Sekra 10 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) So I've seen many discussions in various places about BIKI improvements. I think in every discussion most of the people want to see the BIKI improved in many aspects. So this thread is meant to be as a sort of notepad or similar for all your ideas that you would like to see done to the BIKI. With the massive amount of information moving it to a new site would be a daunting task which is why I think there should first be discussion about if we could upgrade the current system to better server the community. Write about what you feel is wrong with the BIKI currently even if you don't have any ideas how to fix them. The main thing is to identify the key problems of why "everyone" feels like the BIKI should be improved. Write about ideas how to imporove the BIKI. I would also like to ask you guys not to make this a flaming / argument thread and shoot down or argue about other peoples ideas. If someone feels like the BIKI should have more pink ponies in the background it is their right to feel that way. The purpose of this thread is to hear everyones wishes and ideas, brainstorm, and not to have arguments about them. I would also like to emphasize that EVERYONES input is welcome! Doesn't matter if you found the BIKI or started scripting or making addons yesterday or you have been doing it for 10 years now, if you find the BIKI frustrating in some way let us know! Edited January 5, 2011 by Sekra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loki 1 Posted January 5, 2011 good idea! better examples and more demo missions for complex script commands. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Defunkt 431 Posted January 5, 2011 I actually find the Biki really comprehensive and pretty easy to use. As with most wiki's (I guess they all use the same software package) the search function is a bit dim but then a Google site search, i.e.... "model config" site:community.bistudio.com ...usually does the job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeMeSiS 11 Posted January 5, 2011 I would really enjoy a better search function, there is a huge amount of information but i find it quite hard to navigate to it even when i know its there somewhere. If i dont know its there i need to randomly stumble upon it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMERY 10 Posted January 5, 2011 anything to make it easier would be great :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jagheterjan 10 Posted January 5, 2011 I'd love to see the 3ds max SuperShader viewport shader plugin (mentioned here for instance) finally going live. Failing that, I'd like to see the RVMAT shaders and corresponding texture maps explained to greater detail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demonized 20 Posted January 5, 2011 id like to see improvements on the search function, searching for sentences in the description and not only keywords, this will be a great help for newer scripters. Ex: move all units into passenger seats - will direct you to a foreach example. For this to work we would ofc need way more examples updated to reflect todays game. But overall im very happy with current biki. combined with BI forums and google and youll always find something somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rübe 127 Posted January 5, 2011 There's nothing wrong with the biki and if you still wanna improve it, well, then there is only one thing one can do: participate. Something is missing? Another thing could be a lot better? Well, then head over there, login and make it a better place. And that's it. I don't want to sound rude, but there is no point in discussing what's missing and what not. Nothing is going to be done this way. But I encourage everyone to actually go there and create a new site for a missing topic, even if your input/knowledge is rather low. But once that topic is open, other's may add to it. Heck, even if you know nothing about something, why not create a site for that topic, whithout answering anything. Just go on and maybe someone else will complete it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W0lle 1048 Posted January 5, 2011 There's nothing wrong with the biki and if you still wanna improve it, well, then there is only one thing one can do: participate. Exactly. Everyone can add code samples and demo missions to the Biki articles and help to improve it. After all, that's the Idea behind it. But of course it's always easier to wait until someone does the job. ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rexehuk 16 Posted January 5, 2011 I'm working on a new INDEX / layout now... Thanks to T_D for supplying the tree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4599 Posted January 6, 2011 as wolle said, there is nothing wrong with the biki contents. the only thing is not working properly is the search function. Everything else is community knowledge base Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sekra 10 Posted January 6, 2011 Well the thing is that things will hopefully get in motion to do stuff and this is your chance to say what you think. You think its fine? Ok. But theres a lot of people out there who think its not fine. A lot. And we will be doing something about it and it would be a nice change to have some support before starting to throw in the buckets of shit, thank you. After all I'm not asking you to do it am I? This is a chance of those people who would like to see things changed but want someone else to do the job to voice out their ideas and opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loki 1 Posted January 6, 2011 There's nothing wrong with the biki. FPDR the thread was started by those that have taken the initiative to update... addTo.. whatever.. all we are asking is what can be done better.. not omg.. its awesome.. you suck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t_d 47 Posted January 6, 2011 There's nothing wrong with the biki and if you still wanna improve it, well, then there is only one thing one can do: participate. Of course we are participating. We know that the BIKI will not improve by staring at it :rolleyes: We just want to plan our efforts a bit and give others a chance to say what could be done. Don't really get the attitude here. What do you think we do? Are there any fears we should know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rübe 127 Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Of course we are participating. We know that the BIKI will not improve by staring at it :rolleyes: We just want to plan our efforts a bit and give others a chance to say what could be done. Don't really get the attitude here. What do you think we do? Are there any fears we should know? My point is this: there is no need to "plan" a wiki. A wiki isn't run by a planning committee, developing awesome five-year plans... Anyone is free to participate and such participation doesn't need to be planned ahead. If you feel like adding something here or there... just go on and do it. And that's it. But hey, I'm fine if you guys wanna meta-babble a bit in here about how things should be run and whats missing and what not... I won't annoy you anymore in this very topic. Promised. ;) edit, btw.: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/User:R%C3%BCbe Edited January 6, 2011 by ruebe Loki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loki 1 Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I won't annoy you anymore