3rd person and crosshair - enable by default in MP?

[PeterBitt 10]

Lol, love the hardcore players term...it always reminds me of porn or DR for that reason...Not that DR is porn, not in a good sense anyways

what is DR? Dragon rising? than i dont understand why "hardcore" reminds you to DR :confused:

actualy hardcore may not be the correct word, iam no hardcore gamer but an experienced ofp/arma/arma2 player. iam not playing the games very often but i feel like iam a loyal customer of BIS games and would like to get at least the same attention as the new players get.

whats the problem with splitting the servers to cadet and veteran servers, where cadet servers have all the helpers activated while veteran servers are forced to not use them?

[PuFu 4600]

what is DR? Dragon rising? than i dont understand why "hardcore" reminds you to DR :confused:

Because of its difficulty settings: regular (or smth alike) and hardcore...

actualy hardcore may not be the correct word, iam no hardcore gamer but an experienced ofp/arma/arma2 player. iam not playing the games very often but i feel like iam a loyal customer of BIS games and would like to get at least the same attention as the new players get.

i guess the term could be veteran then, but we going semantics way.

[jw custom 56]

Well, if those options are deliberately enabled then there's no longer any argument over clueless server admins :) and anyone joining the server must suck it down as their preferred setup.

Exactly as it is now, i prefere crosshair/3rd person off but the only public server i can find playing AAS PvP has crosshair enabled so i just play with it... guess what, it's still fun.

The servers worth playing on(populated and monitored servers) does not have "noob" admins who don't know about the settings.

[dmarkwick 261]

Exactly as it is now, i prefere crosshair/3rd person off but the only public server i can find playing AAS PvP has crosshair enabled so i just play with it... guess what, it's still fun.

The servers worth playing on(populated and monitored servers) does not have "noob" admins who don't know about the settings.

Yes I agree, but the "noob server admin" argument is the most abused one in this whole discussion IMO, so it'd be worth the default setup change just to dispel (or confirm ;)) that.

[nkenny 1057]

I would like simpler options

Recruit-- Every helper enabled.

Veteran-- Most helpers removed -- DEFAULT mode for MP play

Expert-- All helpers removed

For Veteran game mode I would want 3rd person possible and no crosshairs.

Provided animations are good and weapon sights are properly modeled the lack of crosshairs is something you get used to really quick. Making 'Aiming down sights' the best option for making accurate shots also benefits the play-rythm of firefights.

3rd person on the other hand comes very handy when driving vehicles, commanding units, or simply enjoying the scenery.

-k

[jw custom 56]

Yes I agree, but the "noob server admin" argument is the most abused one in this whole discussion IMO

Yes and no, it all started with people wanted 3rd person removed then changed, now we at the "noob" argument :p

so it'd be worth the default setup change just to dispel (or confirm ;)) that.

Sure for all i care it could be disabled by default on all difficulties because it can be enabled just as it can be disabled now unless the admins dunno about the settings and then another group will be making polls about it for ArmA4 :D

With ArmA3 the vehicles hopefully will be fixed so one can drive them without having 3rd person view enabled, so i guess that will make a few more servers(atleast PvP) disable it.

P.S. i wonder how all these "hardcore" players will handle getting killed by a heli crash in Domination because 3rd person view is disabled

[kylania 568]

I never play with the crosshair on, but I voted for crosshairs on because it's trivial for me to turn off the crosshairs on my client or my server. 3rd person should always be on, but again it's trivial to turn off.

Defaults should be baby mode because anyone who doesn't want it should be smart enough to turn it off. New players, who need the mode help, don't always know how to do that. It's elitist and selfish to want to default to helpers turned off.

[onlyrazor 11]

I never play with the crosshair on, but I voted for crosshairs on because it's trivial for me to turn off the crosshairs on my client or my server. 3rd person should always be on, but again it's trivial to turn off.

Defaults should be baby mode because anyone who doesn't want it should be smart enough to turn it off. New players, who need the mode help, don't always know how to do that. It's elitist and selfish to want to default to helpers turned off.

^This.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Defaults should be baby mode

Baby mode belongs in Recruit.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think there is general agreement on the default settings for each game difficulty level be appropriate :)

That is a long way forward from where we were only a month ago :D

[celery 8]

Defaults should be baby mode because anyone who doesn't want it should be smart enough to turn it off. New players, who need the mode help, don't always know how to do that. It's elitist and selfish to want to default to helpers turned off.

