulty, right?

It has to apply to AI - and no spread. Player weapons will be shooting right but AI will have some kind of silly spread? No. AI can already barely hit things as it is.

[pvt_ryan 10]

To be completely honest I don't think wind would add to the immersion factor unless it was graphically evident in the movement of flags and vegetation, and not just something that affected ballistics but was only detectable using some kind of equipment (to minimize any effects on performance). I'm not sure which of those the OP is asking about, but it's clear which one would affect performance less. However, like I said, I think the high performance version wouldn't add much, and although it would of course be awesome I don't know how costly it would be to simulate leaves and grass and such flowing in the wind.

[noubernou 77]

I totally agree. We are heavily based on teamwork, so the spotter is a valuable asset. He's not only spotting the targets, but also tells the sniper about wind and all that. So it needs to be in sync.

I should also explain to people that might not know, bullet drop and direction are simulated individually on each clients computer, so if the wind is different on each computer they will see tracer rounds going in different directions.

[metalcraze 290]

Pvt_Ryan - ArmA2 already visualizes wind so it actually affecting something is what is needed.

I should also explain to people that might not know, bullet drop and direction are simulated individually on each clients computer, so if the wind is different on each computer they will see tracer rounds going in different directions.

Shouldn't be hard to do - server should just dictate wind speed and direction to all clients - certainly won't bring the server and connection down

[rye1 21]

I want to hear the wind. :(

[maturin 12]

Windage for snipers is a must. Turning off the wind feels like going back to kindergarten.

If BIS left it out for other weapons to save on system resources or learning curve, that would be fine by me because the modders could plug it right back in again.

[pvt_ryan 10]

Pvt_Ryan - ArmA2 already visualizes wind so it actually affecting something is what is needed.

Oh, ok, haha... my mistake. Thanks for the info. Well, knowing that I think it would definitely add to the immersion.

[Minoza 11]

It has to apply to AI - and no spread. Player weapons will be shooting right but AI will have some kind of silly spread? No. AI can already barely hit things as it is.

Are we playing the same game? AI can certainly hit things... I play with ACE though.

Btw. what do you mean by "no spread"? It is already present, "AI accuracy" and "AI skill" are defined server side. The lower the accuracy the higher the spread is... On 1.0 setting, AI can kill you with 1 shot from a pistol, standing 150m away...

[dmarkwick 261]

It has to apply to AI - and no spread. Player weapons will be shooting right but AI will have some kind of silly spread? No. AI can already barely hit things as it is.

I don't see a real reason why the extra processing needed to simulate wind for AI is implemented - then a corresponding AI logic routine implemented to counter it. Seems like a wasted effort to me, might as well not implement it at all for AI and make the ingame assumption that such adjustments are being done.

I would suggest a skill-based distance penalty instead, so AI are unaffected at close range but lower skilled AI are affected at distance, with a wind speed multiplier. A simple solution, with results identical to simulating AI windage IMO.

[PuFu 4600]

metalcraze; please don't start with..." but..but..but...AI area cheating....*cries out loud*

[Cripsis 10]

I don't see a real reason why the extra processing needed to simulate wind for AI is implemented - then a corresponding AI logic routine implemented to counter it. Seems like a wasted effort to me, might as well not implement it at all for AI and make the ingame assumption that such adjustments are being done.

I would suggest a skill-based distance penalty instead, so AI are unaffected at close range but lower skilled AI are affected at distance, with a wind speed multiplier. A simple solution, with results identical to simulating AI windage IMO.

That sounds like the most logical method.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I want to hear the wind. :(

wind can be heard in BIS games since 2001 ...