ARMA 2: OA beta build 85478

[metalcraze 290]

I think part of the problem is that there's no wind simulation, no breathing simulation and a lack of microterrain.

Hitting is way too easy without wind (ACE helps this somewhat) and breathing.

If any of you tried JCove Lite you would know what breathing simulation does to firefights in VBS2 (basically hitting something 200m away with an AK is not a piss easy task at all anymore)

However leaving these bugs in the game is not a solution either. When an AI soldier takes 6 hits and doesn't go down it's the opposite extreme.

Edited October 14, 2011 by metalcraze

[Beagle 684]

When talking about body armour effectiveness and "how much bullte to drop" you have to use First aid module to see the full effect...this has to be in mind discussing that.

with First aid enabled you can stil pump 5.56mm into people till they die, and they will survive a 7.62

The problem with First Aid module and A.I. before was that you needéd up to TEN rounds to finish them.

That had to be fixed.

So, before talking about realism use all modules that are there and have to be considered, including surrender and waypoints and behaviour.

You cant just drop wo units on the map and consider it close to life by default without any further work.

[Robalo 465]

[85448] Fixed: Scripting command "Reveal" left target side as unknown, requiring visual confirmation (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25266#note-8)

That's going to suck. I was using reveal to give the AI more awareness and since there's no parameter for how much you want to reveal, the previous behaviour was good.

I fear that all my awareness improvements now will actually make the AI all-knowing and too good :(

Please BIS improve reveal by adding a parameter, make it like:

groupName reveal [unitName, knowsAbout]

so we can set how much is learned about the target.

EDIT: after reading kju's ticket note linked there, I understood his request in a completely different way: to sum it up, why do I need to switch to binoculars to ID a target if I'm already aware of it and looking at it through a 14x sniper scope ?

Edited October 15, 2011 by Robalo

[CarlGustaffa 4]

That's going to suck. I was using reveal to give the AI more awareness and since there's no parameter for how much you want to reveal, the previous behaviour was good.

...

groupName reveal [unitName, knowsAbout]

so we can set how much is learned about the target.

For you and me both. I also work with reveal knowing they only become presence aware, where side isn't revealed automatically causing fire. And the opposite being the case for others. So I agree, full control over knowsAbout (how much) during a reveal would be most welcome.

@Beagle: Huh? Wouldn't that be issues related to those modules? The core should be relatively well balanced, with additional fixes done to the modules. I don't use these modules much because they still produce errors (remove eventhandler animstate something), which I just got testing a SP mission of mine with one of these (simulation, friendly side only though), and because they hogs my system, and last I checked (a while ago) clearance was still bugged (can't get out of anim without debug console). I could also do my own tweaks using handledamage EH, but if everyone have to do that to get believable results, making missions became just that much more complex and certainly not a desired workflow.

@metalcraze: Fully agree. I wouldn't mind kill shots like this if it just became more difficult to get the hits in the first place. JCove Lite figure of eight movement of gun would be helpful, but I think even more would be required. Even weapon resting shouldn't fully negate it.

[twisted 128]

If any of you tried JCove Lite you would know what breathing simulation does to firefights in VBS2 (basically hitting something 200m away with an AK is not a piss easy task at all anymore).

Breathing and subsequent moving of the weapon aim would be absolutely awesome. isn't that what aimprecision command represents? might need to be increased a bit.

[metalcraze 290]

In ArmA2 the weapon movement when "breathing" is random and holding breath just lessens the effect. It isn't as realistic and important as in VBS2.

Anyway no harm in trying

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25486

[twirly 11]

[85440] Fixed: Bullets damage reduced too much over distance

My 2 cents again...

Lethality.

Any of these rounds should be lethal or incapacitating if I see blood. Maybe the heavier ones more incapacitating .... but all should be.

Body Armor.

If it hits body armor... don't show me blood. Show me a poof of something... but not blood.

Weapon shake.

Personally having the game shake my weapon depending on how much the game thinks I'm rattled or scared or tired... is just not the way to go. That's imposing things on me that may or may not exist. Different personalities will react differently. Who's to say???

