ARMA 2: OA beta build 85434

[buliwyf 4]

http://www.arma2.com/beta-patch.php

[85429] Fixed: Global event handlers (including onPlayerDisconnected and onMapSingleClick) cleaned when MP debriefing starts (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16261)

[85428] New: Window title includes Host or Admin status when running windowed to make testing with multiple instances easier.

[85424] Fixed: in config parameter initTurn in turrets work again

[85420] Improved: Direct damage is no longer artificaly reduced for lying soldiers (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20441)

[85348] Optimized: Simplified scripting value type storage in savegames.

[85337] Optimized: Unknown targets no longer saved, significantly reducing savegame size.

:rolleyes:

[loyalguard 15]

[85428] New: Window title includes Host or Admin status when running windowed to make testing with multiple instances easier.

This is outstanding! It never ocurred to me to ask for it but I've wanted something like this for years to help with testing.

[-=seany=- 5]

[85420] Improved: Direct damage is no longer artificaly reduced for lying soldiers (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20441)

Should be interesting to see how this works.

Buliwyf: :rolleyes: <- you do know what that smiley means right?

[danil-ch 165]

Is there any chance that this things get some attention?

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/14806#change-89739

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/15899#change-91553

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12540#change-99548

[buliwyf 4]

Should be interesting to see how this works.

Buliwyf: :rolleyes: <- you do know what that smiley means right?

Sure!

[rok 0]

Still getting these script errors in OA campaign 07 Eye of the Typhoon mission.

[nyles 11]

[85420] Improved: Direct damage is no longer artificaly reduced for lying soldiers (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20441)

Fantastic, this will be interesting in regard to long range engagements. Are there any similar rules how dealt out damage is modified? We still have the issue with enemies often taking several hits before going down over distance. http://dev-heaven.net/issues/11479

This latest change might help a lot in the case when distant enemies are also prone, but perhaps there are other modifiers worth looking at, like the examples below?

Hitting enemies in the arm often seems to absorb a lot of damage when aiming at the body. Can shots penetrate through different hit locations or is the first collision the one that defines the damage multiplier? I can understand that hitting only the arm reduces damage, but when the shot pierces the arm and strikes the chest, I would expect more damage to be applied in total.

Hitting weapons often absorbs damage (perhaps even completely?). You can see sparks on the gun in this case. Without any other gameplay effect for this, like the gun breaking when hit, wouldn't it be cleaner to ignore it?

Glancing hits (if they exist?), where you can clearly see the face go bloody in the case of a headshot, but the enemy doesn't die. For the sake of clear readability, headshots should always be lethal, regardless of distance and weapon used in my opinion.

How does weapon damage drop over distance come into this all? Maybe most of the issues we perceive with shooting at enemies over distance where we expect them do drop but they magically don't, come down to too many multipliers and special cases being put on top of each other?

I think hitting stuff is hard enough in ArmA2 already, and that's great, but if I actually score a hit, I expect a rewarding result. :)

Edited October 13, 2011 by Nyles

[metalcraze 290]

[85420] Improved: Direct damage is no longer artificaly reduced for lying soldiers (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20441)

Oh yes. Having artificial reduction made no sense anyway, a lying target is already 20% of a target

We still have the issue with enemies often taking several hits before going down over distance.

Now I imagine it isn't an easy one. Bullets slow down over distance so if a hit happens after some long distance it doesn't necessarily kill a target.

So BIS needs to tread lightly here, otherwise M4s may become instakill weapons at 600m with optics if overdone.

Edited October 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[buliwyf 4]

This MP problem is still not fixed:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16421

Last known working status ...OFP...

:cool:

[maturin 12]

Glancing hits (if they exist?), where you can clearly see the face go bloody in the case of a headshot, but the enemy doesn't die. For the sake of clear readability, headshots should always be lethal, regardless of distance and weapon used in my opinion.

Even with pistols and the helmet hitbox that I am fairly sure exists?

[Beagle 684]

Works well so far, also performance wise. The only thing that does not work so well is playing online, might be due to the differences beetween beta client and non beta server.

Damage handling for prone units is a very good change...that was neeede long time ago. I only hope that the conversation sytem for A2 units and missing russian speech files from A2 get fixed in final.

Another issue I found out to be missing since 1.50 is that windshield glass on HMMWVs won't break anymore from small arms fire like it does in A2.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Beagle

[Nec 10]

I cant connect in multiplayer in Bennys Warfare v0.70 with this beta patch.

It says : "towns initialized wrong..." or something like that.

[Brainbug 10]

sry for OT, but I feel the need to say this for a while now:

Sure!

I'm not so sure, and obviously a lot of other people here are neither (as you have been asked for using that smile a couple of times before).

That smilie is a "Rolleyes"-smilie. When you roll your eyes, you are expressing "Oh my god, this is totally annoying, but instead of becoming verbally aggressive, I lie out of politeness and smile, but roll my eyes as soon as the annyoing person does not obverse me".

In this context, it would mean that you are annoyed by BIS bringing out another improvement and you would rather like to see them stop supporting Arma2. Which does not make sense at all, because then you probably would not look into the beta section of the forum so often.

But from reading your posts I assume that you are honestly interested in new beta patches and the improvements they bring. So this smilie does NOT fit at all, and therefore a lot of people are puzzled by you using it.

