Get rid of 'tab and shoot' and get bipods in!!!

[Nicholas 5]

OK but even when I lie down, the mg's are still inaccurate and the insane recoil is still there.

Ummm...are you sure you have a legal version of the game? Can you show us a video of your gameplay? In my game, when I use an MG and lay down, I am extremely accurate, there is very little recoil. If you are not using a legal copy, the game will automatically degrade, such as increasing the amount of recoil and bullet spray.

I highly suggest you PM Placebo and have him check your CD key to make sure it's legitimate.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Nicholas

[mosh 0]

It's not like I disagree with the changes he raises, I just completely lost respect due to the provocative way he wrote his post and I knew it would do nothing but incite anger. If someone made a thread on the same topic as this but opened with a mature post then I would have taken it more seriously.

The extra exclamations (!!!) in the title always means someone is really serious and not messing around... or that they are retarded. ;)

anyways... bipods, yes those would be nice

[rangerpl 13]

Arma is supposed to be a military simulator but some of the stuff in Arma is so ridiculous and arcadey that its not in my book a simulator.

First of all, get rid of that tab and shoot shit, its unrealistic and annoying, why not use something a bit more realistic like mando missile mod.

Second, where is the bipods? this is a military simulation game and you can shoot a m249 from the hip? OK but even when I lie down, the mg's are still inaccurate and the insane recoil is still there. Even Red Orchestra 2 has bi pods, you can even deploy your mg on sandbags and crouch while reloading.

Come on Bohemia some of the shit in Arma 2 is ridiculous, like when a jeep has one tire shot off and it starts spinning round in circles, like what the fuck?

Please don't have the same stupid unrealistic shit in the new one.

By the way I love both Arma and red orchestra and I know that the bipod thing was brought up somewhere else but it needs to be seen.

Oh and anybody that doesn't agree with one of the things I say please give a valid reason why or I will assume you are a Bohemia fanboy :raisebrow:

Constructive criticism is good.

This is supposed to be a serious thread but some of the stuff in this thread is so ridiculous and stupid that its not in my book a good thread.

First of all, get rid of that swearing shit, its immature and annoying, why not use something a bit more mature like polite language.

Second, where are the manners? this is a serious, mature forum and you still curse in your inflammatory posts? OK but even when I look past the swearing, your points are still inaccurate and the insane lack of logic is still there. Even the suggestion thread has logic and politeness, you can even have a good debate in there

Come on OP some of the shit in this thread is ridiculous, like when you don't like something you swear about it, like what the fuck?

Please don't say the same stupid unrealistic shit in your new thread.

By the way I love both troll threads and polite discussions and I know that the maturity thing was brought up somewhere else but it needs to be seen.

Oh and anybody that doesn't agree with one of the things I say please give a valid reason why or I will assume you are a troll :raisebrow:

Constructive criticism is good.

Fixed it for you ;)

[metalcraze 290]

There's still Red Orchestra for those who think ArmA isn't realistic enough to suit their fancy, you know?

It isn't like RO2 is really realistic to begin with with all the Gears of War'ishness of it

[crazyirish93 10]

It isn't like RO2 is really realistic to begin with with all the Gears of War'ishness of it

Im not even going to explain how wrong u are but i would also like too see bipods but more importantly get rid of tab lock i realy hate that thing have it on the easier difficulty modes though for the newbies.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Oh and anybody that doesn't agree with one of the things I say please give a valid reason why or I will assume you are a Bohemia fanboy :raisebrow:

My eyes.

FPDR

If you had made a decent post: Yes, tab-locking is retarded.

[Smurf 12]

It isn't like RO2 is really realistic to begin with with all the Gears of War'ishness of it

What? All cover will be in first person view. Thats the proper way of doing it.

@Topic: Agreed with OP in both points. Inumerous mods and even BF3 will have bipods. A so called war sim can´t live without these (or depent soleny in mods).

[rye1 21]

My pistol has a bipod...

[Beagle 684]

Arma is supposed to be a military simulator but some of the stuff in Arma is so ridiculous and arcadey that its not in my book a simulator.

First of all, get rid of that tab and shoot shit, its unrealistic and annoying, why not use something a bit more realistic like mando missile mod.

Second, where is the bipods? this is a military simulation game and you can shoot a m249 from the hip? OK but even when I lie down, the mg's are still inaccurate and the insane recoil is still there. Even Red Orchestra 2 has bi pods, you can even deploy your mg on sandbags and crouch while reloading.