Windage.

Introduce windage to make hitting targets at range more difficult. There's already wind in the game. Changes in wind direction and gusts can cause you to miss at range. That is more realistic and seems it might solve some of... if not all of.... the problems we are having here.

Another thing that blows me away is the shake when vehicles are around. I live in New Zealand and I know what an earthquake is. Besides the fact that my world doesn't shake every time I'm around a huge crane, truck, or jumbo jet for that matter... what I see represented in this game is 7 on the Richter Scale. Without a doubt!

I think you need to use sound better to represent "rumble"....lots of bass. Feel it in your stomach. I think it's that easy to increase awareness and therefore the immersion. The shake for vehicles is arcade.... not that real world at all IMHO.

For explosives.... yes shake and rumble... because there is a shockwave. It's going to move me!

I just see these things as polish. But it's always up to the developers.

Edited October 15, 2011 by twirly
Clarity

[Gera_CCT 12]

I always test betas with scenarios eye for an eye and laser show, and don´t know why but the AI is much more clever know, using covers on walls and sandbags, much less suicides, crouching more and less prone.

In the ending of eye for an eye i ordered my units to mount the truck (all already in safe mode) and saw my AI Machinegunner going prone and covering the road, after i and the sniper entered the vehicle he stand up and enters too, never saw that before lol.

This game surprises me ever replay i play :)

[no use for a name 0]

I'll say it again, THANK YOU BIS for your support and efforts!

Edited October 15, 2011 by No Use For A Name

[dysta 10]

Thanks you very much this was what I wanted to know ACE wounding system hehehe.

This is awesome :)

I've uploaded the video for you, the bullet damage is pretty much the same with ACE wounding system. At the torso is still deadly.

31XbhYszB3I

[stk2008 14]

Thanks for the video mate.

GS BTW :).

I wonder what it would be like against an a US soldier with body Armour?.

[Alex72 1]

In ArmA2 the weapon movement when "breathing" is random and holding breath just lessens the effect. It isn't as realistic and important as in VBS2.

Anyway no harm in trying

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25486

Yeah, would like it to be like in RO2 where they dont hold their breath until they turn blue like in ARMA2, but instead breath in - steady aim - breath out - steady aim - breath in - steady aim - breath out - steady aim. During the breathing in/out its unstable and more weapon sway. Its more realistic than what we have now with holding breath until we turn blue and then get really bad sway when exhaling.

[msy 22]

I have one CTD (which is repeatable for me) when I play Sick1's campaign SEAL TEAM SIX DEVGRU. At last mission BAD KARMA II the CTD will always happen with beta at least from 85015 to 85478. If I use 1.59.79384 official open version then it is OK to play.

I have posted in his thead but it seems like he did not notice it. So I put the issue here to see if anyone can help solve the problem.

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH

Application Name: arma2oa.exe

Application Version: 1.59.85.478

Application Timestamp: 4e98435f

Fault Module Name: arma2oa.exe

Fault Module Version: 1.59.85.478

Fault Module Timestamp: 4e98435f

Exception Code: c0000005

Exception Offset: 005d849b

OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1

Locale ID: 2052

Additional Information 1: 0a9e

Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

Additional Information 3: 0a9e

Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

Edited October 15, 2011 by msy

[Beagle 684]

Thanks for the video mate.

GS BTW :).

I wonder what it would be like against an a US soldier with body Armour?.

ALL combatants in ArmA are considerd to wear body armour...even those that show no trace of it in the model...unfortunately.

[stk2008 14]

ALL combatants in ArmA are considerd to wear body armour...even those that show no trace of it in the model...unfortunately.

Damn really?.

Oh well BIS are going in the right direction any ways.

Thanks

Oh one thing that was funny was last night I shot a soldier who was wearing a helmet I shot him with a tac50 at 1100m.

The bullet must have passed through helmet out the back and bounced off the floor.

Needless to say he dropped on the spot.

