Do you want Laaagdoll Physics in ArmA 3?

[walker 0]

Hi all

And still not one can point to a single MP game with more than a handfull of entities that uses Ragdoll physics.

Not one.

Did any of you wonder why?

Kind Regards walker

[froggyluv 2135]

LoL -having abit of dejavu Walker as we already had this exact same conversation in the Arm2 thread.

...and the revamped animation system.

Whatever this may be , I for one am excited.

[Heatseeker 0]

A few years back i thought that with so much room for improvement wasting time and work on ragdolls would be a total waste. Today i would still prioritise other aspects of the game/engine over trivial ragdolls but i think its time to start looking into it.

H&D2 already pulled this off in 2002 plus if Arma 3 will require a i5 cpu they might aswell put it to good use.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I am not bothered.

Hi all

And still not one can point to a single MP game with more than a handfull of entities that uses Ragdoll physics.

Not one.

Did any of you wonder why?

Kind Regards walker

points to Left 4 Dead 2. again.

MP game

more than a handful of entities

ragdoll effects

served with respect this time ;)

Edited May 19, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[MulleDK19 21]

-Ziggy-;1930052']I am not bothered.

points to Left 4 Dead 2. again.

MP game

more than a handful of entities

ragdoll effects

served with respect this time ;)

Left 4 Dead 2 does not synchronize ragdolls. They're completely client side. No ragdoll lands in the same location for any client.

Garry's Mod does, though.

[neokika 62]

Hi all

And still not one can point to a single MP game with more than a handfull of entities that uses Ragdoll physics.

Not one.

Did any of you wonder why?

Kind Regards walker

Bohemia Interactive just did it now?

Why is that so hard to belive? Are you contradicting BIS, and saying they are not capable, or current systems arent capable while they say it is?

_neo_

[nodunit 397]

If ragdoll physics were to come in I'd rather have it optional over an on at all times part of the game.

[enad 11]

Just stop complaining, ragdoll physics, if not overdone, can only add to the immersion of the ArmA series.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Left 4 Dead 2 does not synchronize ragdolls. They're completely client side. No ragdoll lands in the same location for any client.

Garry's Mod does, though.

no where does Walker describe synchronized effects.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Just stop complaining, ragdoll physics, if not overdone, can only add to the immersion of the ArmA series.

This.

Its only a step up I absolutely hate it when you shoot someone manning a static weapon or driving a vehicle, they teleport outside of it and then fall over dead its just plain..... Not NICE.........

Surely there would be a setting that would disable it server side if BIS feels like it would heavily affect PvP performance.

[ArmAriffic 10]

i think it should be optional, if enabled you can see them online other wise a pre-made animation

[MulleDK19 21]

-Ziggy-;1930092']no where does Walker describe synchronized effects.

75% of his post.

[-=seany=- 5]

Quite a reaction to this...

Have BIS even said we are getting ragdolls?

I voted yes because;

a. I know they can only be better than what we have now, which looks crap.

b. I know BIS will obviously make them so they don't look stupid/cost too many resource

c. How are they supposed to improve on things in the game engine if you wont even let them try? Have some faith.

[psycho0222 10]

Ragdoll would be great..but euphoria is beter

Edited May 20, 2011 by psycho0222

[Darky88 0]

The game was just announced and already there is so much flaming all around. We don't even know yet what the Ragdoll looks like live in action. Besides, where have you been the last 10 years? BIS always was careful with their new features, do you really think they'd slip this up? Think again. Hint: Ragdolls have weights for Bodyparts since a long time and don't have to fly 200 meters around in the air anymore, shocker!

Maybe you are understimating PhysX as PhysX actually is a very performant physics engine, and doesn't really put much hardship to the kind of hardware ArmA3 requires. You certainly are underestimating BIS abilities though, they know what they are doing.

Just have some faith in BIS and enjoy the added realism this brings :)

[TIMFUTTICUS 10]

I honestly would prefer to have the rag dolls over the poorly animated and motionless dead bodies

[Darky88 0]

I honestly would prefer to have the rag dolls over the poorly animated and motionless dead bodies

Maybe you mean motionless bodies different from what I'm about to say, but I'll give it a shot. It could be that the dead bodies might still be motionless. Normally when physical objects stopped moving they got frozen, or do so after a certain time that passed to make sure if they bug out (stuck inside something for example) they stop doing that and don't use any more performance. Unfortunately in most games I played they never allow the bodies to be moved again once they froze. Some games let you do it but most of times I get disappointed because I can't do it :(

Just saying that it could be the ragdoll of bodies (not other objects) is limited to deaths and then frozen in to remain where they are so that people can go back to them to pick up gear and stuff... it's BIS design choice and I'm sure it depends on if it makes any problems if they are moved again :)

We'll have to see, like i said in my other post we don't know what its like yet :) All I'm trying is to keep your expectation on moving dead corpses low (hmm, when I put it like that it sounds somehow sick anyway) :)

Edited May 20, 2011 by Darky88

[nodunit 397]

The game was just announced and already there is so much flaming all around.

