CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[jw custom 56]

Operative;2005784']The fact it share it's name with a previous game doesn't desqualify OFP2/3 as individual games. Everybody that played OFP and ARMA tries it in a biased way. You can't deny it.

I bought DR because it sounded and looked nice but it turned out to be a boring poor looking console shooter missing most of the interesting features they claimed it would have.... so DR kinda fucked itself.

Operative;2005784']It's a game on it's own. Also' date=' everyone has personal opinions. Can you say that if some one that never played a tactical shooter/milsim/whatever and then play the CM OFPs, he will not like it? It may be fun, but it's a different game at a different time. You can, aswell, argue and say that CM should have kept OFP's roots, but this doesn't make, at all, a game become bad.

[/quote']

You are right, people who have never played a computer game before might enjoy it. It's like when the tv got invented there was like 1 channel and 1 program..... a lot of people liked that program!!!!!!!

[metalcraze 290]

CM just changed the focus of OFP, and now some people like it while others do not, but most people here are so biased by their experiences with ArmA and ARMA2 that they can't look at current OFP titles without bringing the differences in both series that determine what's fun and what's not in a partial way.

The truth is OFP2 and OFP3 are simply not good games.

OFP CWC or not.

[Cyper 18]

Operative;2005498']Opinions and more opinions. You can't argue against the fact that some people (some that never played OFP) may like OFP2 and 3. It's an opinion. You may say that in your opinion the series is degrading' date=' getting worse or whatever, but some people may still think it's fun.

Most people I know think ARMA is overcomplicated and boring. It's their opinion.

Each one may find the so expected fun in differents aspects of games, be it corridor-style shooter or sandbox-style.

[b']CM just changed the focus of OFP, and now some people like it while others do not, but most people here are so biased by their experiences with ArmA and ARMA2 that they can't look at current OFP titles without bringing the differences in both series that determine what's fun and what's not in a partial way.[/b]

First off, I'd like to add if you're starting to develop on a sequel to any game most people expect the sequel to be just that - a sequel. Codemasters knew that, so they marketed the game as a sequel to the extremely popular Operation Flashpoint: Cold war crisis - Exactly as Mark Turosz said in an interview. That's why there were turning Dragon Rising into a 'combat simulation' experience.

As we all know, Dragon Rising sold 1.2 million copies worldwide, and according to Sion Lenton Dragon Rising didn't ''fail'', but it did. Because they had told loads of bullshit about the game, talking about crap that was not even in the game, and giving people impression that it would be a real sequel to OFP. In the end, it was just a half-baked game, with community members such as Templar that could create more advanced, fun, intresting stuff in forms of missions and such than the actual Dev crew. That pretty much indicates how lousy Sion Lenton's crew are. On top off all, they didn't give any support to Dragon Rising either.

Since they failed so hard with the 'combat simulation' in Dragon Rising, and the whole game in overall, they probably implemented words about how simulation is a dirty word in the flashpoint series, simulation is boring etc. in order to cater the mainstream audience. I bet Sion though Dragon Rising failed because of the simulation.

However, they obviously didn't understand that people would get irretated if they removed everything that the flashpoint series is accociated with; map editor, modding, non-scripted missions etcetc. At the same time, Adam bragged about how much they listened to their community in one of the red river interviews, and said that red river had a massive re-play value since you could change classes in the middle of the game.

Their way of doing business is pathetic. The way the tell lies, mislead, drop support, sell broken products - and even charge money for lousy DLCs, and the way they give away infraction, banns, shadowbanns to people before Red River's release at their official forums because they complained about the game. Some thing are so incredible stupid that I cannot understand it.

Unfortunately, I'll have to say that I believe that some people simply expected Red River to be worse than complete rubbish. So they accept it how it is today. And that's the whole problem; If people accept low standard products, that's what the gaming companies, or any company, will give them, because they buy it.

Luckily, that's not the case for red river since it was a fail in sales aswell. It sold just over 100,000 copies in EU so that's great. Hopefully we won't see another flashpoint game from Codemaster's.

When it comes to games in overall I am not biased at all. I play all kind of games; arma, gta, postal 2, far cry, the sims, and the list goes on.

It's completely irrelevant what the game would be called right now. The fact that it's called Operation Flashpoint doesn't make it bad, It makes it worse. It could be called anything - I would still consider it as the worst game that my computerscreen ever have seen. And my TV for that sake, If I had it on console.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Cyper

[-GR-Operative 10]

DR could've stood up on its own as a fairly average game if it didn't have the Operation Flashpoint name.

It attracted so much hatred from BIS fans because it was such an obvious attempt to try and ride on the success of OFP:CWC by claiming to be a sequel.

