CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[JdB 151]

It also depends on what you would define as restrictive. CoD is restrictive in that it blocks off every other way so all you end up with is a corridor. It's a coridor, but at least it makes sense, it's self-explanatory why you can't go there (can't run through a 3m high pile of rubble). RR does it by showing open areas, but an insanely small tether, like running into an invisible high voltage electric fence. I am personally more annoyed by open gameworlds that aren't really open.

[ben_s 11]

The tether/boundry will be there to stop the player wandering off so far that the ground the Ai and objectives are on are not rendered, and problems occur like the AI getting stuck in terrian as it gets re-rendered as you move back into your AO.

I would guess this would be to consoles low memory - not allowing them to save the data for all AI's as you move about the island; to despawn/respawn them, in memory.

A flaw that was uncovered in DR when you remove the "tether" in COOP games.

As for RR itself, I got to play it earlier. It's more 'fun' than DR in one sense, but alot more boring in another. The game isn't so bland, you've got XP and classes to let you try new things and play differently.

But there's too little content, and the content is so restricted and rather lacking, It's not worth it without a mission editor to keep content there.

I mean, There's 4 FTE Modes, Last Stand, Rolling Thunder, CSAR and Combat Sweep. Each with 2 missions.

That's a campaign (that is rather - lacking from what i've seen so far), and 8 FTE missions. IIRC you have to 'unlock' 4 of them, so when you startup the game. You have 5 missions to chose from.

4 of the FTE's, and the Campaign (as you need to start from Mission1, obviously).

Each one would give you a small ammount of play time (maybe, 20/30 minutes per FTE). But that's not going to last you months awaiting for DLC ... if DLC ever comes, Remembering Dragon Rising ..

[froggyluv 2136]

I don't know why people thing a game is "tactical" and "difficult" when it has realistic recoil or doesn't have CoD-style perks. In a real tactical game, you assess your intel, plan an approach and execute the plan. The funnest part is when your plan goes to s*** because then you'll have to improvise and find a way out

I agree and a well thought out plan that pays off is pretty satisfying as well.

RR does it by showing open areas, but an insanely small tether, like running into an invisible high voltage electric fence

It seems to be cruelly messing with the player "look at all of that beautiful, albeit strange landscape (unfortunately, they recreated the wrong planet) that you daren't even think about exploring". From what I saw, the action going on out there in No-Mans land wasn't even remotely realistic or exciting -just a few tanks trying to navigate the surface of the moon.

The tether/boundry will be there to stop the player wandering off so far that the ground the Ai and objectives are on are not rendered, and problems occur like the AI getting stuck in terrian as it gets re-rendered as you move back into your AO.

That first mission where your asked to defend convoy - I moved maybe 30-40M towards the enemy "spawn house" -it cant handle THAT?

Edited April 25, 2011 by froggyluv

[Heatseeker 0]

PC gamer didnt like Red River.

45/100? Ouch..

I didnt like the review, the guy just bashed the game focussing mostly on the bad a.i. and bad dialogue, i think he should have distributed the bashing more even betwean all other bad things.

No versus multiplayer, no vehicles, no editor and no freedom?

[4 IN 1 0]

my favorite quote from Knox is " do you know what a select a fire is bitch-tits?"

You acturally buy into those Knox Bullshit?:j:

[ricbar89 0]

I would guess this would be to consoles low memory - not allowing them to save the data for all AI's as you move about the island; to despawn/respawn them, in memory.

A flaw that was uncovered in DR when you remove the "tether" in COOP games.

This is actually the fault of EGO engine. It cannot render more then one location at a time. It has a history of this.

It was the reason CM gave for F1 2010 when people asked why they cant watch the other cars on the track (remember the whole are the races real fiasco), EGO cant do it. It has to render one location around the player, and nothing more.

Hence why everyone is kept in the same area in coop or were forced into a small box in pvp.

[ben_s 11]

.. Isn't that what I said ricbar, it's not rendering them if you walk off. And since the consoles memory is low, it can't just save the Ai's location to despawn/respawn them as you walk in/out of the AO ..

[ricbar89 0]

.. Isn't that what I said ricbar, it's not rendering them if you walk off. And since the consoles memory is low, it can't just save the Ai's location to despawn/respawn them as you walk in/out of the AO ..

Its nothing to do with what its played on, PC or console its the engine that cant do it. And it not just about saving the AI location or something else, its a whole lot more complex.

So no its not really what you said.

[ben_s 11]

Its nothing to do with what its played on, PC or console its the engine that cant do it. And it not just about saving the AI location or something else, its a whole lot more complex.

So no its not really what you said.

My 'reasoning' was in 2 parts. The reason wasn't the fact it had low memory, that's just the reason why they never attempted a work around.

The game only draws around the player, hence the tether. Once removed, you can see the Ai standing on everly reducing terrian in DR. An obvious flaw in EGO tech. Since the game streams around the player, you can't have the player wandering off out of the AO whilst the AI are still in the AO. Or you get the Ai standing on non-rendered (and persumably, non-physics based) ground. And as you wander back, and that terrain gets streamed and rendered again. The AI would be stuck in terrian and probably have all manner of glitches/problems.

obviously, one way to overcome this would be to despawn/resapwn AI as you move about the island. (much like the ACM module does). However, to do this in a campaign you would have to save the state, and location of all AI's as you despawn them. Obviously, this would be stored in memory or via save files.