Preeetty much the norm, ever since Arma1 was released there was always heavy discussion on how things looked. Silly things such as concerns over the friggen sky from early WIP shots like this.

http://www.usasquad.com/album/img.php?dir=Armed%20Assault&file=ArmA_hires_04.jpg&w=2

The community has always had this bad habit of over reacting.

Edited May 20, 2011 by NodUnit

[PTV-Jobo 820]

Preeetty much the norm, ever since Arma1 was released there was always heavy discussion on how things looked.....The community has always had this bad habit of over reacting.

Heh, yeah--wouldn't be a BIS game and community if there wasn't at least a handful of people pecking away at every little damn thing, even before the game is even done. Some people will never be happy with anything, even if handed 100% what they want on a silver platter. Even then, eventually they'll have a complaint against something like the style of the platter, the shine, how you presented it upon the platter, how long it took to present it, etc. Some people just have this uncanny ability to piss and moan over any and everything. :p

[walker 0]

-Ziggy-;1930092']no where does Walker describe synchronized effects.

Hi DirTyDeeDs

Options to answer in poll questions top of page

No I understand that it cannot be synchronised in MP

Sic.

My use of bold in the quoted text.

Also re read the So then you go for Client side physics. section in the original post of this thread.

Here have a read of this so you begin to have some idea of what it is we are talking about particularly the section on Synchronisation' date=' where the person tested the idea.

http://asgaard.co.uk/thesis/thesis.pdf

By the way I am willing to admit the center of gravity method described by some in this thread, has some merit however it will still lead to this very problematic situation:

1) Consider the situation for Client Adam that according to what he sees with Dead Client Bill ragdoll falls flat on his back, vertical axis (hands and feet) tangential to the LOS between Client Adam and Client Charlie. So client Adam chooses to hide behind it!

But for Charlie the ragdoll falls on its side with the vertical axis parallel to the LOS between Client Adam and Client Charlie. Thus according to client Charlie's view Adam is not behind cover but instead layed along the side of Dead Bill and an easy kill.

A) Client Adam accuses client Charlie of cheating. Where player Adam believes he is in cover behind the dead body of Bill, while player Charlie can clearly see Adam is not behind the the body.

B) And this is the Killer; now consider the collision detection synchronisation. On Client Adam an invisible force keeps kicking him away from the body of Client Bill which he is diligently taking cover behind. While for Client Charlie, Dead Client Bills legs keep keep leaping into the air and Client Adam keeps sliding backwards along the floor.

C) You partially turn off collision detection so that only a notional 1 foot core of body provides cover. Client Adam still keeps getting pushed towards smelling Dead Bill's ass by the unknown force but it is not as bad, err maybe. Client Charlie sees Client Adam crawl through Dead Bill's feet right up Dead Bill's ass then bounce out to the side where upon he shoots him.

D) Alternately you completely turn off collision detection in bodies, in which case, as we have decided to ditch real physics and replace it with magic; why not just instantly remove all dead bodies. Reductio ad absurdum.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 23, 2011 by walker
Sentence got transposed around in point B)

[instagoat 133]

I don´t mind the ragdolls. Sure, they´re silly, but nowadays I prefer them over the fixed anims Arma has used so far. I wouldn´t mind if they go with the old style anims again either, but this, I prefer for the sake of looks.

The only argument I find valid against this is that it may be difficult to implement in multiplayer. I think people know by now what my opinion on the hurr durr realismuh is destroyd argument is...

Cheers

Insta

[maddogx 13]

Hahaha, the options are just hilarious.

May aswell have been "Yes, I'm a dumbass!" or "No, I'm totally smart!". The title also isn't bad.

Made my day. Thanks, Walker!

Edited May 20, 2011 by MadDogX

[Tonmeister 14]

with ragdoll implemented i can already see hours of fun placing AI ontop of buildings.

[krazikilla 5]

I totally want ragdoll, mixed with real wounding effects.

But the ragdoll models should have weight, and dont "overdo" it.

Id say most of the time you get shot by small arms fire, you dont die immidiatly, so ragdoll should be there, but just if you really get a shot, which kills you right away.

Other there should be some animations or just bullet-hit effects, which drop you a bit.

EDIT*

Anyone knows mount and Blade?

Its a medival fighting game, and you can play on around 100 - 200 players on pretty small maps. Its damn intense and IT GOT Ragdoll.

Theres no Lag at all, even when 20 Dudes, get slaughtered right next to you. Btw. thers an option to set Radoll effects on: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 Bodies.

Edited May 20, 2011 by KrAziKilla

[Leon86 13]

Bodies fall when shot dead.

Just like ragdolls fall if you dont hold them up.

If bohemia does something raggdolly in their "revamped animation system" it'll probably be subtle, ragdoll physics doesnt mean your game will be like bulletstorm.

These kind of physics aren't that hard for a modern cpu, even rainbow six ravenshield had some kind of ragdoll-ish system, and that runs beautyfully on a pentium 4. Physics calculations are really easy to multithread and arma3 requires an amd quad or intel i5.

It doesn't have to cost bandwith either, if the server decides the input and the timestep the outcome will be the same for everyone.