If you want to say "I am happy that a new beta patch is out", then the plain "Smile"-smilie would be better: :) or one of these with similar but stronger meaning: :D or or :bounce3:

Now I imagine it isn't an easy one. Bullets slow down over distance so if a hit happens after some long distance it doesn't necessarily kill a target.

So BIS needs to tread lightly here, otherwise M4s may become instakill weapons at 600m with optics if overdone.

But an M110 with 7.62x51 should NOT need 5 (in words FIVE!) headshots at that distance to kill a man, should it? Of course the AI is not so smart that you do much harm if you blast their brain out, but still. :rolleyes:

(here the rolleyes-smilie is appropriate because I AM annoyed.)

[On_Sabbatical 11]

I cant connect in multiplayer in Bennys Warfare v0.70 with this beta patch.

It says : "towns initialized wrong..." or something like that.

You won't because simply it's not compatible,take for example that fix which will allow you to kill prone units,imagine you play with another player having patch 159 first build and you using this beta patch,on your screen you see him dead but for him he is alway alive :D.

[twirly 11]

[85420] Improved: Direct damage is no longer artificaly reduced for lying soldiers

That's great. At 1000 yards a FMJ 308 round will kill. No problems at all.... it's still packing over 500ft-lbs of energy. For a 223 it's about 200ft-lbs at 1000 yards....that will still also kill. Thank you.

Edited October 14, 2011 by twirly

[Alex72 1]

Regarding bullets lose power at distance, check last post by Suma: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/11479

Should be corrected in 85440 (next patch i guess). :)

[metalcraze 290]

Sweet.

[.kju 3245]

@Nyles

You better post in the CIT. In here it will be simply washed away rather to get

noticed/become part of the discussion.

[nyles 11]

I will post feedback on this once we have the new test version with Suma's mentioned change.

Very nice to see progress on this! :)

[Beagle 684]

That's great. At 1000 yards a FMJ 308 round will kill. No problems at all.... it's still packing over 500ft-lbs of energy. For a 223 it's about 200ft-lbs at 1000 yards....that will still also kill. Thank you.

Back in WW II when full caliber rifles were used on regular base not every hit was automatically lethal... so why schould it be today... were people in the 1940's tougher to require "large game" rounds? Also consider that most soldiers in ArmA are considered to wear body protection = have more hitpoints compared to civilians.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Beagle

[nyles 11]

Lethality should be put in context. Of course not every round kills, but most take you effectively out of the fight.

I interpret death in ArmA to include incapacitation and severe wounds that prevent you from fighting.

The issue we are having in the game is the lack of feedback and gameplay consequence for AI actors. Very often there is no acknowledgement by AI that it got hit: They remain standing upright, scan the horizon or otherwise look static and careless. Maybe if there would be proper pain animations, AI going prone or some other feedback that at least gives the player some notification that the hit he just scored matters, the whole issue would be less in your face.

Now since we lack such feedback (and I am not suggesting we add it at this stage), can we get around this by making rounds more deadly? I personally believe this would be the right approach, but of course we also don't want every weapon to become a super sniper rifle. Still, engaging an enemy with a 5.56mm round at 200m should result in a kill most of the time. Right now it very often does not.

So, looking forward to the next build with Suma's potential fix for damage calculation over distance. This might already fix the issue entirely. :)

[metalcraze 290]

Don't most soldiers die from internal traumas and bleeding, not direct bullet shots?

Of course what we have in ArmA is a sensible implementation (as in soldier "dying" after getting shot). You wouldn't lie down unconsious for hours, not being rescued at all maybe.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Maybe BIS AI's are just full of adrenalin that they don't suffer directly from direct+indirect bullet/shell/explosion impact? ;)

Imo the right approach would make the AI "feel" + act shocked and more afraid of incoming fire. Some more+different damage/wound body parts could help + increase the plausibility too.

[Undeceived 392]

The setmimic command unfortunately still is not working for white persons in this beta version (only the death mimic).

All mimics that are possible work for black persons, but I would love to see also a "smile" mimic aside from the already existing ones (which are quite good! :) ).

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I agree on "pain animations" or better visuals of hit and maybe stagger. But most 5.56 shots at 200m be kill shots? Enemy side wears armor too, we're not fighting civilian miltia units, but an armed force.

I fear for the firefight, and we need something that prevents us from hitting. I could swear the recoil has become reduced over time :p In coop we have two problems; players being able to completely outshoot AI, and AI not being good enough at taking cover and/or being sent to their death.

Compared to real life, the number of bullets used to get hits/kills are ridiculously low. I know we can't get all realistic, because the fear factor just isn't there and can't be, and we need something to get it more realistic. It's the guns that kills in wars, not the personal weapons - they're mostly there for your own personal protection.

C'mon, please, give us proper need to do at least breath control for decent aim, practically being all over the place without it. Maybe add worse and longer suppression effects, but also to the AI. When I see blood splatter on AI, then I will now change target, because I know he won't be able to shoot for shit anymore. I want to be able to let a wall of M249 lead count well as means of suppression, over a greater areas, and same applies to human players of course to "force the fear factor".

In war, we are NOT on the range under calm and controlled conditions god dammit! :o

Oh, and btw, should impact energy and damage dealt really be static for every bullet? Shouldn't it be randomly reduced on distance with means of "every bullet hits differently", some bullets may become fatal where most are not (at distance), because they (the one who gets shot) "get lucky"?

Btw2: Thanks for patch :) Tried the last one, and it was very smooth. Love the AI interpolation stuff.

Edited October 14, 2011 by CarlGustaffa