3rd person and crosshair - enable by default in MP?

[celery 8]

Currently the default difficulty level when you're choosing a mission on a server is Regular. Regular has both 3rd person and crosshair enabled, making it unsuitable for pvp game modes and, in general, players who want to keep things realistic. However, even when setting difficulty to Veteran, 3rd person and crosshair are still enabled if the server's config hasn't been tweaked. That leaves us with Expert, but both 3rd person and crosshair are disabled there, along with killed messages, score board and VON IDs.

This means that we simply cannot take any given server and start playing a normal pvp game or a coop where gameplay realism is high but useful information is unhidden. Even if there was a custom difficulty config, chances are that the realistic settings are on Veteran and there's always a chance that the admin forgets to switch to it. Do you think that these defaults concerning 3rd person and crosshair should persist to Arma 3, or should there be a change?

You can also post a more complete list of your desired default difficulty settings.

There's also the aspect of allowing the admin to change the difficulty options individually, but this thread is about the factory defaults. :)

[metalcraze 290]

Neither 3rd person nor crosshair.

The gaming must be fair.

Here's my points why the default options should be so.

First - obviously with 3rd person you can see behind walls without exposing yourself. I also would want an option that disables tactical view for commanders (I never use it myself when commanding because it's even more of a massive cheat in MP than 3rd person). Alternatively BIS may not render soldiers your squad doesn't know about yet when in tactical command mode.

Second - crosshairs provide for a nice cheat with the First Aid module. When a soldier lies in agony he still is perfectly capable of killing anything thanks to crosshairs which makes agony state lose a lot of gameplay sense.

Among other things.

[purepassion 22]

Keep in mind, this would scare off a lot of new people that give arma a new try with Arma 3

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Why would it scare anyone? If they're already used to action shooters, 3rd person are typically not allowed, and no crosshairs in hardcore modes (our distances tend to be larger, with less CQB, so that makes sense too). Exceptions for infantry 3rd are special 3rd person game modes (CoD), exploited control glitches (OFP2), or special devmode (Crysis or Farcry stuff), iirc.

The inview cues that is enforced in Recruit (the blobby color markers), should probably be customizable also for recruit (but still forced off in all others). I'm currently trying to setup a major revision, with new difficulty in, and suggestion to remove some (replaced with new features), and added expected TAKOH related difficulties. Will take a while though.

Edited August 27, 2011 by CarlGustaffa

[metalcraze 290]

There is a recruit mode for recruits. And regular.

Veteran isn't something you call a newbie

[dmarkwick 261]

I voted no 3rd person, crosshairs enabled. 3rd person has been rather discussed to death :) and I guess I've made my views on that known. However I acknowledge the MP need to not use it for fairness reasons.

crosshairs provide for a nice cheat with the First Aid module. When a soldier lies in agony he still is perfectly capable of killing anything thanks to crosshairs which makes agony state lose a lot of gameplay sense.

The medic module thing sounds more like a problem with the medic module rather than the crosshair, so that should be fixed rather than losing the crosshair because of that.

I voted crosshairs because I just think they add in some sense of 3D orientation that is missing, the weapon is never "from the hip" in ArmA, it is always shouldered or pointing down.

I don't believe crosshair is any more accurate than ironsights, but, I would be happy to lose that little dot within the two markers.

Edited August 27, 2011 by DMarkwick

[metalcraze 290]

There shouldn't be crosshair, just a barely noticeable semitransparent wide circle which will show the general direction the weapon is pointing in case you have a problem with orientation with crosshair off. Will be very close to simulating how it's in real life (in awareness terms)

That way you won't be able to pop heads like with a crosshair from 100+ m away but still will perfectly capable of doing just that in CQB

[nuxil 2]

hey.. add in a option. i dont care as long as i can change this in the server.cfg

[jw custom 56]

Does it really matters as long as it's optional :confused:

[smookie 11]

I am all for this idea. A mode where 3rd person is turned off and crosshair is enabled will stand as a base for PvP / competitive gaming scene and I will try to lobby that. :)

[celery 8]

hey.. add in a option. i dont care as long as i can change this in the server.cfg

Does it really matters as long as it's optional :confused:

The difference is what I explained in the first post: because we have 3 out of 4 difficulty levels with both 3rd and crosshair enabled by default, games with 3rd and crosshair enabled are exactly what we are going to see, because a) server owner might not be aware of config matters, b) admin doesn't realize or care about the difference, c) admin doesn't remember to switch difficulty and d) the only difficulty level with 3rd and crosshair off by default also has VON IDs, kill messages and score board disabled.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Celery

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@metalcraze:

I've tried circles, squares, and diamonds (usual cross layout used in other games) - they are all too easy to interpolate a too accurate center from, in too short time. A full shape (vs only dots or edges shown) I feel is also very intrusive on the screen.

