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LOL all this crying... Most of you bought this pretty much AAA quality game for half a price, which has got nice improvements over the development cycle. And don't tell me 60 € games are in better quality.

Now, since Arma 3 is pretty nicely shaped up and have potential to get high reviews, releasing this without campaign is some what problematic and will affect review scores for some of the reviewers. Reviews are pretty much based on SP content and they are first version of the game 1.0 and most of the reviewers wont care if there is tons of patches later, they will submit score and will not change it and this will affect game in long run.

Campaign is actually quite important, because many people and reviewers will use this to present game quality. Of course releasing it half baked, bugs, short QA time, AI problems is not good as well and will also affect score. I think best would be to delay game. Since there is beta out already and Arma 3 is top 10 sellers list every day I see no problem to rush with final release. Of course I don't know BIS situation and they expenses etc but I don't know, delaying seems reasonable to me.

I would like that Arma 3 getting good review scores what it deserves and to achieve that there is no point to hurry/rush since there is already playable version out...

Just my thoughts :)

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All I know is Moricky was working on the campaign and has made amazing campaigns before, but if he's pushing that off to make the amazing changes to the editor that he's been doing consistently throughout Alpha and Beta I'm all for waiting for that to finish before getting the storyline. :)

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So I guess I shouldn't care too because you don't care or what's the point you are trying to make?

I bet there's a fanboy excuse for this too.

Fanboys against raging bull(ie)s?

Really, if you'd hate BI and the game, as one could assume from your messages, why did you buy it then?

Oh yes, I remember, you were misled.

Well, few bucks here and there, sometimes these things happen.

Now you can remove the game and lick your wounds.

But you won't. You're a fan somehow after all?

I've had my share of disappointments and frustrations from OPF to Arma 3, have complained about some bugs and features on the forum. I mostly understand why there are bugs and some things do not work or why some features are missing.

But never have I felt misled or cheated, I've had numerous hours of great entertainment. I still feel I've got a lot more value for money than with many other, even almost flawlessly polished games, and I have no doubt that I will feel the same with Arma 3.

Saying that does not make anyone a naive all-accepting fanboy. Sure I'm a fan, but a realist too.

Edited by Azzur33

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1. I would like to point out that the people who opted into the Alpha and Beta phases were doing it willingly and I'm sure they took into consideration the risks that come with a game that is still WIP and which was delayed, such as the removal of features or game content.

This is pretty much the same excuse EA gave people when they axed SimCity to hell. Look at where it is now and where that leaves EA. Worst Company in America trophy, 2 years running.

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Also, isn't the campaign meant to be used as a learning tool for new players to Arma? That's going to be a little difficult now.

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So will the people who pre-ordered on the basis of having a singleplayer campaign to play be eligible for a refund?

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So will the people who pre-ordered on the basis of having a singleplayer campaign to play be eligible for a refund?

Was waiting for the first person to say that lol. Answer: NO.

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Maybe they should delay the release date and release it as soon as campaign will be done.

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Also, isn't the campaign meant to be used as a learning tool for new players to Arma? That's going to be a little difficult now.

I assume that we are still getting the individual training scenarios.

So will the people who pre-ordered on the basis of having a singleplayer campaign to play be eligible for a refund?

You will have a SP campaign to play, but not on release. As for the refund, you would have to go through steam for that.

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Actually ArmA3 terrains are a lot less detailed than ArmA2 Chernarus.

"Massive cities"? Where? There's nothing but microscopic villages on Altis.

I have been bashing BIS because of this announcement (and right so) but don't pull stuff out of the air when you actually have no proof. Have you played on Altis?

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Really, if you'd hate BI and the game, as one could assume from your messages, why did you buy it then?

Oh yes, I remember, you were misled.

Well, few bucks here and there, sometimes these things happen.

Now you can remove the game and lick your wounds.

But you won't. You're a fan somehow after all?

Well until 1.0 I have some, albeit dwindling with each day, hope that BIS will revert some of the most critical simplifying at least.

And yeah I've learned my lesson. I will not spend a single penny on any new BIS release until it comes out and ends up being a proper ArmA sequel, not this.

I've had my share of disappointments and frustrations from OPF to Arma 3, have complained about some bugs and features on the forum. I mostly understand why there are bugs and some things do not work or why some features are missing.

But never have I felt misled or cheated, I've had numerous hours of great entertainment. I still feel I've got a lot more value for money than with many other, even almost flawlessly polished games, and I have no doubt that I will feel the same with Arma 3.

ArmA1 was a disappointment for me, but ArmA2 was a clear improvement since BIS delivered a lot of what they promised and it was a big step up in every way.

ArmA3 is a huge leap back compared. Or rather leap into another direction catering to an arcade shooter player first and foremost. If ArmA2 had some features that could've been called remotely realistic, ArmA3 has none.

Saying that does not make anyone a naive all-excepting fanboy. Sure I'm a fan, but a realist too.

Being a realist is not defending BIS for misleading promises, lack of communication and releasing a game with a chunk of stuff missing that may or may not be added after release.

Because there are facts like BIS not releasing a patch for ACR (a DLC that itself is a very lazy job) for a year now. Meaning that nowadays BIS has absolutely no problem releasing broken and buggy content for money and not fixing it.

Edited by metalcraze

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I think it would be better for BIS, PR-wise, to delay the official release of the game and until then, release the entire content of the game(maybe including the campaign, even if funky) into the beta. (Or label it as release candidate and increase the price)

This way, players who don't care about the campaign and want to experience the rest of the game could do so, and reviewers/people who are solely interested in the singleplayer would wait.

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I think this whole campaign thingy is just the top of the iceberg for many of us. It's the fourth time in a row (OFP: CWC, A1, A2, A3) of having an unfinished release version. 4 years ago I played the ArmA 2 Beta while being part of the german support team. It was a disaster and the game was pretty much in the same bad shape as the ArmA 3 Beta is now. Be realistic, every ArmA title at least required one year more time of development. ArmA 1 was playable after patch 1.08, ArmA 2 was playable after patch 1.05 ... I expect the same pattern for ArmA 3.

Anyone still remembering the promissed elevators for ArmA 1? :)

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Better to stay in Beta, surely?

Surely this. And if it isn't can we at least get a honest answer as to why not please?

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Surely this. And if it isn't can we at least get a honest answer as to why not please?

This may well end up being what happens, there's nothing on the official site that I can see. Calm down people! If you end up spewing this vitriol for a simple delay you'll look pretty silly.

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"Massive cities"? Where? There's nothing but microscopic villages on Altis.

Actually, the Capital of the real island Lemnos is about 80km^2 big. Scale that down to 75% and you'll get 60km^2. I would describe that as massive for a game.

And yet there's absolutely no difference to fatigue whether you run around naked or carry half a dozen rockets and a .50 cal sniper rifle. And you can run around forever. There's not a single fatigue effect providing a real downside.

I just tested it. With Sniper rifle + Rocket Launcher my character stopped sprinting after 16 seconds. In underpants it took him around 45 seconds until he stopped sprinting.

For some reason people forget that jogging in ArmA3 is equal in speed to sprinting in BF3 but you can't do that forever in BF3. You need transport.

I'm not quite sure what you mean? You can sprint for ever in Battlefield 3...

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Meh, no Campaign doesn't really matter to me personally. Funny, I read so many old heads here say they never touch the official content anyways but now it's fire and brimstone. The fact that they are working on AI on a daily basis and keep a very live feedback with us on that is FAR more important to me and probably a big reason why they need to delay the campaign -they have no idea how it'll play out if AI is still in surgery! Better than , no new AI calibrating as it may break our official campaign -THAT would be a kick in the nutsack for me.

Whether they call it "extended Beta" or Full Release (minus Campaign) is semantics and makes little difference in the actual timeline we get to have our grubby hands on a Campaign. I'm pumped for Altis/fighters/tanks and new civvies :)

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...I just tested it. With Sniper rifle + Rocket Launcher my character stopped sprinting after 16 seconds. In underpants it took him around 45 seconds until he stopped sprinting...

To be fair, what metalcraze means is that once you stop sprinting, all Units have the same penalty no matter how much they carry. The difference in covering 500 meters I just tested for a Unit in underpants and a Unit loaded to the max with missile launcher and sniper rifle was.... 0 seconds. The empty Unit only had an empty rifle to match the animations. The time for the 500 meters was 2 minutes flat, starting fatigue was set with this setFatigue 0.55 to prevent the Unit from sprinting.

That is the problem with the system, not the sprinting. I think it is one thing that needs to be addressed, and missing niggles like that would worry me more than a missing campaign. Same for the -~*MaGiC*~- AT missiles, right-click-to-win lock on system, the useless action menu, the half-assembled health system and various building sites with the AI.

