Do you think it's necessary for BIS providing lockable binPBO?

[dm 9]

all you will have accomplished is locking out those who simply want to learn from your stuff rather than steal it

No no no no no.

"All" we will have accomplished is making those people who want to learn/edit/whatever have to ask first. And thats no bad thing (see RKSL's sig)

The majority of casual assholes will no longer be able to rip the work, and only the hardcore pirates would be able to. Surely you must agree its better to have only a handful of people with the ability to steal the work, than it is to have 100's of 1000's able to?

Not a bad outcome imho.

[PuFu 4600]

oh come one zipper!

Stop comparing piracy with selling models! Yes, in theory it is still stealing, but i doubt i will ever see 3d models ripped from game X or from person Y on torrents. Those are SOLD by a guy to one/few website(s), not shared out for free.

I don't see why there's such a fuss about it, especially since no one ever said locking a pbo should be mandatory. Why is having the option to do it so fucking bad for so many ppl out here? You prefer less addons as a whole? If you don't want to use it, or all in all it is just me, DM, Rock and Max Power using it (seems we are just a few that supports it), why would you care?

I'm sorry to say, but addon makers are fewer by the day, not the other way around. I am yet to see the so called self-students actually making stuff. The few that appeared in the last year have asked around on the forums, poked around on the biki and sent PMs, just like I did/do, or rock, max or whoever else.

Edited October 29, 2010 by PuFu

[Zipper5 74]

No no no no no.

"All" we will have accomplished is making those people who want to learn/edit/whatever have to ask first. And thats no bad thing (see RKSL's sig)

Sure, okay, but that does happen already. If someone releases work that has content in it taken from someone else without authorization the community always "boycotts" it. But I guess with this method it would at least force them to ask, unless they use the methods that may appear to go around the protection. Then we just do as we always do - "boycott" them until they give proof of permission.

I think it's too much of a generalization to think that the decrease in addon makers is because of people stealing their content, pufu. While I agree it certainly doesn't help, I think the lack of interest from the community in mods outside of commonly used ones (ACE2, as an example), or the greater difficulty with creating addons of Arma 2 standards, contribute to it as well. With OFP it was actually pretty damn easy to make addons, even I with my complete lack of knowledge back then was able to make basic ones that at least looked on-par with BIS'. :p

[5133p39 16]

"All" we will have accomplished is making those people who want to learn/edit/whatever have to ask first. And thats no bad thing (see RKSL's sig)

But it may not be a good thing either - having to ask about every silly thing, if all you'd have to do is to open the addon and see it right away?

Somebody already wrote this - you would have to send PM, wait until the person gets back from weekend/vacation to send you reply (if he would be still active at all, and if he would even bother with your "silly" question, etc.).

I really don't see what is wrong in poking around in someone elses addon, instead of wasting their time with what they may even see as stupid questions.

I allways prefer people who try to look first, and ask second, than the other way around.

Anyway, i think there has been already said everything there is to say about this subject.

There is no point trying to convince anyone about anything, so let's just wait what will come from this.

[[frl]myke 14]

Is a modellers work worth more than a scripters or missionmakers work? Not at all. The problem lies in the fact that a modellers work has a financial value for a thief, it can be illegally sold. Didn't heard happen anything similar with scripts or missions.

Would a protection mechanism completely stop abuse?

Nope, but it would reduce it since for the "average dumbass" it becomes much harder to get the desired data. Thats the idea behind any sort of protection: Airbags reduces the danger of serious injuries (or even death), Door locks makes it harder to break in (which makes it unworth to even try it), file protection keeps the scriptkiddies away.

That said, in the end it is easier to track and sue 1 thief that took your work than 100.

And the argument about learning from other peoples work...well, i think nowadays it is not that valid anymore. For everydays scripting/modelling/missionmaking problems there are enough freely available scripts/models/missions around to cover that area. Everything that goes beyond that, i really think that looking at other peoples work will you get less far in much more time than just asking the creator for help regarding your problem.

I can only speak for myself, thinking about the F-16 i'm working on. If someone is interested in some of the systems/solutions implemented there, it takes a good time for someone who's not familiar with my code until he understood all aspects of it. Hell, even myself i have to resort/re-read things often if i leave it for a few days.

So just asking for help/examples will bring you much further in shorter time.

[dm 9]

If the question is so silly you would be able to see the answer in the sample models.

