They better have female soldiers...

[[frl]myke 14]

@Kumeda

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2 of 3 posts deleted now.

[concurssi 11]

Why is there no "I don't care either way if there are women in the game or not" option?

[Mastiff 10]

where's my Shield Maiden?

[Kumeda 6]

@[FRL]Myke

wont happend again, i did repost it as the first post did go through instantly and the second time i needed some time to realize what happend. :D

[Guest]

If you are going to throw realism card around as you see fit would you agree that female soldiers are to be outperformed by male soldiers in carrying weight and sprinting while carrying said weight due to males having a bigger muscle mass - if said models are to be implemented?

And no - the amount of work will include making said models (because male and female frames are different and so are skeletons) and doing animations for them - unless you want for females to look like a male with feminine face (like it was in OFP the moment they got armed with a gun). It is also an extremely useless pointless request.

There are dozens of issues with gameplay - but they get 20... 30 votes at BEST. And something as stupid as "baaaawww there is no female soldier in the game" gets 350. People requesting it don't care about ArmA at all. This request shouldn't be fulfilled out of principle. If this is such a gamebreaker for those people - all the better.

Wind simulation? So snipers won't have an easy time sniping a dude 1 km away? No who needs that I want to have a barbie doll I can dress up durr.

Why wasn't I surprised when I saw your signature?

Who cares IF a female would be outperformed by male soldiers. It's a game. Regardless of how much you want this to be a spergy simulator, it's a game. Why would the animations be so different? I don't know about you, but I've never noticed women moving in such a different way to men that they'd require a whole different set of animations. As an example, as far as I know there is nothing odd looking or wrong with how the model moves. It's not a pointless request and there is no reason not to implement female models in as both soldiers and civillians. It will only enrich the game, add realism and add diversity.

"No who needs that I want to have a barbie doll I can dress up durr." Why would it be a "barbie doll"? You have a pretty shitty attitude.

[bugkill 7]

This whole "discussion" is laughable. I could care less if they have female units in the game, but let me clear the air real quick on some facts. There are ZERO females in the Seals, SF, or the infantry, as full fledged operators. Yes, the restriction has been lifted in the US military and there are countries that have female special operators or serve in the infantry, but we don't have any yet. I serve with ACTUAL females in the military, not those feminists sitting in offices with butch haircuts screaming about "equality" in the Armed Forces for women, when the true fact that it took INEQUALITY for many of them to be successful in the first place.

I have personally put men out of the Army because they failed to meet or maintain higher physical fitness standards placed on men. But these guys actually passed the standards the female have to meet (which is far lower) and they were in the same MOS (job); however, the military says she gets to stay while we send him home. Leon Panetta and President Obama made this decision just for change sake and gave marching orders to our generals to push the initiative without even first making it MANDATORY that every female, regardless of the MOS they are in, must meet the male physical fitness standards. How can they make assumptions that females can be successful at having a career in the infantry or as a special operator when they have NEVER been held to male standards? There is a reason why females have lower physical standards and to be honest, I'm happy that these people are coming out screaming that women can do everything a man can because I would LOVE to see our females have to meet what their male counterparts have to do and be judged accordingly.

Then you would see a major downsizing of the military, with the vast majority of them being women not able to perform at such a higher standard. This idea of changing standards based on MOS is actually LOWERING standards in order to fit the agenda and allow a very narrow group of women to serve in combat arms, not to truly excel in it or advance the idea of women being more successful. You first have to narrow the pool of women by making them ALL meet the same standards as men. Many will not make it and will be sent packing and a few will be able to stay, but when a woman graduates BUD/s or some other combat arms course, it will be legit. Many of you have never served one day in the military, much less serve with females (and that goes for President Obama as well), so your views are very limited and based on fantasy.

In the end, make the female units because I will definitely use them for missions, but they better not be in combat units, except for artillery, engineers, and air defense. My rant is over.

Edited March 11, 2013 by bugkill

[rickyd1 1]

2035 They might have more female soldiers. As we are seeing now more and more women are fighting on the front lines, More than ever before.

Stop comparing it to now you dumb asses get with the program, We will see a lot more women in the future. Besides this is a game! Girls want to play it. Reason i made an account is to vote for my girlfriend who is about to buy this game.

[metalcraze 290]

Holy crap. That dude pokes fun of my sig (what's wrong with it?) then calls ArmA an "asperger simulator" and then he demands "realism" in it

So yeah I am an aspie for wanting to fix obvious bugs in a game focusing on the authenticity of war and I have no right for wanting this kind of gameplay in ArmA.

But naturally in turn I must respect what you want.

ArmA community is going down the drain at a lightspeed and yes I'm butthurt over it.

Edited March 11, 2013 by metalcraze

[Kumeda 6]

And even if... as i posted on page before. This could be very well solved with a mod switching locally female with male chars i presume,as this could run clientside. So if someone doesnt like femal chars he could install this addon and didnt had to bother with seeng female chars ever again and for everyone else they can have fun as they like.

