Stealth Kills?

[dysta 10]

PLA must be proud if stealth kill / hand-to-hand combat can prove useful in milsim game:

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showfull.php?photo=44254

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showfull.php?photo=44256

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showfull.php?photo=44377

(The last one is actually a police force, but that's still works.)

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

I dont see a issue with adding melee. Just a simple forward stab that reaches arm length and a stealth kill that takes a little time to do, but I think you must equip the knife similar to pistol from rifle etc. Maybe even making them charge up similar to hand grenades are so it takes a short while to do a actual instant kill stab. For balance maybe make you walk slower while charging the attack to prevent sprint stabs.

As for the kill animation/stealth kill on the back of a enemy there are slower games out there like Hitman series that show "none COD" knife kills etc are possible in games.

As for the usage, I could have used this 3 times today in a CF pvp battle.

Edited May 23, 2011 by JojoTheSlayer

[rangerpl 13]

I'd like to be able to kill a member of an enemy group without them instantly finding out about it (unless they see it).

And without them instantly locking on to my position and hunting me down.

[HyperU2 11]

I'd like to be able to kill a member of an enemy group without them instantly finding out about it (unless they see it).

And without them instantly locking on to my position and hunting me down.

Yeah, that would be even better than a knife.

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

I can think of certain situations where a bayonet or knife would be needed. Obviously you should have to selected it and actually take it out to use instead of just magically slashing, but like mentioned sometimes suppressed weapons are just not an option.

I would at least like to see bayonets if we can't have knives. Anyone who has fought in Helmand knows that there are times where bayonets get fixed. I've heard from a guy who actually has a no sh*t confirmed kill with his knife. They were doing some security patrol at night for some big op they were conducting, some Muj guy was hiding in a canal waiting for the patrol to walk down the road, well they were crossing that same canal and he was walking point. So he heard the AK's safety turn off, saw the guy in the water, and freaking jumped on him, headbutted him with his kevlar, grabbed his kabar off his flak and stabbed him like 30 times...

they have pictures of the body..

[Innomadic 10]

What is wrong with a knife exactly? Script some animated stealth kills? I mean it is too fiddly to be required to pull it out of your gear (using changing weapon in A2 as a reference) but no where is it necessary to revert to the CoD insta kill sweep.

The whole stealth kill system is based upon the AI not hearing your movement and raining hell down on you without so much as a whisper. The two are mutual, improved AI response, improved CQB handling.

[CommanderYuri 10]

Stealth would mean that you are able to quietly sneak up on the enemy. I hope that while doing so, your movement sounds wont simply switch off or are completely imperceptible for the AI. That would be simply unrealistic since only No.47 is able to do that. It sounds more like a campaign issue where you surprise sleeping AI or guys approaching your position without recognizing the nasty sniper in ghillie suit.

Okay, if you ask me, they could just insert the option to stealth kill when someone stands in front of you and for what reason ever did / does / does not want to see you.

[rye1 21]

So it should be affected by weight, footwear (maybe, I play too much Elder Scrolls lol), type of terrain, skill level of opponent, sound level (echo, loudness), speed, what kind of movement (e.g. crawling, crouching, standing), light level?

By the way people stating realism and how it is not used, it is taught is basic training in most countries to use the bayonet and simple techniques of hand-to-hand combat. In unconventional or elite units it is taught in more detail, this fits in with the A3 storyline. It may be a rare event but I just wanted to note that.

2:20. There are many documentaries, books, pdf's, websites out there about the topic.

Advanced combat and hand-to-hand training. Special Forces do learn about the useage of all kinds of weaponary, their game is warfare no matter the weapon. It is apart of unconventional and conventional forces around the world; Basic Training.

Basic training here in Australia, Britain and the US all go through bayonet training and similar.

As Arma 3 is based in a more unconventional attitude with a small SF team, combat divers then it might not be a bad idea. Though it should be refined to the wounding system, made friendly with AI scripts and look good! Nice smooth animations, no one strike kill. I cannot really think of a games with this except for Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell etc.

Try the book "Long Rifle" by Joe LeBleu. His grandfather was in the USSF and worked closely with Delta Force, they taught him so much about hand-to-hand combat and drilled into him to take a knife wherever he goes and how important it was.

Even though Joe LeBleu did not use a knife, he carried at a minimum of three on him when he toured Iraq and Afghanistan.

These points are good to note.

Also note: The somali pirate stabbed to death by a US Navy Seal, a Marine in Fallujah who used his knife on an insurgent, Rex Applegate and the Combatives series, a Gurkha who beheaded a Talibani with his kukri, among others!

I think the point is that melee combat has never been tried before with the Arma series and no one knows how it would come, I agree. If it was to be a feature then it must work properly (good animations, smooth gameplay, no throwing knives instant kill). A good thing to note in the Arma series is that it would be a rare event (PVP or COOP) so even if it was included it wouldn't annoy players to hell like the COD series.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Dont get it, what is thread expecting. A stealth button that says 'Ai not hear me now'.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Point is that ArmA3 should have an AI built with stealth attacks already in mind so the player has a chance to use stealth as a tactic rather than the mission designer using dodgy scripts.

[DerKonig 10]

Dont get it, what is thread expecting. A stealth button that says 'Ai not hear me now'.

No, I think what should be expected is that A3 should take a more holistic approach on stealth using stance, speed, terrain, lighting, distance from AI, AI's orientation, AI's skill level, etc. to create a stealth system.

[NoRailgunner 0]

"stealth kills" are too mainstream and overrated...

[dysta 10]

"stealth kills" are too mainstream and overrated...

And in ARMA 3 you won't use that too much for a long stealth event.

[max power 21]

No, I think what should be expected is that A3 should take a more holistic approach on stealth using stance, speed, terrain, lighting, distance from AI, AI's orientation, AI's skill level, etc. to create a stealth system.

That's how it works now.

[2nd ranger 282]

My favourite stealth kill ever is in MOH when that douche in the FDNY hat (and wearing sunglasses AT NIGHT) goes up behind a guy and stabs him when he has a perfectly good silenced weapon that he has been using all mission long.

What I'm saying is we need knives and FDNY hats.

[ProfTournesol 956]

My favourite stealth kill ever is in MOH when that douche in the FDNY hat (and wearing sunglasses AT NIGHT) goes up behind a guy and stabs him when he has a perfectly good silenced weapon that he has been using all mission long.

What I'm saying is we need knives and FDNY hats.

And FDNY is ?

[rye1 21]

My favourite stealth kill ever is in MOH when that douche in the FDNY hat (and wearing sunglasses AT NIGHT) goes up behind a guy and stabs him when he has a perfectly good silenced weapon that he has been using all mission long.

What I'm saying is we need knives and FDNY hats.

Lol, so melee and hand-to-hand combat has been demoted by that kind of culture - COD, films, tv shows, first person shooters. I would yet like to see a good system for hand-to-hand (including useage of knives) combat in the military simulator setting.

There were a few good games for this like Splinter Cell and Fight Night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvC0m7nYuK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNvgrCN-YmM

The useage of melee and that kind of weaponary would have to be dynamic. In PvP I could easily see it turning into more of a button pressing marathon, something Fight Night did great to counter.

[max power 21]

Lol, so melee and hand-to-hand combat has been demoted by that kind of culture - COD, films, tv shows, first person shooters. I would yet like to see a good system for hand-to-hand (including useage of knives) combat in the military simulator setting.

There were a few good games for this like Splinter Cell and Fight Night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvC0m7nYuK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNvgrCN-YmM

The useage of melee and that kind of weaponary would have to be dynamic. In PvP I could easily see it turning into more of a button pressing marathon, something Fight Night did great to counter.

Of course, Fight Night's whole schtick was boxing, and I can't remember the last time I flew a helicopter on a CAS mission in Splinter Cell. I wouldn't expect anything so complex if at all.

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

Why waste precious ammo, risk over-penetration, etc.

Suppressed weapons in case you haven't noticed, don't make you silent. What is you're not carrying subsonic loads? What if you're rocking a battle rifle like a Mk14 that would require you to cycle the action manually if you were to use subsonic ammo?

Get off your mil-sim high horse, what kind of logic is: "because COD features stealth kills, it shouldn't happen in Arma"

Hand to hand combat should be out, but bayonets and knife kills should be a part of the game. Especially if you're behind enemy lines, don't you want to save as much ammo as you can?

[rye1 21]

Get off your mil-sim high horse, what kind of logic is: "because COD features stealth kills, it shouldn't happen in Arma"

Who are you talking to? because no one mentioned that. I said COD demoted the view of hand-to-hand (use of knives) combat into something pathetic.

Mk14 isn't bolt action but I get your point there, nothing should be 100% silent as I stated a few posts back. Bayonets and knives are fine by me, hand-to-hand combat would be a next step up so if not in A3 then so be it. It's not just about saving ammo, over-penetration, it's also about security and stealth. Knives are used a lot, they are standard kit - especially in unconventional units like SF and combat divers, infact combat divers used to use knives only to protect other divers until underwater weaponary (amphibious rifles and pistols) came to shine, they are still used kind of as a back-up and there are many other uses (though not in game) for a knife than just killing. And it's still used as a primary choice when amphibious rifles/pistols aren't available or you have no escort with them.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Rye

[max power 21]

Mk14 isn't bolt action but I get your point there, nothing should be 100% silent as I stated a few posts back.

I don't know if you do. In case you didn't get his point, he was saying that realistically, a subsonic load won't cycle the action of a mk14. So, after every shot, you would have to recock it.

SvLWu-OQJno

[rye1 21]

Ah, I didn't read it properly. Thanks for pointing that out.

@TheHebrewHammer You'll still have the noise of your action, muzzle blast (though quieter) and the noise of the projectile impacting as stated in: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1934985&postcount=190. So nothing can be an 100% stealthy kill in terms of not making any noise but a stealth kill would be to make the minimal amount of noise without being caught doing the action. It would be more of the case of making AI friendly with it IMO.

[rye1 21]

"The combatants could smell each other’s breath. Hear each other grunt. Knives are the last resort when there is no time to change magazines on weapons and you are so close to each other." - http://www.sasspecialairservice.com/tora-bora.html

Good read.

[Goos 0]

I'm not talking about running around knifing people like COD. I'm talking about you or you and your squad want to infiltrate and enemy position and either don't have silenced weapons or constraints which make the need for you to use stealth. Where you can sneak up on enemy's and have an animation or action to perform a stealth kill.

Sometimes it seems as if the AI have eyeballs in a line around there head that enable them to see form all directions, make it near impossible to perform a proper stealth kill.

This is not only a cool feature, but adds immersion for smaller units and teams who need to work in the cover of silence.

I'd give my left nut for this feature. In short the majority of missions I make to play are night stealth missions and I sorely miss being able to creep up on someone to grab them and either blade them or choke hold them till they pass out. Melee stealth kills doesn't need to be how modern warfare portray it it is a valid feature that special forces employ for silent operations and I for one would love to see it in ArmA 3.

[eddie247 10]

I'm all for stealth kills. I wouldn't say the knife is the most efficient way of doing it but I would like to see a stealth melee attack.

Also something like a garotte (cheese wire),

and or a neck break (possibly skill induced/escapable by tapping a button or a particluar combo of keystrokes to apply sufficient force/escape).