The only time you would even need to ask an addon maker about something is either a "tips and tricks" kind of question, or something about their specific systems (for example, some of the fancy stuff RKSL does in his addons).

[PuFu 4600]

I think it's too much of a generalization to think that the decrease in addon makers is because of people stealing their content, pufu. While I agree it certainly doesn't help, I think the lack of interest from the community in mods outside of commonly used ones (ACE2, as an example), or the greater difficulty with creating addons of Arma 2 standards, contribute to it as well.

I never said it is the only reason. But it is one of the reasons.

ACE is not the mother of all problems. The real reason for the decreased interest in "common" addons is based on the fact that, even though BI implemented a way to see which addons are running on X server, it didn't implemented an automated downloader. And most ppl (admins and users) are too lazy to bother implementing/using yoma, even though there is no rocket science in it

With OFP it was actually pretty damn easy to make addons, even I with my complete lack of knowledge back then was able to make basic ones that at least looked on-par with BIS'. :p

The level or professionalism needed to make an addon has increased from OFP to A1, then from A1 to A2. And it will continue to happen.

That is why models nowadays have a higher commercial value than they did back in OFP day, and they require a lot of time spent with it.

But hey, no one is forcing addon creation. It is not easy process, and it needs to be understood. Most of the kids nowadays want instant gratification. and for that it is easier to use someone elses work, then bother learning a new thing yourself

Edited October 29, 2010 by PuFu

[Zipper5 74]

ACE is not the mother of all problems.

Agreed, I don't jump on that bandwagon. I was simply using it as an example.

The real reason for the decreased interest in "common" addons is based on the fact that, even though BI implemented a way to see which addons are running on X server, it didn't implemented an automated downloader. And most ppl (admins and users) are too lazy to bother implementing/using yoma, even though there is no rocket science in it

I think this is the most unfortunate thing to hit the community. It never used to be an issue back in OFP, but suddenly everyone wants it handed to them on a silver platter, or not at all. I have no idea why that is, but it's damn unfortunate for the addon making and MP aspects of the community. :(

[rksl-rock 1301]

But it may not be a good thing either - having to ask about every silly thing, if all you'd have to do is to open the addon and see it right away?

Somebody already wrote this - you would have to send PM, wait until the person gets back from weekend/vacation to send you reply (if he would be still active at all, and if he would even bother with your "silly" question, etc.).

I really don't see what is wrong in poking around in someone elses addon, instead of wasting their time with what they may even see as stupid questions.

I allways prefer people who try to look first, and ask second, than the other way around.

Anyway, i think there has been already said everything there is to say about this subject.

There is no point trying to convince anyone about anything, so let's just wait what will come from this.

Sorry but that is such a lame excuse. You are basically saying: "Im too lazy to write a PM." I really don't think your method shows any respect for the people making content. And I doubt it would win you many friends.

That's me done for a while. The excuses for not supporting the addon makers right to secure their own work are just paper thin and I have other places to be.

For the record:

• I think those people that write decryption tools should be banned form the community and their nuts cut off because all they do it enable theft. Same goes for the cock that wrote <censored>.
  
• I believe 99% of the community are honest (ish) and would support genuine addon/script/mission makers. However there are people in this community that don't care for anyone else and will do whatever they want. This minority are damaging an already dwindling community even further.
  
• I think anything that reduces the ease of theft is a good thing. There is never a good reason for theft.
  
• I would like BIS to give anyone the option to protect their work.
  

Right that's me for 5 days I'm off to go get some ROV time.

Edited November 6, 2010 by W0lle

[5133p39 16]

Sorry but that is such a lame excuse. You are basically saying: "Im too lazy to write a PM." I really don't think your method shows any respect for the people making content. And I doubt it would win you many friends.

No, you only read it that way, because it fits your arguments.

On the contrary - the lazy aproach is to ask first before trying to find the answer by yourself.

And it wasn't meant as an excuse for anything, it is only stating a fact, a fact that such protection will have this negative side effect - and nobody with logical reasoning could sincerely deny that.

Peeking inside another's addons may not be your way, but there are those who do this from time to time, and there is nothing impolite about it, and i am merely saying that you would deny them this choice - of course they are not entitled to this choice by any law or rule, but to me it seems just contraproductive to deny them this option and trade it for feeble gain of your false sense of security.

Anyway you are right about one thing - i do not respect people making content, instead i do respect ALL people no matter what they make,

but this discussion is not about you or me, so please, let's refrain from such remarks in future (i promise i will try).