Come on Bohemia some of the shit in Arma 2 is ridiculous, like when a jeep has one tire shot off and it starts spinning round in circles, like what the fuck?

Please don't have the same stupid unrealistic shit in the new one.

By the way I love both Arma and red orchestra and I know that the bipod thing was brought up somewhere else but it needs to be seen.

Oh and anybody that doesn't agree with one of the things I say please give a valid reason why or I will assume you are a Bohemia fanboy :raisebrow:

Constructive criticism is good.

You're absolutely right bit it unfortunatley won't change the way it is. And I live under the impression that a lots of player want it that way, especially the arcade flight and targetting...that would explain why LockOn servers are all so empty and the Su-25s and Kamovs fly all in ArmA.

[ArmAriffic 10]

First of all, get rid of that tab and shoot shit, its unrealistic and annoying, why not use something a bit more realistic like mando missile mod.

NOT confimed but in the credits for OA it says "Mando Missile Systems approved by US Department of Defence at todays hearing; Navy and Air Force to implement systems by 2012", my guess is we may be getting an official MMA :)

(confirmed features thread)

:D

Edited July 7, 2011 by ArmAriffic

[Beagle 684]

I thought about the Airplane problem in particular and stumbled across how BIS solved the missing damage model problem in SP...A.I. Pilots in airplanes will eject whenever plane has less then 50% Hitpoints...while humans tend to fly till the end...because a Plane with 1% will work as good as a plane with 100%.

A solution for MP here would be autoeject script whenever hitpoints is less than 50% in the air....still alowing hard landings this way.

Choppers were never a problem since you get them to go down without the need to kil all HP on them...as Choppers at least have a working damage model.

[carlostex 38]

Arma is supposed to be a military simulator but some of the stuff in Arma is so ridiculous and arcadey that its not in my book a simulator.

Offer your services to BIS if you can do better.

First of all, get rid of that tab and shoot shit, its unrealistic and annoying, why not use something a bit more realistic like mando missile mod.

Please BIS keep the tab and shoot just to annoy this guy more.

Second, where is the bipods? this is a military simulation game and you can shoot a m249 from the hip? OK but even when I lie down, the mg's are still inaccurate and the insane recoil is still there. Even Red Orchestra 2 has bi pods, you can even deploy your mg on sandbags and crouch while reloading.

Go play Red Orchetra 2

Come on Bohemia some of the shit in Arma 2 is ridiculous, like when a jeep has one tire shot off and it starts spinning round in circles, like what the fuck?

Shit is what you do in the bathroom so stop crapping on the forums please.

Please don't have the same stupid unrealistic shit in the new one.

By the way I love both Arma and red orchestra and I know that the bipod thing was brought up somewhere else but it needs to be seen.

Unrealistic shit? You mean like an out of this world turd?

Oh and anybody that doesn't agree with one of the things I say please give a valid reason why or I will assume you are a Bohemia fanboy :raisebrow:

Constructive criticism is good.

Here's my valid reason: The next time you post, drop the shites and stupideness. I believe there's a thread for ideas and wishes so use it.

Constructive criticism is good, desrespectful criticism is not.

And yes, i am a Bohemia fanboy. Thank you Bohemia:

"Our Bohemia in heaven,

hallowed be your game.

Real Virtuality come,

and your will be done,

on earth as it is in my PC.

Give us this day Arma 3,

and forgive us for begging,

as we also have modding.

And lead us into accelerated physics,

but deliver us from lagging."

[max power 21]

@OP

In helicopters, mostly you fly as the pilot and 'commander'. Tab locking is done while you're the pilot, to command the gunner while you have your hands full with the controls. Please describe a better system for that.

Seriously, when can we have the whole "you must be registered for at least 6/12/18 months before being allowed to post" thing enabled?

Would surely reduce the amount of spammo' tard threads like this...

Yeah, or at least in this particular forum. This has defs become the slums of the BIF board.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Max Power

[Nads 10]

Even Red Orchestra 2 has bi pods, you can even deploy your mg on sandbags and crouch while reloading.

If I remember correctly Hidden and Dangerous 2 from years ago, which was the only proper WWII tac shooter before RO you could not fire the Bren gun from a standing position you had to go prone and use the bipod.

[Baff1 0]

While that was not exactly "realism" it was a fun game mechanic that I enjoyed. It differentiated between the different weapons.