To justify a noob mode as the default difficulty, you would need to assume that there will always be more newbies playing the game at any given time during its existence than those who know how to play it, otherwise the defaults will become counterproductive. What happens when the new players realize that they get more out of the game without the helpers? From that point on until they stop playing the game they will have to remember to set the difficulty level to something else than Recruit or Regular, and always prepare for the possibility that the admin didn't bother to do it when joining someone else's server. It's the same as having stabilizer wheels as a default accessory on all bicycles.

Like said before, having a few aids off isn't nearly as detrimental to gameplay as having them on when they result in unfair tactics, so I'm not that worried about new players accidentally leaving Veteran mode on and learning to lower it afterwards.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Celery

[-=seany=- 5]

What happens when the new players realize that they get more out of the game without the helpers?

err when does this happen? I have been playing since OFP and never felt the urge to turn them off. And I have played with it off plenty off times, I can't say I "got more out of the game" though. I have them enabled beacuse I prefer it, as do many people.

They aren't some newbie "helper" game mode, so they can't be compared to stabilizers on a bike..

Like said before, having a few aids off isn't nearly as detrimental to gameplay as having them on when they result in unfair tactics, so I'm not that worried about new players accidentally leaving Veteran mode on and learning to lower it afterwards.

And when servers are running a game mode where having them enabled is "detrimental to gameplay", then the host would set up the difficulty accordingly, no? and if they don't, well that's their choice, it's not because there too stupid to change the settings its beacuse they want it that way...have a little faith.

And if you cant find any servers playing in the way you want to play...well..you know what I'm going to say.

Edited August 29, 2011 by -=seany=-

[ProfTournesol 956]

err when does this happen? I have been playing since OFP and never felt the urge to turn them off.

Neither did I.

[jw custom 56]

Like said before, having a few aids off isn't nearly as detrimental to gameplay as having them on when they result in unfair tactics

Well everybody have the exact same advantages.

[maddogx 13]

Easy solution: The very first time you start the game, a popup window appears.

"Welcome! This is your first time starting Arma3.

Please select the default difficulty level you would like to start with.

(This setting can be changed at any time in the difficulty settings.)"

• Recruit (You're new to Arma.)
  
• Regular (You've a recurring Arma player but prefer average difficulty.)
  
• Veteran (You're a long time Arma player and prefer high difficulty.)
  

Each one should show a small overview of default and forced settings, specifically 3rd person and crosshairs forced off for Veteran.

Btw. I would reduce the number of difficulty levels to 3. Personally I see no reason for Veteran and Expert. Only one should be remain, and it should be considered the hardcore mode, IMO.

[celery 8]

err when does this happen? I have been playing since OFP and never felt the urge to turn them off. And I have played with it off plenty off times, I can't say I "got more out of the game" though. I have them enabled beacuse I prefer it, as do many people.

They aren't some newbie "helper" game mode, so they can't be compared to stabilizers on a bike..

You might not get more out of the game that way, many others do. Here are the default difficulty settings of Arma 2:

http://relay.pp.fi/Gamesave/Arma%202%20Combined%20Operations/Difficulty.html

I consider extended armor, unit tags and automatic map aids to be the equivalent of stabilizers.

And when servers are running a game mode where having them enabled is "detrimental to gameplay", then the host would set up the difficulty accordingly, no? and if they don't, well that's their choice, it's not because there too stupid to change the settings its beacuse they want it that way...have a little faith.

And if you cant find any servers playing in the way you want to play...well..you know what I'm going to say.

There is always the possibility that the admin isn't privy to the adverse effects the difficulty options have on the mission he's hosting or he simply forgot to change the difficulty. OR the server isn't even admin controlled. If he deliberately wants to play with aids on, I don't want to take that joy from him, but I want it to be a conscious choice instead of one that makes achieving the opposite prone to human error and frustration.

Well everybody have the exact same advantages.

That doesn't negate the effect. If everyone does it to balance out what they think their enemy does, the gameplay shifts accordingly toward apathetic corner peeking for a chance to catch the enemy when he's at a disadvantage.

