Do you want Laaagdoll Physics in ArmA 3?

[walker 0]

To my eye, those animations don't look nearly as fluid as those we already have in Arma 2 (except for the death animations). It's odd - I really like TWI's products, but there's something about the company that makes me think their games would still smell of low-budget, no matter how much money they spent developing them...

Hi Richey79

I think it is bacause they simplified the ragdoll model in order to make it work in MP. So you end up with the Thunderbirds/Team America Supermarianation puppets look so typical of ragdoll games.

As I said before a game maker waves the "ragdoll physics wand" and the ragdoll crowd put on their blinkers.

Kind Regards walker

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi Richey79

I think it is bacause they simplified the ragdoll model in order to make it work in MP. So you end up with the Thunderbirds/Team America Supermarianation puppets look so typical of ragdoll games.

As I said before a game maker waves the "ragdoll physics wand" and the ragdoll crowd put on their blinkers.

Kind Regards walker

I think that clinches it. You're not following the same definition of ragdoll as everyone else. Ragdoll only applies to non-animated entities, like dead bodies and ropes. A moving entity is animated, not ragdoll.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Hi Richey79

I think it is bacause they simplified the ragdoll model in order to make it work in MP. So you end up with the Thunderbirds/Team America Supermarianation puppets look so typical of ragdoll games.

As I said before a game maker waves the "ragdoll physics wand" and the ragdoll crowd put on their blinkers.

Kind Regards walker

You put rose glasses on the current situation. You can assert any value to the mass of the object. If you hit it with a bullet, it will drop dead in its tracks, limbs might be affected more 'dramatically'.

You're worried about the wrong bloody thing - MP is not the issue, Single player is: you simulate both AI and physics, and that takes computing power.

[walker 0]

I'm a little confused on this point: are you sure you've understood what everyone means when they discuss ragdoll? Or are you using some other definition?

Hi DMarkwick

Tell me again the method you propose to impliment Ragdoll with?

Partial eg just death scenes?

Full eg doing all animation with Ragdoll Physics eg running walking opening doors etc?

I feel you need to do so as many people you may think are with you may not be so when you examine their arguments closely.

Kind Regards walker

[froggyluv 2136]

Hi Richey79

I think it is bacause they simplified the ragdoll model in order to make it work in MP. So you end up with the Thunderbirds/Team America Supermarianation puppets look so typical of ragdoll games.

As I said before a game maker waves the "ragdoll physics wand" and the ragdoll crowd put on their blinkers.

Kind Regards walker

Alternatives? You seem hellbent on status-quo but are you really happy with the fact that corpses hang suspended mid air because an inch of foot lay surfaced? Where is your myth-busters and quasi science to prove that can happen?

It's easy to say "Nein Nein Nein!!!' -but try offering something substantial up at least as a discussion point.

There was a time in PC gaming when the thought of a 3d gaming world with thousands of autonomous AI would have been laughable.

[maddogx 13]

Partial eg just death scenes?

I don't presume to speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure most people asking for ragdoll are talking about this. ^^

Death anims only.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi DMarkwick

Tell me again the method you propose to impliment Ragdoll with?

Partial eg just death scenes?

Just read your own thread :) no need for me to yet again retype all that stuff. I'd only copy & paste anyway.

Full eg doing all animation with Ragdoll Physics eg running walking opening doors etc?

I feel you need to do so as many people you may think are with you may not be so when you examine their arguments closely.

Nice try, but it's clearly you who are confused about ragdoll. Ragdoll, as discussed here on this forum, is the simulation of jointed models that have no other animation. That means ropes, towed vehicles, and dead bodies. Ragdoll is not implemented for walking running or opening doors. That's all standard animation stuff that we've enjoyed for years :)

[walker 0]

You put rose glasses on the current situation. You can assert any value to the mass of the object. If you hit it with a bullet, it will drop dead in its tracks, limbs might be affected more 'dramatically'.

You're worried about the wrong bloody thing - MP is not the issue, Single player is: you simulate both AI and physics, and that takes computing power.