This is what I'm talking about. If released under other name it would probably, standing in it's own, have some more sucess.

Also, pointing, I'm no CM of DR/RR fanboy. In fact, those games are not fun in my opinion, but I know some people might like them for what they are, not what their name implies.

Edited August 18, 2011 by [GR]Operative

[Innomadic 10]

The whole name thing isn't unique to OFP. Gearbox are having their own community issues, especially when Furious Four was announced. Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon are other examples of the backlash when a name that used to denote quality is used to promote a watered down console game.

[NielsS 10]

Unfortunately, I'll have to say that I believe that some people simply expected Red River to be worse than complete rubbish. So they accept it how it is today. And that's the whole problem; If people accept low standard products, that's what the gaming companies, or any company, will give them, because they buy it.

Why do you think COD MW2 did so well besides the fact it was a sub-standard POS. Because Activision/IW know that people will buy it simply because of the name.

If CM's OFP games where simply called Dragon rising and Red river without laying the emphasis on the OFP name the sales figures would be different but even then the fact would be that DR is an OK game and RR a very bad one.

[JdB 151]

Using a name associated with exceptional quality for a sub-par product only seems to alienate customers, the trick may work once, but after that the "franchise" is usually finished. Everyone turns on it, for RR even the journalists that have a huge interest in remaining on speaking terms with the publishers, the former fans point out the con to others, who in turn tell others etc. CoD and BF don't have that problem as they were never exceptional to begin with, IW and DICE are the Michael Bay of gaming.

Read an interview with some management guy from Activision about BF vs CoD, the whole interview was about sales figures and market shares (and this was a gaming section of a regular newssite, not a financial newspaper), he even said that it didn't matter which game was actually better. That tells someone thinking of buying either of these products all they need to know about the quality and longevity that they can expect to miss.

Edited August 19, 2011 by JdB

[NielsS 10]

Yeah, i fear for the Battlefield 2 community. I have a feeling DICE is going to f*ck them over with Battlefield 3 just to compete with that arcade console crap called COD MW3.:(:mad:

[Baff1 0]

Unfortunately, I'll have to say that I believe that some people simply expected Red River to be worse than complete rubbish. So they accept it how it is today. And that's the whole problem; If people accept low standard products, that's what the gaming companies, or any company, will give them, because they buy it.

Here is the rub.

Like everyone else here I expected Red River to be low quality rubbish.

But it wasn't. It was a very polished and enjoyable product.

DR, while a lot more stale in terms of gameplay was also a very polished product that had surprised me with it's quality and level of functionality.

I was thinking... that a bunch of sad console noobs/racing car game manufacturers would not be able to produce a game even as polished as OpF was (or rather wasn't) all those years ago, especially given the very small development time schedule.

And that without all those decades of experience BIS have chalked up on the ArmA series that they woulds suck making an extensive open world etc. That it's console pre-requisites would make for an enviroment ultimately too small and nerfy and specifically and critically .... too laggy.

But they didn't.

They made an action title that worked fine.

The sequel was better than the first.

Bloody good show for a factory product. Not half bad for a console port.

And the part that I thought they would have real trouble with, the lag, since BIS still lags even after allthis time optimising and is nithign like as limited by console hardware... didn't lag at all.

As far as I'm concerned, they have cracked it. They can now just concentrate on the story telling aspects or the PvP... or pretty much go anywhere in terms of shooter gameplay.

They could make a Battlefield type game, a Crysis type game a tunnel run shooter, a COD, a Flashpoint.

Seriously. Bloody good result for a load of car game people.

I still realise that it is not ArmA and that anything that isn't ArmA is an unforgiveable crime to Arma fanboys, and I realise that anything that uses the OpF name and isn't Opf is going to take a flaming from the purists.

I mean lets face it, ArmA isn't OpF either and even that regularly takes a flaming for not living up to OpF also.

So DR and RR were never going to satisfy those kinds of people. Pretty much their voices are quite ignorable for me.

For them it was "fail" even before they saw it and all they are looking for is new ways to write off something that they had never given a chance. Their judgement has very little to do with the quality of the game itself and very much to do with their own attitudes.

As someone said a couple of threads up Ghost Recon and R6 got the same treatment when they continued the franchise past the origninal developments.

I was one of those fanboys at the time for whom all this was unforgiveable.

I've been there.

I know where they are coming from, but I learnt that lesson with GR and R6. I've come through it. I've corrected my attitude now and I'm not willing to let what could have been spoil for me what actually is.

DR gets a 6 or 7 out of ten from me where I was expecting to give it a 4 or 5 out of ten before I played it, and RR gets a 7or 8 out of ten where I was expecting to give it a 5 or 6 before I played it.