in this very topic.Promised. cool http://community.bistudio.com/wiki?title=Special%3AListusers&group=sysop&username= because T_D's name is in there and yours isn't.... nor are any of the other people talking shat... Edited January 6, 2011 by Loki grammar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W0lle 1048 Posted January 6, 2011 Would you all stop bashing each other here? Thanks. This thread is about how the Biki can be improved, not who is who. It's a fact that the Biki lives from participation like any other Wiki and not just waiting until someone does something. Nothing more ruebe wanted to say. Of course things like the search function only admins can do. But that's no reason to tell others to shut up because you don't like their opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loki 1 Posted January 6, 2011 Would you all stop bashing each other here? Thanks.This thread is about how the Biki can be improved, not who is who. It's a fact that the Biki lives from participation like any other Wiki and not just waiting until someone does something. Nothing more ruebe wanted to say. Of course things like the search function only admins can do. But that's no reason to tell others to shut up because you don't like their opinion. aye.. there is a skype channel set up for all of us getting prepared to get the biki updated. skype:?chat&blob=p6y-ZqXaqTmpfBUUn3E4SyQFTQkDvUjWsXPsLvEd_-NfiGp3g65rQ-xjAORk9aVB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hellfire257 3 Posted January 6, 2011 Everything else is community knowledge base Sadly that is the issue. That knowledge remains locked away from new people. One of the goals of this is to make it easily obtainable. The Wiki should be a place of learning, not of endless confusing circles for newbies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuFu 4599 Posted January 6, 2011 Sadly that is the issue. That knowledge remains locked away from new people. One of the goals of this is to make it easily obtainable. The Wiki should be a place of learning, not of endless confusing circles for newbies. ok, have it your way then. how would you change the existing wiki content so that it is easier accesible by newbies as well as people who are already familiar with it? by creating a sort of template? by moving aroung and rearanging existing information? or...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loki 1 Posted January 7, 2011 ok, have it your way then. how would you change the existing wiki content so that it is easier accesible by newbies as well as people who are already familiar with it?by creating a sort of template? by moving aroung and rearanging existing information? or...? __________________ FPDR what part of: there is a skype channel set up for all of us getting prepared to get the biki updated. did you miss? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr burns 131 Posted January 7, 2011 FPDRthe thread was started by those that have taken the initiative to update... addTo.. whatever.. all we are asking is what can be done better.. not omg.. its awesome.. you suck! Biki is awesome for anyone who knows the exact biki_term_name for any item/function/command/list he/she's searching for. Other than that it´s shite :rolleyes: aye.. there is a skype channel set up for all of us getting prepared to get the biki updated. And then again, i´m not browsing the biki to find out that i need to nag real-time people in order to get existing relevant information from an unusable search algorhythm :rolleyes: Thumbs up for the Biki as is and how users make it be, but other than that it´s crap. What do i need information for that in 4 of 5 cases i cannot find *shrugs* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rexehuk 16 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I love how people are arguing against: A more logical structure More complex database of scripting functions WITH: - Simple Examples - Complex Examples - Demo Missions And more text explaining what the function is, rather than the very short and abstract summary which we have to deal with now. It is utterly ignorent to say "Information is in the community base"... do you know how scattered the information is on the forum? Thousands of seperate packets of useful coding snippets that do not get read by people who are new. Incorporating history into the BIKI is essential, this is a learning community and people find new ways to do things every day, that should be documented. Oh.. on top of this, you don't have to do anything but sit back while others do it. Stay out of this thread unless you have suggestions to add, this is a suggestions forum not "Why the fk are you wasting your time on this for free and for my benefit" forum. If you wish to join the skype channel go ahead, there is a lot of content to work out. Edited January 7, 2011 by rexehuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
galzohar 31 Posted January 7, 2011 Other than some good suggestions already made, another thing that could help is organizing the "scripting commands by functionality" page. Currently a few things could use re-organization and mostly some (or many?) commands are simply missing. And of course anything related to how things work in multiplayer (locality etc) needs much more explaining on each commands' page. There's only so much people can add from their trial and error - Some things need to be documented by BIS based simply on how they're supposed and intended to work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarlGustaffa 4 Posted January 7, 2011 I think searching is the thing that gets me the most, and lack or proper "what links here" database. Not sure how it works, but would be nice if "what links here" could be automatically updated once in a while. Being a heavy user (sorry, not much of a giver...) of Biki, I often know about something that a search should find, because I've seen it before. But it won't. So I have to guess which articles might have liked to it. Annoying, but I'm kinda used to it. But not friendly towards new users. Example of bad search: fireAt finds nothing, despite command fireAtTarget. There are better examples, but it was the one I remembered right now. The last thing is our own responsibility, the content. The new user looking for examples will often find examples from OFP that doesn't work anymore, or have conditions that isn't explained as a comment in the example. Some examples of this: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/isEngineOn Doesn't explain multiplayer and locality issues. http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/drawLine Probably doesn't do what most expects. One have to navigate to drawEllipse's talk page to get some clues. http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/createTeam Still not sure what this is supposed to do. Links to Team_Member datatype, but... ...just to name a few... So, it's an extremely useful tool, once you know how to use it. But many examples are shown as a script example, where it should be possible to use it as a copy & paste example into an init string or trigger. So the beginner will get frustrated when he copies something into a trigger, and the editor won't even accept the entry - so it's back to biki or tutorials to figure out why. Maybe the idea is learning it the hard way will make it easier to remember, I don't know, but I remember my first attempts was filled with frustrations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites