Development Blog & Reveals

[windies 11]

Right... I hope you're not serious with that.

More or less it's what they're doing anyways, just have to hope they don't want pink tanks. I don't agree with the sentiment that the customer isn't important, not exactly always right because without the customer, BI would cease to exist, but logic like that obviously doesn't belong on these forums. I mean the logic behind -Coulum- and others statements are basically that because a customer thinks Tanks should be pink, BI will fail, but if BI decides tanks should be pink, I.E. doing whatever the hell they wan't regardless of customers, BI will flourish in the monetary gain of pink tanks. Obviously two extremes to prove a point and you can argue the semantics of the extremity of the example, but the principle still remains the same and is just as flawed. Both sides are equally important as both sides want something out of each other, money from the customer and a product from the business.

Now a symbiotic customer/business relationship, based on customer needs and company goals, who woulda thought that might work.....

[nicolasroger 11]

They didn't say that the customer is not improtant. Simply that not every customer idea is good. They will at the very least consider it before judging it not good.

[-Coulum- 35]

Right... I hope you're not serious with that.

No I am absolutely serious. BI can pretty much do or not do anything they want. Obviously I hope that they take into consideration what I and everyone else wants, but at the end of the day its up to them. Whatever they do there will be good and bad consequences.

I will try not to rant, but it erks me that often this community comes off as overly entitled. I actually think BI has spoilt us with their above average community involvement and constant support. Not many games are supported so long after they are released. Even less have plans for new free features and game mechanics.

And yet we complain because we might have to see a few pop up ads when using optional dlc content that we didn't want to pay for.

Quite frankly, its ridiculous.

We bought a single product from BI. Not a service. And now people get upset because BI is trying to encourage you to buy their new product so that they can continue to provide you a service, for free.

I understand that Lite was better for us, avoided splitting the community, yada yada yada, but sometimes the reality is a good idea simply isn't feasible.

So is the customer always right? Hell no! Sometimes the customer is fucking delusional and has no idea how much work is going on behind the scenes to satisfy their precious desires.

Varanon please don't take what I say personally I am not directed this at you, its just that you inspired me to write the impression I get from some of the community. I do not mean to offend you or anyone else, just to express my opinion.

Sorry for the rant/offtopic

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

No I am absolutely serious. BI can pretty much do or not do anything they want. Obviously I hope that they take into consideration what I and everyone else wants, but at the end of the day its up to them. Whatever they do there will be good and bad consequences.

I will try not to rant, but it erks me that often this community comes off as overly entitled. I actually think BI has spoilt us with their above average community involvement and constant support. Not many games are supported so long after they are released. Even less have plans for new free features and game mechanics.

And yet we complain because we might have to see a few pop up ads when using optional dlc content that we didn't want to pay for.

Quite frankly, its ridiculous.

We bought a single product from BI. Not a service. And now people get upset because BI is trying to encourage you to buy their new product so that they can continue to provide you a service, for free.

I understand that Lite was better for us, avoided splitting the community, yada yada yada, but sometimes the reality is a good idea simply isn't feasible.

So is the customer always right? Hell no! Sometimes the customer is fucking delusional and has no idea how much work is going on behind the scenes to satisfy their precious desires.

Varanon please don't take what I say personally I am not directed this at you, its just that you inspired me to write the impression I get from some of the community. I do not mean to offend you or anyone else, just to express my opinion.

Sorry for the rant/offtopic

Well said on allot of that. And while some of the community has some ridiculous idea of things that should be in game (one of my squad mates who constantly wants ww2 tanks from world of tanks in game... idiot. -.-), or they think belong in game, some go by their own standards rather than one that has been set by BI via. Armaverse 2035. Then there are others who do make good suggestions now and then, but sometimes are hard to find. For example, go through the Ideas and Wishes thread, and you'll find that its got some pretty silly suggestions, but a good handful of great suggestions. Some say that they would like to see some m4's in game because MODERN master race, when really, it would probably be more on the lines of the ACR, given the armaverse. Now, this somewhat fits in with the whole customer right/wrong thing, it all depends. Some customers are right. Others are not. It's that simple. Pink tanks in 2035? Well, i don't know about you, but in all the combat footage I've seen, I've never seen a pink tank (don't troll saying that's because its that good of a camo you cant see it. Beat you to it) rolling around with infantry. That's an example. Now, a suggestion about maybe a vehicle that makes sense, fits in with the setting, environment, time zone, and the factions to most likely use it, and very high detail, is something that would most likely fit a more realistic scenario, and a real chance of making it into the game, because that suggestions, is not just good, it fits in with the base game, only improving upon the foundation that has been laid.