Each one has pleasantly surprised me and the second in particular I actually think is quite good. Compare it to say on of the Delta force games. Games which I bought all of and enjoyed all of but never got fanatacial about. It's much better than all of them. it's a solid war shooter in my opinion. Recommendable to all war fans except the ArmA trolls.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Baff1

[-GR-Operative 10]

[...]

Well said mate. Fanboyism and hype doesn't work with me either.

OFP2 and 3 are, after all, individual games (as any other), do things better than many titles and are hated here just because of the name and the console versions.

[Cyper 18]

Here is the rub.

Like everyone else here I expected Red River to be low quality rubbish.

But it wasn't. It was a very polished and enjoyable product.

DR, while a lot more stale in terms of gameplay was also a very polished product that had surprised me with it's quality and level of functionality.

I was thinking... that a bunch of sad console noobs/racing car game manufacturers would not be able to produce a game even as polished as OpF was (or rather wasn't) all those years ago, especially given the very small development time schedule.

And that without all those decades of experience BIS have chalked up on the ArmA series that they woulds suck making an extensive open world etc. That it's console pre-requisites would make for an enviroment ultimately too small and nerfy and specifically and critically .... too laggy.

But they didn't.

They made an action title that worked fine.

The sequel was better than the first.

Bloody good show for a factory product. Not half bad for a console port.

And the part that I thought they would have real trouble with, the lag, since BIS still lags even after allthis time optimising and is nithign like as limited by console hardware... didn't lag at all.

As far as I'm concerned, they have cracked it. They can now just concentrate on the story telling aspects or the PvP... or pretty much go anywhere in terms of shooter gameplay.

They could make a Battlefield type game, a Crysis type game a tunnel run shooter, a COD, a Flashpoint.

Seriously. Bloody good result for a load of car game people.

I still realise that it is not ArmA and that anything that isn't ArmA is an unforgiveable crime to Arma fanboys, and I realise that anything that uses the OpF name and isn't Opf is going to take a flaming from the purists.

I mean lets face it, ArmA isn't OpF either and even that regularly takes a flaming for not living up to OpF also.

So DR and RR were never going to satisfy those kinds of people. Pretty much their voices are quite ignorable for me.

For them it was "fail" even before they saw it and all they are looking for is new ways to write off something that they had never given a chance. Their judgement has very little to do with the quality of the game itself and very much to do with their own attitudes.

As someone said a couple of threads up Ghost Recon and R6 got the same treatment when they continued the franchise past the origninal developments.

I was one of those fanboys at the time for whom all this was unforgiveable.

I've been there.

I know where they are coming from, but I learnt that lesson with GR and R6. I've come through it. I've corrected my attitude now and I'm not willing to let what could have been spoil for me what actually is.

DR gets a 6 or 7 out of ten from me where I was expecting to give it a 4 or 5 out of ten before I played it, and RR gets a 7or 8 out of ten where I was expecting to give it a 5 or 6 before I played it.

Each one has pleasantly surprised me and the second in particular I actually think is quite good. Compare it to say on of the Delta force games. Games which I bought all of and enjoyed all of but never got fanatacial about. It's much better than all of them. it's a solid war shooter in my opinion. Recommendable to all war fans except the ArmA trolls.

But it wasn't. It was a very polished and enjoyable product.

DR, while a lot more stale in terms of gameplay was also a very polished product that had surprised me with it's quality and level of functionality.

In my opinion Red River is low quality rubbish despite the fact that I haven't played the game. Why would I play the game? I didn't like DR, and I wouldn't like Red River more, because It's less of what I want.

When a gaming company has to tell lies in order to make people instrested about the product that pretty much tells it all.

In my opinion DR was not polished either. The characters were unintresting, multiplayer laggy and unstable, few maps, no dedicated servers, very poor mission design, very poor DLCs such as the Island Tour, incredible bad AI that sometimes had super vision and could see through walls, and sometimes they were acting like idiots, and sometimes you had to shot them various times in the head order to kill. The mission editor was restricted, and the story was. what was it about now agian? I'd say never mind, it wasn't much of a story. It didn't even have more than a few cutscenes in the whole game. On top of all they gave up all the support for the game a few months after it was released.

I'd say exactly the same thing whenever the game was called OFP or not. Due to the fact that Codemasters were telling lies to people that makes it all worse. They didn't just managed to create a watered down crap game, but they also told straight out lies to people, in order to make them intrested, and of course claiming it was the official sequel.

I do agree with you that a OFP probably never will be created agian at least not for a very long time, neither from BIS or from someone else.