Though I did shoot the same man on another test all the same variables apart from it hit his gun twice and nothing happened?.

Wish gun damage was modeled because his gun would have been no good apart from as a hammer.

Edited October 15, 2011 by stk2008

[xeno 234]

ALL combatants in ArmA are considerd to wear body armour...even those that show no trace of it in the model...unfortunately.

... which is not the case, luckily.

Xeno

[dysta 10]

Though I did shoot the same man on another test all the same variables apart from it hit his gun twice and nothing happened?.

Wish gun damage was modeled because his gun would have been no good apart from as a hammer.

That happens a lot during the firefight. I was really frustrated when a clear shot hit right at the target's rifle, and he just get down like he wasn't get shot. The .50 however did maim him down even the weapon is on the way, though. :j:

[ast65 10]

Result of recent changes is that I can now run maniac on Utes airport taking out a full squad of enemy AI soldiers (mostly 7.62). Usually/too often, one shot is enough for me to take out one of them. I get to behave like a human regarding cover usage. Their only benefit of going low to make themselves less of a target, is now completely gone as an advantage. Instead I get the benefit since at least they are guaranteed to stay still. From what I see on youtube, protective gear still works (also against 7.62). That is not the case in the game, especially for AI.

All performed using US rifleman with Mk16 on maximum difficulty, and I'm really not all that good soldier - too old and slow, but brains still work, which will lead to me taking advantage of knowing how AI thinks and performs. Am I really the only one worried about balance? There is no longer need to choose Mk17 or other 7.62 based weapons, since the shortcomings of 5.56 are no longer felt. I feel like a God, using nothing but 5.56 which is supposed to feel inadequate.

I always thought reduced damage while prone was some sort of abstraction, to counter for lack of hiding at distance (grass not rendered, too good visibility), combined with difficulty to hit due lack of player fear factor. If I was wrong, then, now what? This is a game. It should have challenges. I shouldn't be able to single handedly take on full squads and get away with it, certainly not at max difficulty.

Are everyone else cheering over this? Because I'm not only crying inside, I'm bleeding!

Well, I gotta confirm that the game feels a lot easier now for me with those 'one shot-insta kills' :o

You evolve a kind of 'fire and forget-mentality' in the field and high calibre weapons are nearly obsolete :(

This needs some further balancing for sure...

[.kju 3245]

@ Beagle

Why do you spread urban myth which are not true?

@ @ST/CarlGustaffa

How about some hard data rather some feeling?

According to Suma the velocity to damage fix will only have limited effects on damage levels.

Of course with not longer halving damage for prone will have a major effect - which is very good to see.

[msy 22]

Maybe these bugs can get fixed before 1.60 comes out.

first since OFP:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/18396

or this old bug since OFP

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/3787

or this

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/6365

second:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/17684

third:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23405

fourth:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/19158

Edited October 15, 2011 by msy

[.kju 3245]

Bugs? 5 of the 6 are feature requests.

[ast65 10]

@ @ST/CarlGustaffa

How about some hard data rather some feeling?

What kind of hard data do you need?

It´s obvious in any mission:

Where you had prolonged tactical skirmishes before it´s now a 10 second- wipeout- affair :p

Now it´s just a matter of who´s shooting first and that´s usually the player (if the enemy hasn´t spotted you long time before).

The strong point of ArmA2´s AI was always their tactical behaviour and surely not their fast reactions.

This 'fix' might suit PvP matches but it severely dulls fighting AI in it´s current state.

btw I prefer relying on feelings than on 'hard data' in most cases ;)

Edited October 15, 2011 by @ST

[msy 22]

Bugs? 5 of the 6 are feature requests.

4 of them are AI ISSUES, another one is MODEL ISSUE, the last one is none. Do you mean AI ISSUE is a feature?

[OMAC 254]

I think I have uncovered a problem with this beta involving mission triggers and objectives.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25506

[nyles 11]

Combat feels great! Finally, 5.56mm and equivalent rifles actually matter on mid-range.

Thanks for fixing this Suma!