Easy solution: The very first time you start the game, a popup window appears.

How does that affect MP games?

Edited August 29, 2011 by Celery

[maddogx 13]

How does that affect MP games?

People were discussing which difficulty setting should be the default one. I made a suggestion to make it optional. :)

As for dedi servers, where such a popup window would not appear, I say make the default difficulty veteran.

[jw custom 56]

That doesn't negate the effect. If everyone does it to balance out what they think their enemy does, the gameplay shifts accordingly toward apathetic corner peeking for a chance to catch the enemy when he's at a disadvantage.

Still everybody have the exact same advantage which was the point, you made it sound like only some people had an advantage.

But lets just blame the admins for being lazy, dumb or new to the game which is why crosshair/3rd person view is enabled :rolleyes:

[dmarkwick 261]

I suggest only 3 game modes. Keep it simple. Recruit, normal, and veteran. Recruit = everything on, veteran = everything off, normal = some hotly debated & bitterly contested mix of features ;)

But, each mode can be edited as currently implemented.

[Spartan 163 0]

Teams that use Vent or Ts3 have an advantage over those that don't and play PvP. The people with better view distance or higher detail setting (or lower) have an advantage also. Trying to make it all even will never happen. Almost to it is the best you can hope for.

[kernriver 4]

I suggest only 3 game modes. Keep it simple. Recruit, normal, and veteran. Recruit = everything on, veteran = everything off, normal = some hotly debated & bitterly contested mix of features ;)

But, each mode can be edited as currently implemented.

Agreed. It could be something like this:

Recruit: all "helpers" ON

Normal: 3rd/crosshair OFF, map helpers* ON

Veteran: all "helpers" OFF

*waypoints, players markers, etc.

This could be by default, but editable (except maybe AI skill/precision settings).

That way you could have Recruit mode without 3rd/crosshair, but with less skilled AI.

Or, Veteran mode with 3rd/crosshair, but with highly skilled AI.

EDIT: Of course, this is for coop, it could be something similar for PVP.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Kernriver

[maddogx 13]

I believe it should be:

Recruit/Easy

• Map helpers: Default on
  
• 3rdPOV, Crosshairs: Default on
  
• AI difficulty: Default easy, optional
  

Regular/Normal

• Map helpers: Default off, optional
  
• 3rdPOV, Crosshairs: Default off, optional
  
• AI difficulty: Default normal, optional
  

Veteran/Hardcore

• Map helpers: Off
  
• 3rdPOV, Crosshairs: Off
  
• AI difficulty: Hard
  

I think it would make sense to have veteran actually be what it says, not just a name for a harder set of defaults that can basically be changed back to regular. As they say in Germany (paraphrased): "If it says 'Veteran' on the box, there should be 'Veteran' inside."

Anyone wanting the full range of options can simply play regular.

Edited August 30, 2011 by MadDogX

[dmarkwick 261]

Hmm, more general agreement :)

My more detailed suggestions:

Recruit/Easy

• Map helpers: Default on
  
• Waypoint helpers: Default on
  
• Tags/identifiers: Default on
  
• Crosshairs: Default on
  
• 3rdPOV: Default on
  
• AI difficulty: Default easy, optional
  
• Peripheral blobs: Default coloured
  

Regular/Normal

• Map helpers: Partial on, optional
  
• Waypoint helpers: Default on
  
• Tags/identifiers: Default on
  
• Crosshairs: Default on
  
• 3rdPOV: Default off, optional
  
• AI difficulty: Default hard, optional
  
• Peripheral blobs: Default uncoloured
  

Veteran/Hardcore

• Map helpers: Off
  
• Waypoint helpers: Default off
  
• Tags/identifiers: Default off
  
• Crosshairs: Default off, optional
  
• 3rdPOV: Off
  
• AI difficulty: Hard
  
• Peripheral blobs: Default uncoloured
  

Edited August 30, 2011 by DMarkwick

[NoRailgunner 0]

Would say BIS could make presets like: Recruit/Easy, Regular/Normal, Veteran/Hardcore and add Freestyle/Custom (all options available).

It would be great if players could see all activated options before joining eg with icons or on a infoscreen.

[dmarkwick 261]

Freestyle/custom isn't necessary because they're all customisable anyway. They're only presets.