Development Blog & Reveals

[NeuroFunker 11]

shitty menu? Guess what would happen, if BIS had changed menu? 100x "the menu is dumbed down" threads...

[bad benson 1733]

yea and there are obviously only those two options. leaving it like it is and dumbing it down :rolleyes: why do i even reply to this shit...

i guess you need to have the status of someone like dyslexci now "be allowed" to point out obvious flaws.

[dale0404 5]

as has been stated many many times before. mods are only a solution for singleplayer. there is no mod that is allowed on all or most servers...

Mods are not a solution for SP, they are used widely on MP servers as well. Which mods, well that is a different question...

[NeuroFunker 11]

yea and there are obviously only those two options. leaving it like it is and dumbing it down :rolleyes: why do i even reply to this shit...

i guess you need to have the status of someone like dyslexci now "be allowed" to point out obvious flaws.

huh, umad?

[bad benson 1733]

Mods are not a solution for SP, they are used widely on MP servers as well. Which mods, well that is a different question...

exactly my point. have you tried to join a public server with mods lately?

so let me get this straight. the fact that there are several mods in the works that totally rework the action menu and also others for the command menu and that people celebrate them as "very much needed" is irrelevant i guess? the problem is not that the UI is impossible to use. it's the fact that it's still the same and not improved over several games. those are the reasons why now those mods pop up. people are tired of it.

i had no problem with it in ofp and arma 1. in arma 2 i thought "ok now. next time shouldn't be too much to ask".

i find it inappropriate to call a reviewer, who just does his job, retarded. people should get a grip. it's getting ridiculous...

huh, umad?

you must be the the person with the most useless posts proportional to post count and join date. consider yourself ignored.

EDIT: let's not start another useless episode though. i was just reacting to this nonsense trying to offer a more balanced perspective than "this guy is a retard". that's all.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Bad Benson
grammar

[Ezcoo 47]

yea and there are obviously only those two options. leaving it like it is and dumbing it down :rolleyes: why do i even reply to this shit...

i guess you need to have the status of someone like dyslexci now "be allowed" to point out obvious flaws.

I agree. There are also other solutions to the problem, for example proper instructions and tips how to use the UI and what the selections actually do. That way you could avoid dumbing the UI down (which doesn't mean keeping it unintuitive) and still help the new players to become familiar to the game.

For example, there could be a "newbie" mode that could be totally dependent on the user settings (not controllable by eg. server or mission - why should it?), that would show a hint about every action that the user points. For example, going to "Stance" menu and having the "Crouch" mode selected would show a hint about "crouch" mode like this: "When you set your AI to crouch, they'll stay crouched when they are not prone. When crouched instead of standing, they're smaller targets to the enemy and thus also more difficult to spot, their aim is more accurate and they can handle the recoil of their guns better than when standing. On the other hand, moving crouched is heavy compared to running or walking normally, which makes them exhausted relatively quickly when they move. Being exhausted makes their aiming worse and their movement slower. It's generally recommended to use crouch mode when the probability of enemy contact is high and you're moving, but it's not the best option if you have to move long distances."

Edited September 23, 2013 by Ezcoo

[Smurf 12]

General UI is a major flaw in every Arma game but the Command and Action menu combo is probably the worst thing!

Without any tutorial (don't ever expect that anyone would read the Field Manual at first!) on anything, from movement to commanding, of course people will say it is hard to play to game.

[antoineflemming 14]

Mods are not a solution for SP, they are used widely on MP servers as well. Which mods, well that is a different question...

Well mods are not a solution. They don't fix the problem. They really patch up, or better yet, cover up, the problem. With MP, so many varying mods are used on different servers that no one mod is guaranteed to be allowed on all servers.

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

i find it inappropriate to call a reviewer, who just does his job, retarded. people should get a grip. it's getting ridiculous...

It's the idea that anyone who says anything negative about BIS or Arma 3 is "retarded". Really ties back to the whole "If you complain, then you're a whiner/COD fan/hater" and it even connects to this notion of mods being answer to Arma 3's faults. It's as if people feel like they have to justify every fault with the game in order to not look like they aren't an Arma fan. The UI definitely has problems, as do other aspects of the game. I agree with most everything you've said.

[Deadfast 43]

Please remember that if you have a problem with a post you should use the report button. Do not hijack the thread and start insulting right back. You know who you are ;).

[Smurf 12]

Well mods are not a solution. They don't fix the problem. They really patch up, or better yet, cover up, the problem. With MP, so many varying mods are used on different servers that no one mod is guaranteed to be allowed on all servers.

Yep, and at that point the "band-aid" starts to become another issue that is fixed with.... another band-aid!

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I agree. There are also other solutions to the problem, for example proper instructions and tips how to use the UI and what the selections actually do. That way you could avoid dumbing the UI down (which doesn't mean keeping it unintuitive) and still help the new players to become familiar to the game.