Personally, as I said before, It's not the name itself alone that makes Codemasters flashpoint series, or whatever we call it, a bad game. I am personally very open to all kinds of games and not stuck with arma in any way. As a matter of fact, I've just gotten into the arma community.

When I bought Dragon Rising I did it because it was called Operation Flashpoint. Because I remembered that name and that I've played a game called Ofp a long time ago. So I bought the game. I played about 60% of the story and then that was it. I registered at the officials forums, and there, I realized that this game actually didn't have the same developers like the first one. So the fact that I saw the game as rubbish was simply due to the fact that I considered it as rubbish.

My expectations were high from the start, not the other way around. I didn't even know that ArmA existed when I bought dragon rising either. I didn't know it was diffrent developers.

I would give DR 5/10 and Red River 3/10. Because in my opinions sequels should improve and not be worse for every game.

When it comes to developers that drop support, and tell lies to people, censor posts, give infractions and even shadowbann people because they're not happy with their products, I'd say that I rather not see those people in the gaming industry at all. They shouldn't exist in any company at all. I dream about IGN and gamespot giving Codemaster's OFP series 3/10 just because of that. Sion Lenton and his team deserve no more than, excuse me - a shovel of shit in their face. Because the only business that I accept is ethical business. Not business built on lies.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that IF Codemasters polished the game more, and if they actually at least showed that they cared about the community, I would respect them more. But they don't. The dev tracker at their officials forums for instance is dead despite loads of complaints and problems regarding red river. I bet they've lost their whole fanbase and I doubt we'll see any other flashpoint game from Codemasters. At least for a long time.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Cyper

[theblessedpig 10]

Baff1 if you seriously think that DR and RR were polished games, then you have:

a)VERY VERY VERY LOW expectations

b) never played a different game

It isn't just about the game, it's also about the codem*sters stance in all this. If you hated on their games in their forums just like you hate on the arma community here, you would already be banned from their forums.

And for calling me a troll - at least I don't kiss Lenton's feet for every half finished product he releases. I wonder why you still visit these forums. I am sure the codem*sters forums are in desperate need of fanboys right now. I am sure they had a shortage of them ever since DR came out.

Edited August 21, 2011 by TheBlessedPig

[solidsnake2384 10]

Emphasis on the VERY LOW!

[Tonci87 163]

I was waoting for the

/sarcasm

while readings baffs post, but he seriously believes in that rubbish he writes.

I'm shocked.

[b0b 10]

You only have to have a look at the traffic in their forums to gage the popularity or RR. At best you have a handful of, well not fanboys but ppl who semi liked the game. There is hardly anything positive contained in those forums.

Baff1 you may have to concede on this one, RR, although you may have liked it was and IS a complete flop, especially when compared to DR sales.

In the forums they are just waiting for codies to perform the last rights and drop support. Many requests have been made for info, all ignored, apparently there is info on the way from the top, we will see if they drop support.

IMHO CM are a diabolical company.

[-GR-Operative 10]

HYPE doesn't define what is good and what is not ;)

[Cyper 18]

Lol.

Just noticed this on my YT channel.

I don't know where the statics in the video comes from but it certainly doesn't look good for CM if it's accurate. It looks really terrible..and I guess sion lentons saying that ''People vote with their wallets'' fits into this perfectly.

If this is true, what is the chance that another flashpoint games from CM will be released? Or any other game from the current dev at all.

[hellfire257 3]

Baff's posts, at least 90% of the time, disagree with the community's general consensus. Now I may be wrong, but I think that is one large symptom of a troll.

[4 IN 1 0]

No, it just makes him feel very very special.:p

[-GR-Operative 10]

Baff's posts, at least 90% of the time, disagree with the community's general consensus. Now I may be wrong, but I think that is one large symptom of a troll.

No, that's because 90% of the time the community speaks with fanboyism and elitism :eek:

It may surprise some people, but there are other good games out there.

[theblessedpig 10]

Operative;2008774']...other good games out there.

...other good games out...

other good

What is this even? Name one! Or thou shalt burn in the eternal fires of doom!

[jw custom 56]

Operative;2008774']

It may surprise some people' date=' but there are other good games out there.[/quote']

We are talking about DR/RR, not every other game. Read around the off topic forum and you will see that people here actually enjoy other games and game types but they want quality not crap-o-shit.

[dmarkwick 261]

I discovered Minecraft on Friday. Goodbye August & September :)

[maddogx 13]

I discovered Minecraft on Friday. Goodbye August & September :)

Epic adventure update 1.8 coming out in early September. Goodby rest of your life. (And mine.) ;)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Operative;2008774']No' date=' that's because 90% of the time the community speaks with fanboyism and elitism :eek:

[/quote']

Isn't that trolling ?