Hi Iroquois Pliskin

I play ArmA primarily in MP as do many other ArmA players are you really saying BIS should stop making an MP game?

I know ArmA's animations are not perfect. There are too few of them, simply add additional animations so that the stock of death animations is larger and heck use Ragdoll in a virtual motion capture studio to create additional death animations.

The holding on to a building by your toe is a valid argument but the problem could be solved without the programming and network load expense of ragdoll, by doing a simple center of gravity test for corpses. Then moving then falling the corpse to the ground in a fallen corpse animation. Unsing that Ragdoll in a virtual motion capture studio. This means you do not waste game CPU on questionable Ragdoll eyecandy.

As to the one about dead bodies hanging in the sky that would not be solved by any of the Ragdoll implimentations so far done in MP games. And in fact is nothing to do with whether you impliment Ragdoll. It is caused by the lack of a sanity check on corpses. Do you realy want CPU time taken up on checking a corpse on the ground has fallen? I suppose you could flag all corpses in a bulding so that they can be sanity checked as part of a bulding destruction event, then just assume they were burried under the rubble and delete the corpse or physically put it under the rubble.

Kind Regards walker

[dysta 10]

If corpse can simulate more than rag-doll-ing, ESRB won't be happy.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Hi Iroquois Pliskin

I play ArmA primarily in MP as do many other ArmA players are you really saying BIS should stop making an MP game?

You've never played any MP games with ragdolls? BF2 BC2 being the latest example, albeit a console-limited one, that uses them online. I was implying that MP is not the problem, problem is single player with AI & physics - you either script the AI encounter ala COD, or limit physics. Although, both could be done without a problem, if I'm wrong.

The holding on to a building by your toe is a valid argument but the problem could be solved without the programming and network load expense of ragdoll.

Walker, walker... the network load is almost the same: server tracks the torso, client renders the penzi.

[walker 0]

...Ragdoll, as discussed here on this forum, is the simulation of jointed models that have no other animation. That means ropes, towed vehicles, and dead bodies. Ragdoll is not implemented for walking running or opening doors. That's all standard animation stuff that we've enjoyed for years :)

Hi DMarkwick

Nice to have you clarify that :)

And make it clear that generalised Ragdoll for human simulcra is out other than for death scenes. ArmA should accordingly retain its generalised animation system.

I have no problem with modeling ropes, towed vehicles and the like with a physics based model.

So we are now all clear that we are only disputing about Death animations using ragdoll.

Kind Regards walker

[dmarkwick 261]

I think you'll find that "we" already were ;)

[bangtail 0]

ROFL

/10 Chars

[walker 0]

Hi all

So we come back to my original post why have Ragdoll deaths when they will lead to laaag and desynch and any problems with the current ArmA death animations could be improved by just adding some more and a script to do a fall animation for a dead body and its removal where a building is later subject to a destruction event.

A far simpler solution than all the problems of ragdoll that no game has successfully implemented in MP.

Kind Regards walker

[neokika 62]

Hi all

So we come back to my original post why have Ragdoll deaths when they will lead to laaag and desynch and any problems with the current ArmA death animations could be improved by just adding some more and a script to do a fall animation for a dead body and its removal where a building is later subject to a destruction event.

A far simpler solution than all the problems of ragdoll that no game has successfully implemented in MP.

Kind Regards walker

Its weird reading you saying that, are you a physics developer? Any proof to what are you saying?

Do you already have Arma 3?

_neo_

[Flyweight 10]

Hi all

So we come back to my original post why have Ragdoll deaths when they will lead to laaag and desynch and any problems with the current ArmA death animations could be improved by just adding some more and a script to do a fall animation for a dead body and its removal where a building is later subject to a destruction event.

A far simpler solution than all the problems of ragdoll that no game has successfully implemented in MP.

Kind Regards walker

So you'd rather have corpses potentially clipped into surrounding ground/buildings/trees/models? Static animations can't handle things "getting in the way" of the animation...