[sgtice 10]

2035 They might have more female soldiers. As we are seeing now more and more women are fighting on the front lines, More than ever before.

Stop comparing it to now you dumb asses get with the program, We will see a lot more women in the future. Besides this is a game! Girls want to play it. Reason i made an account is to vote for my girlfriend who is about to buy this game.

Define frontline for me if you wouldn't mind in great detail.

Your girlfriend is going to play, great. Don't try and force this down our throats.

Bug kill made a very good point about why most people don't want to see it & why this is stupid at best. There's no need to put a lot of man power, resources & money into implementing female models when the community can mod it in if they so please.

Women are not held to the same standards as men & thus to reflect that in-game would take some tweaking, then people would whine it's not balanced. Not to mention a multitude of other problems. The benefits do not outweigh the problems it puts forward. Go back to the start of the feedback tracker & read through the large mass of notes about it. No one justified why the devs should waste time implementing it, it dosen't make a difference compared to adding things which would benefit the game. All I saw was the same aesthetic & equality whining repeatedly throughout the thread.

Which is what I suggested numerous times in the feedback tracker Kumeda, but no one seemed to read that part.

But what I really want is someone to PM me & explain how adding females into ArmA III has anything to do with 1955 and female equality.

Edited March 11, 2013 by SGTIce
To prevent any confusion.

[Kumeda 6]

@SGTIce

i must have missed that. Well if even you think thats a solution what are we still arguing here. Bring on the integrated female chars in the profile ready for use by everyone and for everyone else who doesnt like GI Jane have a local option by mod/addon to swap chars in MP.

The modders would win, our women become acknowlaged, and who doesnt like it just blend it out :D

And if BI cant, we'll accepte it.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Kumeda

[leviath 10]

I have personally put men out of the Army because they failed to meet or maintain higher physical fitness standards placed on men. But these guys actually passed the standards the female have to meet (which is far lower) and they were in the same MOS (job); however, the military says she gets to stay while we send him home. Leon Panetta and President Obama made this decision just for change sake and gave marching orders to our generals to push the initiative without even first making it MANDATORY that every female, regardless of the MOS they are in, must meet the male physical fitness standards. How can they make assumptions that females can be successful at having a career in the infantry or as a special operator when they have NEVER been held to male standards? There is a reason why females have lower physical standards and to be honest, I'm happy that these people are coming out screaming that women can do everything a man can because I would LOVE to see our females have to meet what their male counterparts have to do and be judged accordingly.

I can't judge for the situation of the US army, but here in France, I know many women who are officers and soldiers, they reach the male standards and they even surpass them many times in trainings.

They are not really involved in the fight though because if a female soldier was killed in action, people would be really upset. People's mentality is not ready yet, but I guess in 2035, in the complicated situation we are supposed to see in the game, they may be involved. This is near Israel after all, the country who has the higher rate of female serving in the army.

[Kumeda 6]

couldnt delete my post..

Edited March 11, 2013 by Kumeda

[narwall14 1]

I would not mind women in Arma 3.

[nicolasroger 11]

I didn't read all of the 112 pages, but I wanted to add this to the discussion:

The soldiers need to all have identical bodies so that the clothing system will work properly. Females have boobs wich will stick out of the clothes. That mean the devs would have to redesign all of the clothes + vest just so that we can fight as a female soldier. I see that as completly unecessary given the ressources it would take to actualy do that.

[MissionCreep 12]

If they have as many women in the Arma3 Alpha as actually play Arma 3 Alpha the math still doesn't look good.

I didn't read all of the 112 pages, but I wanted to add this to the discussion:

The soldiers need to all have identical bodies so that the clothing system will work properly. Females have boobs wich will stick out of the clothes. That mean the devs would have to redesign all of the clothes + vest just so that we can fight as a female soldier. I see that as completly unecessary given the ressources it would take to actualy do that.

Dude ... this is the military, not "Tomb Raider" ... most women in active combat roles don't have big boobs. And besides, they wear body armour which hopefully would cover that up ... unless they are wearing their futuristic ceremonial "dress bikini" uniforms :).

Edited March 11, 2013 by MissionCreep

[claus.valca 0]

I didn't read all of the 112 pages, but I wanted to add this to the discussion:

The soldiers need to all have identical bodies so that the clothing system will work properly. Females have boobs wich will stick out of the clothes. That mean the devs would have to redesign all of the clothes + vest just so that we can fight as a female soldier. I see that as completly unecessary given the ressources it would take to actualy do that.

Bullshit. Once a female soldier dons a plate carrier, webbing, and head gear there is virtually no difference in appearance to a male soldier. Even without the plate carrier, given the nature of most combat uniforms, there aren't "boobs" sticking out all over the place. I'm all for including female soldiers in ArmA 3. People want to bring up realism, but this is a game after all. If someone wants to play a female character, let them.

It takes place over 20 years into the future. Integration of women into combat roles is starting to happen at an increasing pace. Heck, women get into combat situations in the military without being in a combat arms role anyway.

I spent 20 years in the US Army in infantry units. The involvement of the female soldier has been increasing for a long time now.