[[aps]gnat 28]

I really don't see what is wrong in poking around in someone elses addon, instead of wasting their time with what they may even see as stupid questions.

I allways prefer people who try to look first, and ask second, than the other way around.

Agree.

If this was a community full of PAYWARE, I'd probably disagree.

But this community only gets better and bigger by people learning and adding content.

The sooner they learn, the sooner content arrives.

I've said it before, I invite people to poke around in my addons.

So long as its just poking (or even experimenting on your own machine), as far as I'm concerned theres no harm and just potential benefit.

But I'd still support anyone using a BIS supplied protector, for those who haven't been able to adjust to the open community environment.

[kklownboy 43]

CarlG has a good point. +5 to him.

Can see the desire for model makers to "protect" their work. But why make them special? Is my work less valuable merely due to the fact it's based on hand-crafted scripts vs the result of some CAD system?

...

yes it is much more important. Like 1000% more. Scripts are not even in the same class. To even do MLODs takes 1000$ of software.

[Baff1 0]

I think one of the first and most obvious steps for people seeking to protect their work, is not to publish it on the internet for free.

It's not rocket science really.

Either you are up for giving it away to other people or you aren't. If you aren't, no problem. If you are.. Great! You rock as a person.

[Daniel 0]

The "Why should addon makers get more protection that everyone else?" argument is a little childish. It's pretty obvious that they are more at risk of having their work exploited. I'm all for giving addon makers the option to lock their work if they so choose to. There will still be helpful community members, forums and tutorials to help new modders.

[TRexian 0]

To even do MLODs takes 1000$ of software.

Or Blender, which is free. :) Or O2 personal edition (just ask Gnat), which is free. :)

As for decent high poly mods not being published for fear of theft... where did you think some of the Big old names went? Some quit, some took jobs with BIA, other went underground because they were pissed off with thieving scumbags.

Their choice.

Yet, the community still thrives....

Community content was being exploited/converted for use by the US military as a low cost precursor/alternative to VBS1. And that was not the first or the last time. I've been working in professional simulation dev for a while now and I regularly see community made content for various games appearing in commercial simulations and occasionally games.

I will grant you that the crossover between community A2 mods and VBS2 is awkward. On the one hand, BI says it allows mods as long as there is no charge for them (or at least implies it), and on the other, it touts the presence of all these mods as a reason for gov'ts to buy VBS2. But, that's at the risk of derailing this.

(Even stuff from Falcon 4/5 gets ripped for commercial gain.)

hehe

My friend, I know far more about that situation than I care to admit. And, it is apples and oranges!

Here's another thing that makes all this discussion rather moot. BI has had the power for years to encrypt the PBOs, that's how VBS2 works. But they haven't. And, I hope they don't.

[nuxil 2]

yes it is much more important. Like 1000% more. Scripts are not even in the same class. To even do MLODs takes 1000$ of software.

not entiery true. there are free modeling software outhere aswell.

[Sekra 10]

I definitely think that pbo's should have the option to lock them. Since many of the actual modders who make their stuff from scratch like RKSL-Rock, Soul Assassin and others want this and the people who don't want are mostly people who have nothing to do with modding its quite obvious this option should be included. For those who claim that it will kill the community I quite contrarily think that this is the only thing that will save the modding scene of arma 2 in the long run. The reasons are quite obvious and simple:

a) more great model makers will take interest in providing models to a format that is more secure (unless some dimwits again decide it's best to kill the community by releasing ripping tools)

b) what happened to the simple fact that you can always ASK how to do something? There really is no reason to rip someones model for "learning purposes" when you could simply ask them how to do stuff! I know for a fact that a lot of the modders will gladly share their knowledge and help with your addons if you simply ask them. p.s. demanding is not asking!

c) the internet if full of decent (free) tutorials to teach you to do pretty much anything.

d) this would be OPTIONAL. not every addon has to be locked if you don't want to lock it.

e) if you think you can learn something from looking at the models, you can look at them ingame too. only way you will learn to be a great modeller is to make models. and make more. and then make some more again. and after you get fed up in doing them make a couple more.