I'd like to see a more stable MG in ArmA. I find them stable enough to use effectively as is, but not when I am using the iron sights. Instead I typically use them as a laser gun. Targetting with the cross hair or by the tracer beams only.

(@ all the trolls who posted on the front page of this thread. If you have nothing to add, add nothing. If a post inflames you to bait the poster... please try and do it by PM, the whole of the front page of this thread as flamebait... Really?).

Edited July 7, 2011 by Baff1

[st_dux 26]

Bi-pod support is just a small part of a larger problem, and that is weapon support in general. A system for weapon resting similar to what has been implemented in ACE (or better yet, Red Orchestra) is nothing short of absolutely necessary for an infantry simulator to be rightly considered highly realistic.

I consider the tab-and-shoot thing to be less of a concern, as ArmA is first-and-foremost an infantry simulator. Mods should be sufficient for this sort of thing.

[5LEvEN 11]

Seriously, when can we have the whole "you must be registered for at least 6/12/18 months before being allowed to post" thing enabled?

Would surely reduce the amount of spammo' tard threads like this...

Because I wouldn't be able to post :)

---------- Post added at 05:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 AM ----------

Why do people think the Mando mod is realistic? I mean really? Its just a more complicated version of the current arcade targeting system. In real life aerial vehicles use radar, MPD, MFD, visual, and Forward air controllers to locate targets... Tanks would use Thermal, normal visual, scopes, maybe radar, and friendly forces to locate targets..

---------- Post added at 05:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 AM ----------

Bi-pod support is just a small part of a larger problem, and that is weapon support in general. A system for weapon resting similar to what has been implemented in ACE (or better yet, Red Orchestra) is nothing short of absolutely necessary for an infantry simulator to be rightly considered highly realistic.

I consider the tab-and-shoot thing to be less of a concern, as ArmA is first-and-foremost an infantry simulator. Mods should be sufficient for this sort of thing.

I don't remember a Dev ever saying arma was first and foremost an infantry simulator. I think everyone ASSUMES that because the infantry are the best simulated as of right now... Taking away the Tab targeting system adds difficulty for the crew and pilot of vehicles. It makes it more realistic...

[dysta 10]

Offensive ARMA-do beware...

Please, just grab a weapon and stuffs to shoot... if you have a mere sense of logic.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

We've managed to get infantry work more challenging and realistic for the right reasons; rucks, CSWs, recoil, camera shakes etc. I wouldn't mind rests (I thought they were already looking into that) but then coupled with proper weapon sway because I hit far to much under pressure despite taking a bit too many bullets to drop a guy who I wouldn't expect to be wearing the most modern combat armor. But one thing bugs the hell out of me regarding infantry work, and that is grenades and grenade launchers with rocket ballistics after that. Grenades are too hard to guesstimate and if in a confined space you'll typically kill yourself and comrades, than manage to get the grenade where you want it. So despite being arcade, a visualized trajectory would be of tremendous help (I've tried since OFP and I'm getting nowhere), while in the real world it's (at least for thrown grenades) extremely intuitive. Rocket ballistics on the other hand, seems far too easy. Having to use the sights for different distances would be far better. To summarize for infantry (my personal view):

* A lot has been achieved already, overall making infantry work a bit more difficult due more options.

* Grenades, especially thrown, needs to be much more intuitive, using gui (if desired).

* If rests are introduced, we also need proper sway that the rest can get rid of. Having rests with the very little sway we have today would kill the firefight even more.

But what happened to aerial simulations? Well we got UAV's, ULB's which few seem to use due difficulties to get right in MP. But the big kicker is of course very awesome FLIR. But FLIR on it's own poses a difficult mission design issue that is hard to solve; typically you can just shoot at anything bright near the center of operations without having to do any identification work, because the server can't cope with civies etc that would up the mission to more believable standards. So the net effect of FLIR is that flying is now much more easy than it was.

Infantry work become harder. Flying become easier. See the dilemma? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Those new to the game tends to get assigned by admins as infantry (which I agree on), but shouldn't it be easier to master infantry work than aerial work? Now, I'm not very enthusiastic about flying as I prefer infantry work myself (I'll grab a chopper if I have to though), but it still feels easier to master flying than being a grunt.

Choppers I would expect to be a bit more unstable than they currently are, making them more difficult to master flying. So the TKOH flight model seems like a natural step. Flying jets I would assume being rather easy to master given all the spare thrust they have compared to small general aviation props, where the biggest difference is how fast things happen :p About the only thing making it challenging is (too) close air combat and using freefall bombs. And the only optional coop thing they get is laser designators and forward air controllers.