What I came up with is this, where size depends on infantry weapons dexterity value. Consider the first one an M107 or M240, and the bottom one what you would get for an MP5. Rectangular in shape, with ticks at 45° or less make them point not toward the middle, tricking the mind making interpolation difficult:

\                                /






/                                \

          \          /


          /          \

If I could have this, combined with possibility to completely turn it off for myself, I would have no objections to crosshairs. Also, no center tick obviously, but vehicles can still have what they have today - accurate crosshairs. M134 and other faster-than-the-engine-can-currently-handle-guns are sometimes supposed to be aim-by-tracer, and in air vehicles the advantage is minimal regardless.

I don't believe crosshair is any more accurate than ironsights, but, I would be happy to lose that little dot within the two markers.

No they aren't more accurate, but they do allow you to position your gun "precisely" on target before going into scope. Zero time spent on target, pluss makes heavy guns suitable for CQB. Also the grass vs AI cheat (when used with 3rd) I've mentioned before, and the agony cheat - me no like :p

Edited August 27, 2011 by CarlGustaffa

[dmarkwick 261]

Well IMO the two little markers are already fine. They're not as accurate as ironsights, but are accurate enough to represent a shouldered rifle. I would be happy to see some random variation between it and the absolute weapon direction though, rather than any of the above wider markers.

[Spartan 163 0]

Lol i have seen "hard core" pvp players say they don't use crosshairs in Arma so they act all elite when they win but all they realy do is marks the center of their monitors with a dry erase pen or some tape. There are ways around everything.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Easily avoided with a forced small amount of floating zone. If they wanted to. I'm against full OFP floating zone though. But I have it defined to something small but non zero for myself.

[froggyluv 2130]

NO cross/No 3rd.

I hate crosshairs with a passion in any game - l2aim!

Flame on!

:p

Seriously tho, I prefer playing without either of those and to me no crosshair better suits Arma's flirt with Mil-Sim genre label as opposed to mouse wars of the transposed magic sights!

That we have these options is most important so all can play their way (no matter wrong that is!) but if given the choice: off by default.

[Spartan 163 0]

NO cross/No 3rd.

I hate crosshairs with a passion in any game - l2aim!

Flame on!

:p

Seriously tho, I prefer playing without either of those and to me no crosshair better suits Arma's flirt with Mil-Sim genre label as opposed to mouse wars of the transposed magic sights!

That we have these options is most important so all can play their way (no matter wrong that is!) but if given the choice: off by default.

Totaly agree. As long as the option is there everyone is happy.

[jw custom 56]

The difference is what I explained in the first post: because we have 3 out of 4 difficulty levels with both 3rd and crosshair enabled by default, games with 3rd and crosshair enabled are exactly what we are going to see, because a) server owner might not be aware of config matters, b) admin doesn't realize or care about the difference, c) admin doesn't remember to switch difficulty and d) the only difficulty level with 3rd and crosshair off by default also has VON IDs, kill messages and score board disabled.

Those points a,b,c & d is only a issue for completely new server owners, it's not like we have 1000 random servers with people who knows nothing about arma.

If a patch for ArmA2 was released and set 3rd/crosshair off by default i doub't it would change much. There's simply quite a few people who like playing with crosshair on, and 3rd person view though i think that mostly has to do with driving vehicles.

Easily avoided with a forced small amount of floating zone. If they wanted to. I'm against full OFP floating zone though. But I have it defined to something small but non zero for myself.

Here we go again, let's force players into playing a certain way.

Edited August 27, 2011 by JW Custom

[Tonci87 163]

Arma is a FPS by definition, because of that the first person view should be default. Arma is also kind of realistic. People should aim with their sights instead with some floating aiming device. I think some people here would enjoy playing GTA4 instead of ARMA

[*LK1* 10]

Does it really matters as long as it's optional :confused:

:rolleyes: :(

voted for option 4.

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

Arma is a FPS by definition, because of that the first person view should be default. Arma is also kind of realistic. People should aim with their sights instead with some floating aiming device. I think some people here would enjoy playing GTA4 instead of ARMA

*** uh oh.

[jw custom 56]

People should aim with their sights instead with some floating aiming device.

Just because you prefere playing that way doesn't mean everybody else should.

[Tonci87 163]

Just because you prefere playing that way doesn't mean everybody else should.

Thats not the point. Arma by definition isn't a 3rd person shooter with crosshairs, so those things shouldn't be enabled by default

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Here we go again, let's force players into playing a certain way.

Uhm, what? How would that any different from any other difficulty setting? You realize there are people selling "crosshair cheat tools"? We have competitive communities too, don't we? They most likely don't play with crosshairs to get that "realism sensation", only to end up with cheats they can't prevent.

Getting more and more amazed at how my ideas tend to suck - oh well... :j:

[jw custom 56]

Uhm, what? How would that any different from any other difficulty setting?

Well the word force, but i guess you mean as a server setting.

People think that setting stuff disabled as default magically makes people not wanna play without crosshair/3rd person view.

Thats not the point. Arma by definition isn't a 3rd person shooter with crosshairs, so those things shouldn't be enabled by default

Thats some peoples definition, not everybodys.

Edited August 27, 2011 by JW Custom

[Spartan 163 0]

Found a solution for this. Op and those that agree should make an addon that will do this and then post it so others who like it can download it.

Problem solved.