Oh.. the evolution of this is ragdoll, which manipulates the model so you get a realistic death.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi all

So we come back to my original post why have Ragdoll deaths when they will lead to laaag and desynch and any problems with the current ArmA death animations could be improved by just adding some more and a script to do a fall animation for a dead body and its removal where a building is later subject to a destruction event.

A far simpler solution than all the problems of ragdoll that no game has successfully implemented in MP.

Kind Regards walker

*Sigh*

Its like I simply haven't bothered. Walker, I have several times adressed this exact thing. Please, if you insist on asking the same question several times, at least make the effort to address genuine solutions.

[Flogger23m 2]

RO1 had amazing death animations that added a lot to the immersion. Occasionally there would be lag errors. If they can add similar effects in ArmA 3 I would be happy. But I find the current death animations to be sufficient.

[SPC.Spets 21]

the ragdoll phisic never was correct in any game, I preffer the animations.

I dont want to see bodies flying everywhere once you throw a grenade, bodies stuck in the ceiling, or dead bodies bouncing as if they were possessed

Edited May 20, 2011 by SpetS15

[maturin 12]

I think thaaat Aaarmaaa three should definitely aaaddress this importaaant issue in aaan innovaaative waaay. Aaand in the meaaan time we could type like normaaal people.

[SgtBigRig 10]

pointless trolling. may as well ask if we want the game to be run in MSDOS..

[dunedain 48]

the ragdoll phisic never was correct in any game, I preffer the animations.

Well it has been done way better, that these few samples of animations which featured BIS products since I bought OFP 10 years ago, in some games in which realism does matter..

It's just that some fanboys just don't know much about video games other than OFP and still think BF2 is the sole example of how ragdoll is done..

Seriously this pathetic discussion is pointless, you only see the same arguments over and over again while 80% think they are irrevelant considered the gain ragdoll brings to the game experience but wait those same fanboys do think they are cleverer than those 80% anyway and thus won't stop preaching their good sermon over and over again.. Seriously just give it a rest.

Inb4 a 7-Feet long post of shaky arguments I already know like the back of my hand.

Edited May 20, 2011 by dunedain

[Flogger23m 2]

the ragdoll phisic never was correct in any game, I preffer the animations.

I dont want to see bodies flying everywhere once you throw a grenade, bodies stuck in the ceiling, or dead bodies bouncing as if they were possessed

I guess you never played RO. ;)

Bodies will only move if a grenade falls right next to them... and they don't fly. They get pushed over a little bit and get torn up with shrapnel holes all over. Getting shot just drops the player. Depending on where they are standing, shooting them in the back might make them fall over backwards.

Ragdolls have advanced a lot since CS:S. That being said, it is not very important to me.

[Leg 10]

I agree with this completely. If you can't do it yet, don't do it and make it into a lag fest. It's good enough having such a game, and all these people who have been spoiled by FPS franchises should realize as the thread creator said that real life isn't like hollywood. Lots of players of Arma2 forget the rambo style of gameplay introduced in OFP which was slowly lost by the slow progression towards things like 'ACE2 Realism Units', which I have seen have low quality players who only care about the realism and complain about many other things. Notably I'm not someone who can change the progression/change in a giant gaming community's thoughts as it happens, but as usual old seemed much better and new seems to be filled with spoiled princesses who want the FX and not concentrating on getting 'gritty better' with what they have. Come on, 3v1 in a forest, I'll snipe you guys favoring this close up while you complain about 'warping'. Ok, whatever. Basic physics: sure thing, but don't overwork it and make it need extreme processing power on everything.

[dale0404 5]

@Walker.

You are so close to being on my ignore list.

Mate, I am all for constructive argument and putting your point across I really am. But please do not embarrass yourself by doing it.

Do not take this as someone trolling because I do not do that. I love discussion as you can see by the amounts of times I have posted, What I do post is (mostly) valid statements and not some gobbledygook that someone makes up to try and save face.

Enough said.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Edited May 21, 2011 by dale0404
Apology