My point being:

Infantry could be made even more challenging/complex in the right areas, reduced in others - net change effect being rather small. But aerial work needs to be made quite a bit more challenging in order to keep a good balance between the two.

[rye1 21]

I seriously agree with grenades. If it was like AA2/AA3 with the way you through it, supporting hand as a guide and pressure depending on distance ACCURATELY then you would see a HUGE improvement in the way games are played, and the way PVP's turn out.

Right now you chuck it and it comes off almost 99% of the time as you would never of expected it. You aim, throw and it goes 10 inches from the start-up where you were aiming which equates to totally off target.

[dmarkwick 261]

I should like to maybe see a marker where the grenade is expected to land, or hit, moveable with the mouse after you've decided to throw, with a cancel option.

VBS2 has a visible white arc model that displays the arc of the grenade were it to be thrown at that point. But it seems too accurate to me, I'd prefer a marker that has some amount of natural variance in it, a ring of probability or a graded marker say.

Edited July 8, 2011 by DMarkwick

[rye1 21]

I prefer no marker, a marker would only be good for lower difficulties like recruit and training scenarios. AA2 where you toss it and aim with the support hand and hold down longer to throw further but it has a limit on how far, that's perfect, they have the time of how long you hold it down to how far it throws ratio spot on.

. Other than that, I could still deal with a marker and I would then use grenades as much as possible. People want BIS to improve CQB? This is a good start.

[dmarkwick 261]

There is the problem of throwing into dead ground as well. In cases where you're pinned down, you often need to throw blind knowing only a rough direction and range. How to appropriately simulate guessing a 20m throw into an area you cannot look at? Maybe the VBS2 arc has some merit after all :)

Plus, it would allow for throwing grenades into windows. An arc, with a small variance, would suit I think.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

You read my thoughts pretty well :) Personally I'd like to see area of impact become green when you're sure to hit it with any force, yellow if questionable, and red if you absolutely cannot hit the target from your current position. Could even be gradual indicating how well you need to time the release. I'm not saying there shouldn't be hard throws, but easy throws should actually be easy :p

The default arc shown indicates the medium power of the throw, modifiable by the angle (high or low angle) of your stance/aim.

Green and red are easy go no-go on the throw. For yellow, you start holding the button to initiate a throw. The arc comes down in power and the area of impact draws closer and smaller, indicating increased accuracy. As you hold down the mouse button, the arc and area grows, while the distance increase. Should the arc hit the ceiling or doorway it turns red indicating "this will not work well, fix problem before release". You can now adjust your aim before you release it. The high power at this point may give an inaccurate throw, but at least you'll be able to tell it's going in the right direction rather - out the door - than hit the ceiling.

Another even more arcade solution, especially now with ragdoll and possibly variable weighted animations, is to simply tell the game where you want the grenade to go, but here only the landing zone is shown. Try to throw too far, and it impacts your accuracy (zone gets larger). But here you don't need to control the power of the throw, the game automatically selects best throw mode and power to get the grenade to the target zone. Zone is green, yellow, and red here as well, where yellow indicates a dangerous throw that with bad luck will hit the wall and come right back.

For launched grenades its a bit more simple, as you deal with fixed power. But I do think thus could be skipped for launched grenades if we had working adjustable sights. I've never used an M203 or similar myself, but I expect it to require training to become proficient with it. Thrown grenades on the other hand, should just feel intuitive. The little practice I had with live grenades was about taking cover quickly enough, with some tech about how to pull the pin etc. Other than "over your head" (due safety obstruction), there was no "aim training" - it was all intuition.

Size of impact zone could even be influenced by users "aiming skill", as defined by mission by what outfit he is using - dress like a grenadier - shoot like one :p Ok, slightly on the wild side and a bit roleplaying'ish, but...

Yes I think this "helping gui" should be a user setting (rather than a server dictated difficulty one). Many are proficient without it and/or just dislike graphical aid occupying screen space. No need to step on their toes :p But I'm not keen on forcing the hard mode, at least not for this that is something that is natural thing to accomplish in real life, but (for me) impossible to master after many years in the game.

Edited July 8, 2011 by CarlGustaffa

[5LEvEN 11]

I think grenades should use the method that AA3 uses. If you want to see proper sights for grenade launchers then look at AA3 as well...