Or if you truly feel that all free content should be open and available for everyone to unpack then BIS should provide a medium for the addon makers to sell their addons to the community and then by commercial rights they would be more protected and should be lockable. I know I would pay for the best community made stuff since they are often even of better quality than BIS makes.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Sekra

[Fox '09 14]

yes it is much more important. Like 1000% more. Scripts are not even in the same class. To even do MLODs takes 1000$ of software.

who cares what you made it with , it's worth what you think it's worth, not how much the program you made it in

[Evil_Echo 11]

yes it is much more important. Like 1000% more. Scripts are not even in the same class. To even do MLODs takes 1000$ of software.

Scripts are not in the same class? Tell ya what, remove ACE and ACEX_SM and play a few missions with ACEX only - see how well that works out. Yank out the RKSL support mods and try to fly that beautiful Eurofighter without them.

About those cost figures. You want to pay for the technical reference books I've bought to ensure my coding for various weapon systems are accurate? $80-120 a pop, Bucko. And the degrees in computer science and physics did not come cheap either. I've dished out a lot of cash along the way just to hand out code for free, not to mention my time documenting and providing technical support. Would you prefer I charge the going rate for that level of work? It's $115/hr.

Let's come up with a real way to protect models, scripts, etc. from theft...

All addons would be released in a new archive format - call it PBO2. This format is both digitally signed and encrypted using a public/private key technology. Everything is managed by BIS only, no external authority would be allowed to distribute these files - similar to Apple's app store. Developers would have to upload their work to BIS and after approval BIS would rebundle it into the new format. The PBO2 would only contain the contact information needed to get the addon. The real data stays with BIS.

To use this, ArmA would open a secure connection to a BIS server to get the keys to verify/unlock the PBO2 file and then use it to initiate a download of addon data into memory only. Of course you'd need internet access to run any ArmA session, but Blizzard has already gone that direction with Starcraft 2, so you have precedent.

If that seems extreme, that's the price to truly hinder theft. Anything less is a bad joke that'll barely slow the bad people down. Naturally the proposed method will have it's costs. Oh well...

[max power 21]

I'm with Rock here on his assessment of the counter arguments. There are a couple that are especially weak. Unfortunately, they are the most vehemently regurgitated.

1. This is the internet and it's impossible to stop piracy therefore increasing security is futile.

How this logical assessment is made by otherwise intelligent people is beyond me. It has been countered by reductio ad absurdum arguments (by DM and myself), but prevails for some reason. Perhaps the answer hasn't been clear enough. I always thought taking a statement to its absurd extent was a good illustration of poor reasoning but maybe we need some special help today. So let's take a closer look.

The statement says that because we can't stop something, we shouldn't try to reduce it. It seems to neglect the fact that any reduction is a good thing.

2. It's too much trouble to ask. What if someone doesn't get back to you for a couple of days. Think about how much of my time that would waste!

:/ If your only problem solving strategy is to rip into an addon and copy someone elses's solution I don't know if there is any hope for you. In the time you're waiting for someone else to reply to your email, you can research the problem, ask questions on the forum. Moreover, if you find someone to answer your questions, you have just established a dialogue with other community members who may want to answer more questions or offer more pointers. There are many resources available to you. Not the least of these options is to find an addon or mission with a license that permits educational use or derivative works (such as 5133p39's. Thanks for volunteering, 5133p39).

No, i wouldn't feel differently - i already stated i don't like it and i do not defend such behaviour (selling stolen work).

But when it comes to someone (ab)using my ArmA creations (not that i created anything worth mentioning), even without giving credits (which is against rules and i am not defending that either), i couldn't care less, because that is why i am creating those things - so that people can use them.

Then you would be a good example of the kind of person that would choose not to lock his work. This sort of validates the argument that the option to lock your work wouldn't necessarily shut down the community. At least the mute people out there who are above asking for permission would be able to download and tear apart your work for their benefit.

No, you only read it that way, because it fits your arguments. On the contrary - the lazy aproach is to ask first before trying to find the answer by yourself.

Well then! I hope people in the future get to be the ultimate in hard working people by having to ask sometimes first before finding the answer for themselves! ... or maybe just use unlocked addons or BIS examples to do their work...

And it wasn't meant as an excuse for anything, it is only stating a fact, a fact that such protection will have this negative side effect - and nobody with logical reasoning could sincerely deny that.

Peeking inside another's addons may not be your way, but there are those who do this from time to time, and there is nothing impolite about it, and i am merely saying that you would deny them this choice - of course they are not entitled to this choice by any law or rule, but to me it seems just contraproductive to deny them this option and trade it for feeble gain of your false sense of security.