I find those more problematic than the Campaign. And I would be disappointed if BI would provide the standing issues with "solutions" in the forms of rollbacks. The focus on the AI and the attention it is getting is fantastic, unfortunately there are more things that need to be solved, so getting the leading brainpower away from the campaign and into solving other, long standing issues is more pressing. Especially now that time is becoming a precious commodity.

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Actually, the Capital of the real island Lemnos is about 80km^2 big. Scale that down to 75% and you'll get 60km^2. I would describe that as massive for a game.

I just tested it. With Sniper rifle + Rocket Launcher my character stopped sprinting after 16 seconds. In underpants it took him around 45 seconds until he stopped sprinting.

I'm not quite sure what you mean? You can sprint for ever in Battlefield 3...

I've been down this road with metalcraze before, you won't win. He's convinced Arma 3 is ruined and terrible and catered for casuals and that arma 2 was immeasurably superior, and you won't change his mind on that.

And for all this whining about fatigue, I distinctly remember running my soldier across the entire map of arma 2 will fully kitted out, at best I couldn't sprint (which is present in arma 3) after a while. Your jogging is only slightly slowed too. If this has been removed it's an incredibly minor thing to whinge about, it barely affects gameplay.

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First of all: The overly angry reception to this "leaked news" is full of rather empty but exaggerated words, a good argument is not something that makes no sense.

Pardon me ? Arguments always make sense. A fact that is far too often neglected on this forum.

Do you honestly think that you wouldn't get the proper explanation from BI about the delay of the campaign?

That they would just mention that "By the way, you're not getting a campaign at release. Just deal with it."?

And only the Angry Response would bring the excuses and apologies?

Then where is it ? Why do we get to know this through some third party ?

I'm not feeling cheated or misled now, and I really don't see why I should.

And maybe those who do feel that now, will still find the new content pretty good when it arrives, and be satisfied when the campaign feels a bit more complete.

You are utterly and completely missing the whole point. But since "good arguments don't make sense" and I've been over this before, I'll spare you the arguments

Edit: And it's ridiculous to see how low some people stoop here, calling others crybabies, fanboys, ragers, all the nonsense. If the only thing you can say are insults, then I would strongly suggest just keeping your mouth shut.

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Then where is it ? Why do we get to know this through some third party ?

Look, just a few pages ago in this thread

Hi all! The information about the campaign in this article is confirmed, but not complete. We had hoped to openly discuss this with you via a blog next week, so you would not have to rely on a secondary source. Please wait for our blog in which we explain our motivation and more details about these plans.

The only thing I will say now: there will be a campaign for Arma 3 soon after initial release, and it will be FREE for everyone who has the game.

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Actually, the Capital of the real island Lemnos is about 80km^2 big. Scale that down to 75% and you'll get 60km^2. I would describe that as massive for a game.

Altis has only small villages.

I just tested it. With Sniper rifle + Rocket Launcher my character stopped sprinting after 16 seconds. In underpants it took him around 45 seconds until he stopped sprinting.

When in reality you shouldn't be able to even sprint at A3 speed in the former case to begin with and should be able to sprint for a lot lot longer in the latter.

And even then what difference does it make? In both cases you will continue to jog at the same speed, in both cases you will not suffer any fatigue effects apart from no sprint.

I'm not quite sure what you mean? You can sprint for ever in Battlefield 3...

OK I may be wrong here. Perhaps I'm confusing this part with BF2 then where you definitely can't sprint forever

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First of all: I couldn't care less about the Campaign, the last I fully played trough were all in OFP (back when the game (AI!) wouldn't break the missions). Any SP mission I play from A1 on, frustrated me so much that I completely lost interest in SP.

But! I'm honestly surprised by this all-or-nothing decision. Removing the campaign from the release will make all newcomers (who didn't read this) and reviewers confused and you can expect a true shitstorm about that.

Why didn't they just cut the campaign in half (or even less!), and polish the first half to the max. Then, when you arrive at the last mission, you show a popup that the rest of the story will come shortly. I guess people will understand, download some community missions, and forget about the campaign completely. Problem solved!

I fully agree that BIS should not release any sub-par quality stuff in the game, because I was hoping for the very first BIS release that is not an utter mess. But now they've taken it too far and It seems that the word compromise is on the forbidden list of words at their HQ...

oh, And If you really leave the campaign out, do NOT remove the campaign button from the main menu, but grey it out with a message that it will come soonish. Only a very small portion of the players will read blogs/forums/changelogs and won't have a clue

Edited by rundll.exe

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