As for the DLC thing? Yeah, i'm done with that, its obvious people don't want to spend money, they just want it free. >.>

[Tonci87 163]

I will try not to rant, but it erks me that often this company comes off as overly entitled. I actually think we have spoilt BI with our above average community involvement and one and a half decade support. Not many games are so broken and unfinished (Arma 3 is a pleasant improvement when it comes to broken) so long after they are released.

Fixed that for you.

As I see it this whole buisness does work both ways. Of course BIS s free to do what they want, but we are also free to not buy any future products from them if they mess up horribly and we deem them not worthy. After Arma 2 I promised myself that I will never by anything from them at release again. But they convinced me with their Alpha/Beta plans and the reduced price. So in my opinion it was worth it to give them another chance. If I had known that this game will have much less content/features than Arma 2 so long after it´s release I might have decided otherwise. And I think I will next time.

[Alwarren 2767]

We bought a single product from BI. Not a service. And now people get upset because BI is trying to encourage you to buy their new product so that they can continue to provide you a service, for free.

I think you are seriously missing the point, at least the point that Varanon was making. This isn't about a few people with feelings of entitlement that want MOAR STUFF. If a company has a product to sell, they do well to heed the main stream of their customer base's wishes, or at least listen to it. There is no point in a company saying "we will do whatever we want" if they cannot sell the proposition. As an example, a lot of us would not have liked an Arma 3 that goes against Aliens, I'm quite sure of that. So if they insisted on doing it and their customer base (the MAJORITY, not a few vocal ones) doesn't like it, then they will not sell it.

I am sure Varanon did not mean to say that BIS should be listening to everything that any large group of customers say, but if you do not listen to what your customers want, chances are that the product isn't going to sell. That is the whole point of it. I wasn't thrilled with a lot of the things that BIS did with Arma 3 (at least initially, some things have evolved in a direction I like), but their recent 1 million sale record shows that they did the right thing. It can easily go the other way too. That's why you heed customer feedback.

Since both Varanon and myself own the supporter edition I could hardly care less about Lite vs. annoyware. The model they are employing now is, to say the least, different from what almost the entire rest of the world does. It remains to be seen if it is a good idea or not, but the customer feedback (be it vocal or wallet) will determine if it is a good idea or not, and if it turns out they don't sell enough, they'll be better off with adjusting to the customer base's wishes instead of insisting on a specific model.

Bottom line, customer feedback (as a whole, not as in single voices on the forum) is of vital importance to any company that wants to make a profit. Because a company lives from their customers, not the other way around, and if the customers refuse to buy, they won't be the ones going bust over it.

[Varanon 892]

...

What Alwarren said.

Coulum, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. A company wanting to sell a product will better listen to what their customers want, or they will not sell that product. As simple as that. Of course, that doesn't mean that after I bought the product, they will have to do my every whim. It does not mean that I can dictate the future direction. Buying a product only entitles me to get what I paid for.

However, if there is a sufficiently large group of people that say "We buy this IF <insert feature here> is in", then the company needs to decide whether they want to sell to that group or not. It's simple economics. As such, the idea that a company should listen to what their customers want is not irrational. In the end, the customer decides what they want to buy.

So yeah, a company should better listen to what their customer wants.

[pettka 694]

Thanks for valuable input on behalf of managing the company, could You all, please, return to the topic? Feel free to continue with this discussion in another topic if You want to :icon_twisted:

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Alright, that sounds like something that should be in a debate thread, but even then, its pointless to debate over a company. Back on topic, however...

What we can expect to see ropes looking like with the PhysX Rope. :D

[onlyrazor 11]

I'm still waiting for someone to confirm fast-roping in this game come Arma 3: Helicopters. Don't leave me... hanging.

[Gutsnav 13]

Alright, that sounds like something that should be in a debate thread, but even then, its pointless to debate over a company. Back on topic, however...