The concerns of having locked, stolen content is valid and quite an intelligent response. This is more than I can say for the rest of the arguments.

Anyway you are right about one thing - i do not respect people making content, instead i do respect ALL people no matter what they make...

No, you don't. If you did, you would be arguing from license based standpoint. If the license says files must not be altered, it means they must not be unbinned. If it says no derivative works, that means that no nut, bolt, code snippet, or pixel can be used in another addon or mission. However, peeking isn't peeking, is it? People peek with the ctrl-c keys.

[Zipper5 74]

What becomes reduced once people find the means to crack it? It would be money (if BIS were to involve itself) and time spent on something that, in the long-run, would become redundant to those who's mind is set on stealing peoples' work, especially if the aforementioned means were to be publicly distributed.

I ask you this: how will you react if this new, hypothetical system is put into play, and yet you still see your creations appear on these websites despite making use of it?

[max power 21]

I don't see how this isn't answered by 'any reduction is a good reduction'. Maybe pseudo mathematics would help?

The absolute number of addons poached is a function of the number of people poaching, the time it takes, and the time spent. By making it harder for people to poach, you reduce the number of poachers by some number. By imposing a new limit that must be circumvented, you stop all unwanted poaching for a certain amount of time. This all leads to a reduction in the number of addons poached, which is a good thing.

[Zipper5 74]

But what reduction would actually occur? Are you talking about short-term reduction? Because in the long-run, if the methods and means appear and circulate, the reduction, if there was any at all to begin with, will become redundant, don't you think?

[max power 21]

But what reduction would actually occur? Are you talking about short-term reduction? Because in the long-run, if the methods and means appear and circulate, the reduction, if there was any at all to begin with, will become redundant, don't you think?

I think when you say short term you mean rate reduction. I'm talking about reduction in number.

Also, if you encrypt data, it is legally sealed, unlike binarization. Therefore, the development of decrypting tools is actually illegal. Therefore, developing and using these tools is a criminal act. Therefore, there is a risk involved and less people will choose to take that route.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

But mostly its because it means they cant make their own personal tweaks to other peoples hard work :j: )

The smiley put on there makes it sound like that's a bad thing if people were able to. Real example:

* Missions is my trade. Missions require bug hunting and looking stuff up (debug, errors) in rpt.

* Sounds are extremely important to me. So I have found an addon for that that suits me/us very well. However, it's an eternally ongoing project currently with a tonne of problems. No, I can't wait, I need it fixed yesterday to prevent rpt spamming - a file I use a lot. I've also supplied material for it in case he wants to use it, but I'm not a modder so I have no plans of releasing it as a mod. I have no intentions of becoming a sound modder - too much work. But hell yeah I'm going to fix the one I like - add bits from this mod, something else from another mod, use volume definitions from a third - I mean who cares?

* I don't want to be bothered asking for permissions. That "on vacation" argument is actually valid. I asked for something a long time ago to include a certain effect in mission, I got the yes after quite some time (he was busy), and since I haven't heard anything. And I hate having to "send reminders" or having to ask again.

* Hard work != Error free work.

You REALLY REALLY REALLY do NOT need to look at anyones addons to learn how to make addons yourself. Everything you need to know is in the wiki and the sample models.

Right ;) I'm sorry but there is a lot more to modding than model and vehicle config. But I see where the shoe is pressing - it's the reluctance to share knowledge. It's all becoming rivalry, one mod being better than the other etc. Just check out how ECS was stripped completely for carriage returns, in an attempt to make it unreadable - worst mess I ever saw. Not impossible to fix (if I could at the time, anyone can). It obviously had nothing to do with preventing it from being used commercially. And I surely don't think it was done to help us learn from it. Being capable of making it readable, I learned a lot from it.

If you want to know something specific about someones addon fucking well ask them about it. Everyone that is willing to put up with the bullshit from the spoiled brats in this "community" will be more than willing to answer genuine questions from other addon makers.

I'm always looking for answers yesterday. If you can wait months for an answer, fine. I can't. I could point you to numerous threads where I ask question I'm sure many knows the answer to, but are left unanswered. By poking around in mods I've been able to find some answers myself.

Maybe because their work is not being sold by other people on other sites?

Nice turn. One moment it's about "don't poke around in my mod without permission", the next it is "due commercial theft" :o

Someone somewhere will be able to defeat your home security (i.e. door locks) so should you bother locking your door?