For example, there could be a "newbie" mode that could be totally dependent on the user settings (not controllable by eg. server or mission - why should it?), that would show a hint about every action that the user points. For example, going to "Stance" menu and having the "Crouch" mode selected would show a hint about "crouch" mode like this: "When you set your AI to crouch, they'll stay crouched when they are not prone. When crouched instead of standing, they're smaller targets to the enemy and thus also more difficult to spot, their aim is more accurate and they can handle the recoil of their guns better than when standing. On the other hand, moving crouched is heavy compared to running or walking normally, which makes them exhausted relatively quickly when they move. Being exhausted makes their aiming worse and their movement slower. It's generally recommended to use crouch mode when the probability of enemy contact is high and you're moving, but it's not the best option if you have to move long distances."

I don't think the UI could ever be "dumbed down". UI elements work or they don't. The less you are thinking about the UI, usually the more "fluid" experience you are having. Making the UI "transparent" does not mean the gameplay itself has to deviate from the "relative realism" we take for granted from Arma games.

You see this nowadays a lot, a lot of the interface elements are becoming in-world things while the developers are trying to figure out the best way to communicate the information you need without having to slap a line of text "YOU ARE THIS VISIBLE TO THE ENEMY". They plant a "stealth light" on your character, you have a health meter spine, guns with round count displays, interface elements overlaid as if being projected on your visor, maps that are in-world items instead of UI overlays, objectives being projected onto the environment to simulate Augmented Reality, removal of UI crosshairs in favor of laser pointers, etc. It's being experimented with a lot.

There's even an example from the community here, since OFP times, many have went to great lengths to set up and use voice control for group control to avoid using the command menu, because it feels more natural and less "interfacey"

The UI in Arma isn't "smart" to be dumbed down, it's just unwieldy and intrusive and needs to be made less so. And this can be done without loosing any control, freedom or extensibility. The problem is, no serious effort has been made.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Smurf 12]

Excellent post.

[Pomi Git 256]

The less you are thinking about the UI, usually the more "fluid" experience you are having. Making the UI "transparent" does not mean the gameplay itself has to deviate from the "relative realism" we take for granted from Arma games.

Agree with this 100%, its all about a positive and natural user experience. UI is one aspect of this, another is how the user interacts.

I think its also important to acknowledge the influence of previous experience. I remember the first time I played Operation Flashpoint and how overwhelmed I was by the many controls, particularly the squad menu. Now I know most by memory.

At the end of the day ARMA is not an arcade game, its a lot more complicated by the nature of what it is, a military simulator. You need all the many controls and options to provide the kind of flexibility required. That's not to say there aren't many improvements that can be made and Id like to see the most fundamental controls much more readily accessible and intuitive to use.

[Ezcoo 47]

I don't think the UI could ever be "dumbed down". UI elements work or they don't. The less you are thinking about the UI, usually the more "fluid" experience you are having. Making the UI "transparent" does not mean the gameplay itself has to deviate from the "relative realism" we take for granted from Arma games.

You see this nowadays a lot, a lot of the interface elements are becoming in-world things while the developers are trying to figure out the best way to communicate the information you need without having to slap a line of text "YOU ARE THIS VISIBLE TO THE ENEMY". They plant a "stealth light" on your character, you have a health meter spine, guns with round count displays, interface elements overlaid as if being projected on your visor, maps that are in-world items instead of UI overlays, objectives being projected onto the environment to simulate Augmented Reality, removal of UI crosshairs in favor of laser pointers, etc. It's being experimented with a lot.

There's even an example from the community here, since OFP times, many have went to great lengths to set up and use voice control for group control to avoid using the command menu, because it feels more natural and less "interfacey"

The UI in Arma isn't "smart" to be dumbed down, it's just unwieldy and intrusive and needs to be made less so. And this can be done without loosing any control, freedom or extensibility. The problem is, no serious effort has been made.

I agree. I also like it that the interface elements are being moved to the in-world things. Maybe even squad UI could be in-world element (like a "command" tablet), but I still prefer a basic, "old school" UI myself. I'd also like to see the squad UI to be more intuitive and unintrusive, eg. I'd like to use the well-known

with submenus. It has its issues, but I find it intuitive, fast and easy to use.

The point in my previous post was that "dumbing down" the UI is not the only option (maybe even not an option at all). It was not directly related to the intuitiveness of the UI, but rather that by having some kind of newbie mode on you could make the unnecessarily long learning curve shorter without sacrificing the powerful, but not-very-easy-to-use squad UI. It's not very clear for everyone what the different things in the squad UI actually do (and more importantly, how do they affect to things) and if we don't touch (dumb down) the functionality itself, it should be explained to the user so that he could take advantage of it. For example the formations; it's not that easy for everyone to figure out which one you should select in different situations so the usage of them could be explained in the "newbie mode". It doesn't affect the more experienced players in any way, so I don't see any problem in it.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Ezcoo

[Smurf 12]

The amount of control you have over your squad is really nice but the game would benefit from a more simple one that covers only the most used commands, having the complete one as an option.

