Stealth Kills?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Agreed. I'd rather have no knife kill at all than a badly working knife kill.

If done right, the knife kill should only work when you approach an enemy from behind or in his flank. And you should aim at his throat/head.

And that sounds like it's hard to script and easy to become buggy.

I just can't understand this. You can harm someone by shooting him in the legs, thus you can stab him in the legs too, that's simple. You can harm someone by stabbing him from front or back or from wherever you want. It's just stupid to attack someone who's got a firearm from front, that's all. No scripting. No bug.

[Bas92 10]

I meant that an insta-kill should only work if you approach him from behind - etc.

I just don't think melee combat will work in ArmA. They could also use that money/time to improve other stuff. They could make ghillie suits actually matter, improve stealth gameplay and make the sound effects more realistic.

[Blackfox34 14]

Some of us do play this game to have fun. I find it fun to be able to simulate the military, with minimal consequences (i.e. Dying). It's fun to play a transport pilot or a special operator even if you may have a different role in the military in real life. Simulation can still be fun.

I agree with all your points. Why not just implement a knife as a weapon?

I mean if you are stupid enough to run around with it and up to any enemy who is looking right at you, then you should get shot anyways. Could just have it out...when you sneak to someone undetected you just either stab him in the throat or click on a stealth kill animation. If you stab and miss, well you deal with the consequences (alerting enemy, just wounding your assailant, etc)

[skooma 10]

This series always lacked proper stealth. If I shoot someone a kilometer off at night in the rain with a suppressed rifle everyone and their dog knows exactly where I am

[Ish 11]

Every solider since WW2 and perhaps earlier had a personal knife. For me, it's not about "i'll never use it anyway" it's about "i'll want the opportunity to use it if i want". Freedom of choice. I don't really get the CoD argument either.. CoD has guns to, should we skip them also? It's a stupid argument.

But on subject, i'd love for the AI not to see you when you're 800m away with a silenced sniper rifle first shot you take. It's just not very realistic.

[Hedo 10]

Freedom of choice.

With this kind of thinking you can go on and on and never have enough of features.

I'm not really against the idea, I just think there are a lot more important things BIS can focus on.

And if you are deciding on the prority of features, it is about "i'll never use it anyway".

[maturin 12]

This series always lacked proper stealth. If I shoot someone a kilometer off at night in the rain with a suppressed rifle everyone and their dog knows exactly where I am

No, they don't.

Implementing knives would be a whole lot of work for extraordinarily little payoff. You would completely perfect circumstances in order to pull off a stealth kill. Namely, a single enemy in the dark with his back turned. Otherwise his squad is just going to shoot you. A silenced M9 is quiet enough to have the same effect, and from a similar distance. :p

The only real value knives would add is in stupid usermade missions. And possibly zombie mods.

[ProfTournesol 956]

With this kind of thinking you can go on and on and never have enough of features.

With this kind of thinking we'll still be playing Castle Wolfenstein.

[Ish 11]

With this kind of thinking you can go on and on and never have enough of features.

I'm not really against the idea, I just think there are a lot more important things BIS can focus on.

And if you are deciding on the prority of features, it is about "i'll never use it anyway".

For one thing, if the AI is what it could be, it could be useful to have a knife. And secondly how much effort does it take to put a knife in game?

I agree though, that there are more important things.

[ProfTournesol 956]

And secondly how much effort does it take to put a knife in game?

Well, as Pufu stated, it depends on how complex you want the system to be. A simple system as it was (almost) possible in OFP requires no particular additional work, as it was taken away from the engine. Then the more features you add, the more work it'll take. For example the ability to counter the strike, or to play particular animations when hit by a knife. But not that much IMHO, as AI is already able to detect/not detect you from certain angle, certain stances, certain distances, making certain noises etc.

[Blackfox34 14]

There's a reason you insert miles away from the target or HALO jump - Stealth. What's the purpose of running all that distance if they AI is gonna go into a craze after the first shot of a silenced weapon or they can see you from 1000m away. It worked a little bit in OA because of the Takistani's lack of NVG and thermal. Stealth can still be improved.

A suppressor doesn't kill all the noise, it can still be heard. So if you are going to take out enemy's spread out in a relatively close proximity a knife could be a better option than a silenced pistol.

While that's probably not military quality it shows you have much noise still exists.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Knives? Not very useful considering how you typically never get close enough to use them in ArmA. You know, guns also work at close/point blank range, and I really don't think using a knife will make it any more stealthy than a suppressed pistol or simply smacking him across the head with the butt of your gun. Still, there doesn't seem like there'll be many situations where you'd be able to get close enough a guy unnoticed.

[Splintert 10]

How about a bow/crossbow? Those are silenced and ranged enough to be not totally useless. Not particularly military-like, but maybe the militia/civilian fighters could use them?

[maturin 12]

Could we stop with all the hyperbole?

The AI is completely oblivious at 800m or 1000m. All these people think the AI are psychic because they get spotted. You can't just continue lying around in the open like you're at a picnic, firing shots in succession, even if you have a suppressor. Once you have killed someone in a squad, eveyone else is going to start looking, and if you show them movement or fire another round, they will see you.

And knives aren't silent either. You have lunge at someone, grab them with all the body armor rustling and clanking together, force their hands away from weapons, force their chin up, slit their throat and then still pin the guy to prevent him from making noise as he slowly bleeds out, then lay him carefully down so he doesn't crash to the ground in a three-hundred pound rain of steel and kevlar.

Stealth means not getting close. Otherwise it's just combat. You can't do it alone. You have to take out the whole squad at once. Then the silencers will be quiet enough.

[darion101 10]

crossbow would be more reasonable than bow, but it might be way too old for ARMA 3, might have been nice in ARMA 2 though.

[PuFu 4600]

How about a bow/crossbow? Those are silenced and ranged enough to be not totally useless. Not particularly military-like, but maybe the militia/civilian fighters could use them?

how about you go back to the place you just came from?

[Ish 11]

Just putting it out there. I like to have a degree of freedom. Let me give you another, perhaps better example of what I mean. In A2 and AO, you could not carry a MG and a launcher. And while you normally don't in real life, whats to say there aren't situations where you'd need to pick one up, but the game wont allow it. ACE2 did, which i appreciate immensely.

[Hedo 10]

With this kind of thinking we'll still be playing Castle Wolfenstein.

I would gladly Return to Castle Wolfenstein. :D

Seriously, read the second part of my post. I'm not against new features, I just think this is pretty low priority.

[Blackfox34 14]

My aim is to have better stealth elements in arma because i think they are lacking. You don't have to agree with me, just my opinion. Stealth kills are a part of this.

Sure 95% of you kills may come from weapons, but having the option to do it if your virtual ass is on the line is what I'm asking for.

[maturin 12]

How about a bow/crossbow? Those are silenced and ranged enough to be not totally useless. Not particularly military-like, but maybe the militia/civilian fighters could use them?

lol

That's even better. Shoot the guy, watch him go running off into another room shouting "Ow-ow-ow-ow! I can't believe some motherfucker just shot me with a goddman arrow! What the fuck?!?"

Then if you're lucky, he realizes too late that it's in his aorta and he collapses.

My point, none of these weapons are particularly reliable or quiet in real life. ArmA can't model the complexities of the human response, therefore any implementation would either be realistically useless and a waste of resources, or highly arcade.

[Blackfox34 14]

Also PUFU, all you are doing is trolling this thread as well as the rest. Contribute something to the debate at least instead of insulting.

[Hedo 10]

How about a bow/crossbow? Those are silenced and ranged enough to be not totally useless. Not particularly military-like, but maybe the militia/civilian fighters could use them?

YEAH, we have a winner.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

YEAH, we have a winner.

A 330 FPS bow will ruin anyone's day. ;)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Also PUFU, all you are doing is trolling this thread as well as the rest. Contribute something to the debate at least instead of insulting.

Your supposed ignorance isn't exactly helping that. If he's trolling it's because you're giving him a reason to...

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------

That's even better. Shoot the guy, watch him go running off into another room shouting "Ow-ow-ow-ow! I can't believe some motherfucker just shot me with a goddman arrow! What the fuck?!?"

I would actually be quite amused to see that happen. :cool: Some people don't seem to realize that just because the weapon is silent/quiet, it doesn't mean the kill will be.

[Blackfox34 14]

I was defending the dude, who suggested the bow idea. He has a right to his opinion. While it seems stupid, it could have been a cool feature for the civ side. They already had this in the John Rambo mod/missons and it was a fun.

I don't know of any units that use them IRL, but I could see a Chernarus Civ using a bow. Maybe not in the mediterranean though as ARMA 3 is set.