If you add better protection, then you drastically reduce the number of assholes capable of stealing your work and selling it. That is the point.

"Here, add this super lock. Nobody will get in or out, not even yourself except on saturdays". All I'm saying is that sometimes the bad weights heavier than the good. Like Starforce. It's a pretty hefty protection scheme (or was, don't know where it stands today). Unfortunately it also had this (never acknowledged, but I've experienced it myself) bad habit of destroying hardware. Was it worth it in the end?

There is such a huge sense of self-entitlement coming from addon makers recently. Is there a particular reason why we do not see the same coming from mission makers, script makers, etc.? What is putting you guys above the rest of those contributing to the community?

Well said. And I agree. And as I said, modding covers more than a model. I don't care it model files are protected, other than it can be used for bad as well. We can steal from any game, then protecting it and claiming ownership. Why are our interest greater than those of others? Ref the deer from Oblivion or chopper from HL2 I posted earlier. Why is protecting my work, as a hobbyist, more important than protecting Bethesda's or Valve's work which actually is commercial? I'm sure BIS isn't ecstatic about having their models appear in other games either. I'm glad everything isn't protected. Makes the world a much happier place. Allows me to do crazy things. Fun things. Common decency / professional courtesy prevents me from releasing it. Going all Metallica on that 1% of bad apples sounds to me like bad business - you need popularity too. I know I'm not buying games anymore that isn't mod (and I guess, also theft) friendly. Gaming it doesn't give me pleasure. Modding it does.

But it may not be a good thing either - having to ask about every silly thing, if all you'd have to do is to open the addon and see it right away?

Somebody already wrote this - you would have to send PM, wait until the person gets back from weekend/vacation to send you reply (if he would be still active at all, and if he would even bother with your "silly" question, etc.).

I really don't see what is wrong in poking around in someone elses addon, instead of wasting their time with what they may even see as stupid questions.

I allways prefer people who try to look first, and ask second, than the other way around.

Precisely. Couldn't agree more. The stuff I'm being asked permission about is just plain nuts. Like, a five liner event handler code? I mean, wtf is going on? Sure, give me credits if that's so important to you, I couldn't care less. Sometimes even better not to get that credit, so you're not the one to blame, hehe...

Myke;1778307']Is a modellers work worth more than a scripters or missionmakers work? Not at all. The problem lies in the fact that a modellers work has a financial value for a thief' date=' it can be illegally sold.[/quote']

That's the argument being used over and over. But if you read, you'll see that it's really about "don't poke around".

Sorry but that is such a lame excuse. You are basically saying: "Im too lazy to write a PM." I really don't think your method shows any respect for the people making content. And I doubt it would win you many friends.

Although not directed at me, my answer is (on the protection of mod level, again, nothing to do with models in particular): No, I'm not too lazy to write a PM. I am however in too much of a hurry to wait for a reply or for the mod to get fixed. Don't use the respect card, it's not about that, and I think you know it. Most of us "poke around" for source of information, messing with it for fun, or for own personal or clan use. There will always be bad apples around "stealing stuff" on a grand scale for the sake of, I don't know, easy fame or something. And there will be "mishaps", where one modders sense of fair use differs from another one.

For the record:

• I think those people that write decryption tools should be banned form the community and their nuts cut off because all they do it enable theft. Same goes for the cock that wrote <censored>.
  
• I believe 99% of the community are honest (ish) and would support genuine addon/script/mission makers. However there are people in this community that don't care for anyone else and will do whatever they want. This minority are damaging an already dwindling community even further.
  
• I think anything that reduces the ease of theft is a good thing. There is never a good reason for theft.
  
• I would like BIS to give anyone the option to protect their work.
  

Right that's me for 5 days I'm off to go get some ROV time.

* What decryption tools? Thieves get a rather rough treatment around here, despite intent being good which seems to be completely disregarded.

* Disagree. If you put protection on pbo's (again, I'm not talking about models and commercial interests) to protect it from those 1% bad apples, you're also denying it from the 99% honest (ish) people and just causing a lot of frustrations by doing so. Imho, not worth it.

Have fun. Guess I can't ask you for permission to add an XEH to your config for our weekend event. Now I'll just have to do without that permission. Good thing it isn't protected, that would really ruin the event... Just kidding ;)

Edited November 6, 2010 by W0lle