Anyone here played SWAT 4? I bet most did it (and if you didn't, DO IT RIGHT NOW!), so what was your thoughts on controlling your team? I can tell it was quite easy from the get go and didn't had many problems on the long run. (SMART!) Context sensitive menus with clear information and easy to understand (colors!) and despite being quite big sometimes (also, PiP on that picture) it wasn't a struggle to use it. Sure, Arma is far more complex but you don't use that complexity very often, even less in combat situations.

As for the action menu, this is a leap forward: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161146-KEYS-No-action-menu

Arma can do better and shouldn't be a matter of mods or DIY. Long overdue revamp.

[hikarum 1]

The amount of control you have over your squad is really nice but the game would benefit from a more simple one that covers only the most used commands, having the complete one as an option.

Anyone here played SWAT 4? I bet most did it (and if you didn't, DO IT RIGHT NOW!), so what was your thoughts on controlling your team? I can tell it was quite easy from the get go and didn't had many problems on the long run. (SMART!) Context sensitive menus with clear information and easy to understand (colors!) and despite being quite big sometimes (also, PiP on that picture) it wasn't a struggle to use it. Sure, Arma is far more complex but you don't use that complexity very often, even less in combat situations.

I would appreciate a secondary SWAT4 style "quick action" menu, especially if we could customize it with commands we use often. (could also have a base configuration for it).

For example, one person could have it so that the "quick action" menu displays only vehicle related commands "manual fire/Eject/Get Out/autohover/Command Fire/etc", while another person could have "danger/alert/safe/Next target/Cancel Target/etc" as their profile.

[xendance 3]

Why are you people discussing about these things in this thread? I thought this was reserved for dev blog posts >_>

[antoineflemming 14]

Why are you people discussing about these things in this thread? I thought this was reserved for dev blog posts >_>

Well, the dev blogs aren't what they were when this thread was started (use to be a place for Arma 3 reveals, now it's just developer profiles). Honestly there's no longer any point to this thread since they stopped doing their former devblogs. The old ones were better, though, as they revealed stuff. I mean, if they were still doing those, we might have some hints or small reveals of what's going to be in the campaign, story-wise or content wise, etc (hint hint devs).

[Undeceived 392]

What about the sitreps? :)

[Smurf 12]

With some many divisions on the forum, those huge threads with an unclear subject, cross posting, the feedback tracker, no wonder there discussions and valuable suggestions spread all over the place and burried as quickly as they come.

[antoineflemming 14]

What about the sitreps? :)

It's not like the old dev blogs though. Report In! articles are closer, but still currently more like developer profiles. Mainly I just want like little reveals along the way. Screenshots here and there (even the small trolling ones), really it'd just be nice to have another ARG or something. Weekly reveals of something, maybe even in connection with the campaign.

Edited September 24, 2013 by antoineflemming

[chortles 263]

I would appreciate a secondary SWAT4 style "quick action" menu, especially if we could customize it with commands we use often. (could also have a base configuration for it).

For example, one person could have it so that the "quick action" menu displays only vehicle related commands "manual fire/Eject/Get Out/autohover/Command Fire/etc", while another person could have "danger/alert/safe/Next target/Cancel Target/etc" as their profile.

Re: customizable "quick action"... are you suggesting something akin to Assassin's Creed? The main issue that comes to mind would be that AC's "quick select" only applies for equipment/weapons for personal combat (i.e. not in certain "side missions" such as ACB's War Machines or AC3's naval missions), while its perfunctory "unit command" is barely that -- tap to order your group against the target, and in AC3 hold to bring up a screen (pausing the action) where one can select what the tap does.

In the case of Arma, the unit command system exists irrespective of group composition or size and on top of that we have the complexity of maintaining the ability to select individual group members for specific commands, whereas many "squad-based shooter" command menu UIs are with the assumption of a fire team and attached support -- so we'd probably end up needing to set quick-action commands for each situation/context.

[bad benson 1733]

i think the idea is more like a simplified version of the command menu with the most important and basic stuff to make frequently used stuff more intuitive and less buried inside the list of words we have now. things like stance, formation and combat mode could be handled with symbols instead of a menu with submenus where the main menu currently changes its appearance depending on context which creates the need to know everything, that is hidden by these context options, by heart.

the current menu could remain while you have the command rose that only covers move, stance and combat mode while the cursor stays as context sensitive as it is now (for targets). infact, the context functionality could be improved a lot. things like possible actions (action menu stuff) shouldn't be in a cluttered list. they should be accessible in a separate list that shows up at an object (actual screen position) when you point at it and only show the actions for that object.

it's basically the same stuff that is problematic about the action menu. bad management of priorities and unappealing unintuitive GUI. too much stuff is in the foreground that shouldn't be there since it's barely used and shouldn't be treated like frequent stuff like opening a door. the system just needs cleaning up some better visuals and more intelligent context sensitivity.

[hikarum 1]

i think the idea is more like a simplified version of the command menu with the most important and basic stuff to make frequently used stuff more intuitive and less buried inside the list of words we have now. things like stance, formation and combat mode could be handled with symbols instead of a menu with submenus where the main menu currently changes its appearance depending on context which creates the need to know everything, that is hidden by these context options, by heart.

Basically this.

[gammadust 12]

^^ +1