What we can expect to see ropes looking like with the PhysX Rope. :D

Oh sweet jesus. Do you think we might have grappling hooks for some SWAT-style skyscraper breching? probably a little far-fetched :P

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Oh sweet jesus. Do you think we might have grappling hooks for some SWAT-style skyscraper breching? probably a little far-fetched :P

What the heck do you think this is, Battlefield Hardline?

And no, i expect the basic things they mentioned (sling loading), and maybe a few extra things. Rescue ability, via. ropes from helicopters to the ocean that is too wave violent to hover close to, or adding in some more rope based utility things.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

As nice as grappling hooks in Arma 3 would be, I can't see much use for them. Sure, there's large rocks, the hospital, and those office buildings, but what else would really use it? The Ghost Hotel? There's not many civilian buildings that would use it. I suppose you could throw it over a wall, if you're trying to be quiet instead of just making a new entry with an explosive charge.

Also, on a wildly unrelated note: https://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/477455093386973184/photo/1

Football DLC confirmed, Scorcher four gun-salute at half time confirmed. PhysX footballs confirmed.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Kilroy the Nerd

[suiside 95]

the football scene would be nice for some civ module

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

That's brilliant. Lol, love the soccer ball.

[PenguinInATuxedo 18]

While It would be funny to see in game, I can't see the football DLC happening. This is a screenshot not a video like the Karts joke was and I can't imagine this controlling well at all.

Then BIS would have to deal with all the people complaining like they did on the Karts DLC, Though I would like to see the soccer ball as a object in game with PhysX enabled.

[Smurf 12]

Take On Balls? :rolleyes:

[vegeta897 13]

Probably took less than an hour to create that screenshot, and there is not even a hint of anything being announced as a DLC or even a free thing like Zeus. Let's nip this in the bud and not start acting like it's something that could actually happen, because that's how rumors begin. Karts was a different story because there was an actual model created for it, and although it wasn't intended as DLC when revealed either, it made a little more sense because the game already has vehicles, and a new vehicle isn't a radical addition. Actually creating an entirely new set of animations, more controls, and god knows what else just to create proper soccer player handling would be serious engine-changing work, not something somebody could do in their spare time like a go-kart model. Not to mention, it does not at all fit with the Arma philosophy, as it's a pretty limited concept. At least with Karts, BIS has turned every island into a potential racetrack. The roads and urban areas in Altis turned out to be excellent places to race gokarts. And the karts could be used in other missions, as well as the addition of the checkpoint race modules which made racing missions easier to create (and racing missions have always been a small fun part of the arma series).

Edited June 14, 2014 by vegeta897

[kilroy the nerd 14]

What? There are plenty of football fields across Altis. Also, it could be expanded. Finally, I don't think anyone here is actually taking this seriously as a DLC, so do please just relax.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Lol, people need to chill out. It's just a World Cup screen shot. Sheesh. Plus, those animations are already in game, its just step to the side, step diagonal, and well, idk what the goal's animation is but, what ever. Its not a DLC. Chill, and enjoy the games.

[vegeta897 13]

What? There are plenty of football fields across Altis. Also, it could be expanded.

But they're still all football fields. A rectangular area. That isn't very diverse. And you don't play football for the field, like you play karts for the track. Football isn't exactly a game that takes advantage of what Arma offers, like Zeus and Karts do.

That's s Finally, I don't think anyone here is actually taking this seriously as a DLC, so do please just relax.

Not in this very thread, but on Twitter and Facebook there are people losing their shit. I'm trying to do what I said, nipping it in the bud, before a serious discussion begins about it. I'm not directly speaking to anyone in this thread, but rather speaking on the topic in general, since I've already seen plenty of people overreacting to it. I've read enough angry reactions in this very thread to the Karts DLC, from people who legitimately think BIS doesn't care about Arma being a milsim anymore, and those people would be perfectly capable of believing BIS would add something like this to the game. I wanted to say something before they even posted. There's no harm in that. I'm also quite relaxed, thank you :)

Edited June 14, 2014 by vegeta897

[Tonci87 163]

Guys for all we know that ball might as well been photoshoped into the screenshot... There is really no reason to get super excited...

[Mr. Charles 22]

Guys for all we know that ball might as well been photoshoped into the screenshot... There is really no reason to get super excited...

It's not even that much work to do a football for a screenshot.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

This whole topic is absurd

[gliptal 25]

It probably was just an animator having fun during his lunch break.

Yay!