TLDR - Arguments against inclusion of female soldiers in this game seem based more on sexism than realism. This is a huge topic in the games industry right now and I would like to see Bohemia take a progressive approach to this matter. I know the game studio I work for is taking this matter seriously now these days too. ArmA doesn't need to remain some kind of boys club. It can be inclusive.

Edited March 11, 2013 by claus.valca

[Faith 1]

Ah I think that women models should be added into the game, Here's an example if you have ever watched the original movie "S.W.A.T." Now in the movie there is one female on the SWAT team, so why not treat games in a similar way? Of course we can keep coming out with games that only feature men, but that gets a little old. People just want a mix of genders within the game playing as the military, So say you have 6 team members in your squad we could make it fair and balance it out so 1-2 women in that six group squad. It's fair, doesn't have all dudes running in a six man group, basically people want the feature for female models to be added is because it can be used for certain type of missions or Role Playing. Why do you think when Gears of Wars 3 came out they included female models in the game? It had more playable men models but also had some playable female models, And there much much rave about how they put female models in the game for the first time, gamer's were thrilled to see that after reading the reviews.

[bugkill 7]

I can't judge for the situation of the US army, but here in France, I know many women who are officers and soldiers, they reach the male standards and they even surpass them many times in trainings.

They are not really involved in the fight though because if a female soldier was killed in action, people would be really upset. People's mentality is not ready yet, but I guess in 2035, in the complicated situation we are supposed to see in the game, they may be involved. This is near Israel after all, the country who has the higher rate of female serving in the army.

Like I said, I was strictly speaking about the US Army, not other countries. Also, you bring up the example of how France do not allow their women to fight and I ask you if that makes any sense? Why allow them to serve in the infantry, if you are only going to keep them from doing their jobs. That is why this whole thing is dumb and you got people speaking out of the side of their necks. If you want women to be successful and accepted into the combat arms units, you need to have them meet the standards of men throughout the force. The standards are the same for men across the board when it comes to the PT test that is required to stay in the military, no matter what your MOS is or what unit you belong to (there are higher standards in certain units in order to serve in them, but failure of those standards will not get you booted out of the military).

It just baffles me how so many people do not see the ridiculous assertions about what a woman can do in combat arms when they have NEVER been subjected to even meeting the standards of their male counterparts in support units! Why not push for them to be subjected to higher standards before opening up all the jobs? Isn't it about equality? Why not let women fight to keep their jobs at the same level of their male comrades? Well, we all know the answer to that and I'm done talking about it because I will be retiring soon and it won't matter much to me.

Back to the game, we should have female troops in the game either by the devs or by the modding community. Not a big deal really.

[viper[cww] 14]

I'm all for having female combatants, as long as they stay out of the PvP area of the game, all those elitists who choose to go female as it decreases they're likely hood of getting hit.... :nono:

[dunedain 48]

I can't judge for the situation of the US army, but here in France, I know many women who are officers and soldiers, they reach the male standards and they even surpass them many times in trainings. [...] This is near Israel after all, the country who has the higher rate of female serving in the army

Israel is a small country surrounded by "enemies". If one day they get invaded even teenagers will have to fight for their lives.

As for France, I know for a fact women aren't held to the same physical standards as men from recruitment to training. I don't know what you've been told, but it's probably far fetched from reality. At least from what I've learned during the time I spent in the 28th signal regiment at Issoire for my PMD.

If it wasn't for quotas you wouldn't see many women in the military. Simply because very few can meet the basic physical requirements currently expected from male recruits, let alone go through the kind of training combat units get.

Edited March 11, 2013 by dunedain

[Kumeda 6]

@VIPER[CWW]

never thought about this, but i dont think that has to be true. The size can be the same as the male counterpart. And even if the female would be a little bit smaler in height it wont be much of a difference as you still need to aim properly in arma to hit your target.

[nicolasroger 11]

You guys might have a point about combat gears, but this won't work for shirts, when the females are not in combat gear.

[viper[cww] 14]

never thought about this, but i dont think that has to be true. The size can be the same as the male counterpart. And even if the female would be a little bit smaler in height it wont be much of a difference as you still need to aim properly in arma to hit your target.

Pointless having a female soldier who is the same size in comparison, I've not met many women who match a man in height and stature. There is an old saying 'The smaller the target, the harder to hit', since the average engagement in ArmA is 300m, an average size women presents a very small target compared to a man.

Many PvP games that utilize both sexes see men using female characters, Planetside 2, Guild Wars 2 etc for example.

Edited March 11, 2013 by VIPER[CWW]
typo

[Zek 1]

;2330818']Pointless having a female soldier who is the same size in comparison' date=' I've not met many women who match a man in height and stature. There is an old saying 'The smaller the target, the harder to hit'[/quote']

That's the problem IMO, female soldiers will be smaller targets, and the males would be in a disadvantage. To mitigate this I think men should run faster (IRL men do run faster than women) and/or make them stronger, i.e. more carrying capacity, stamina...