Hence the problem with the workaround, the console system (the one the game is designed for), Would have too much strain putting all that information into memory or do the constant I/O processing of it all, all the time.

I can't see how your reasoning for the problem was any different from mine, except I gave a reason for not having a workaround as well. :confused:

[froggyluv 2136]

Since the game streams around the player, you can't have the player wandering off out of the AO whilst the AI are still in the AO. Or you get the Ai standing on non-rendered (and persumably, non-physics based) ground. And as you wander back, and that terrain gets streamed and rendered again. The AI would be stuck in terrian and probably have all manner of glitches/problems.

:

Still doesn't explain why you can't move a mere 20-30M away from deployed area.

[ricbar89 0]

No you have guessed a reason for not having a work around. Going by Codemasters its an impossibility, no matter how much memory there is available the engine physically cant do it, there isnt a work around.

So there is a difference in what were saying.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Moar like Operation Crappoint: Scripted tether

Game sounds like linear shit with a huge lack of content.

I mean you cant even change the time of day or weather in these "FTE" modes

CM is really F'ing lazy. FPDR

[jw custom 56]

...i think he should have distributed the bashing more even betwean all other bad things.

No versus multiplayer, no vehicles, no editor and no freedom?

Then it would have been a 30/100 :p

[eble 3]

and were off - Metacritic reviews are open.... first three for the RR PC version not so good lol

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/operation-flashpoint-red-river

[ArmAriffic 10]

can someone please tell me how this business (well not really, a business makes money) stays open, no one buys there products so wtf

[Zipper5 74]

The reason you seek is that people do actually buy this crap.

[4 IN 1 0]

It seems someone do buy their product.

[ben_s 11]

Still doesn't explain why you can't move a mere 20-30M away from deployed area.

Because the EGO engine has really small draw distances? :D

It's probably more to do with bad mission design and placing the mission boundry box in an odd place. (i.e. forgetting to place it)

@zipper,

People buy it because some people like it .. Much like how ArmA is only enjoyed by a specific market, or how flight sims are only enjoyed by a specfic market. This new OFP is only enjoyed by a, very, specific market.

However, CM are pretty stupid and are aiming to release it to the wrong market. (BF/COD one). Which we all know ends up with a game that is too action-styled to be fun for OFP/ArmA guys, and too tactical and boring for BF/CoD guys.

If CM picked a single market to make the game for. It might work ... better.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Ben_S

[Zipper5 74]

People buy it because some people like it ..

CM have had one game prior to RR to build an idea in the minds of potential customers as to the quality they can expect from their games, and said quality was pretty piss-poor. CM then released RR without any demo, and prior declared the game would go in a significantly different direction to DR. You cannot say they bought it because they like it (unless they acquired it prior to buying through "other means" which we will not discuss here), they bought it out of the hope they might like it if they played it.

Therefore, to address how you brought BIS' games into the equation: BIS have had OFP, ArmA and now Arma 2 to build an exact picture of the quality to expect from their future products. Plus, BIS do release demos either before or shortly after the release of their games. The same cannot and should not be said for CM.

Personally, I would call the market that enjoys these new OFPs masochists. :p

Edited April 26, 2011 by Zipper5

[ArmAriffic 10]

CM then released RR without any demo

Of course there was no demo, if there was absolutely no-one will buy there product

[Sibby 10]

A small clump of disgruntled milsim fans would avoid it, but the average gamers these days, that hits the millions, they seem to be having fun so far. ;)

[maturin 12]

I doubt this thing sells a million copies. Most 'average' gamers will be turned off either by the realism or the lack of flashy presentation and competitive multiplayer.

[njmatrix 2]

I think they made some good money off it(DR) Playstation magazine called it a must own shooter and not defending CM but OFDR actually became an awesome game (PC version).

The community did one thing no one here seems to be able to do. They got on the same page with mods and missions and became a team. They have a community DLC downloader which covers the whole community pretty much. They have a set of mods that tweaks the game where CM was either unable to do or didn't want todo.

I gotta tell ya when I want to get a game on with a couple friends DR is a pretty good one to do it with. No 3 versions to choose from, no figuring out if you have/need or want to download mods.

Add in a few other things like the new BEta 1.03 patch released, new AI MODS for 2011, OGU Downloader,SAR mission autodownloader, Nikneds mappack, Island Wars, stuff by GvsE and a few others and you have a solid game that runs awesome on decent machines and doesn't require alot of money to own (i picked up copies for like 5 bucks thru Amazon)

We have a great time with it. And last time I checked having a great time was what it was all about.

Red River seems ok in my opinion. It is an even further move away from the Original OFP. The coop only thing works for me and most of my friends (we don't do ArmA or DR pvp anyways). Add in unlocks and customization its pretty cool. Hey it runs upon release. I will own it for the PS3 as well.

I love the original OFP but I have come to love DR as well. We will see on Red River.

[maturin 12]

The community did one thing no one here seems to be able to do. They got on the same page with mods and missions and became a team.

Yeah, remove all the jets and freedom and potential from this game and our community will unite behind the only thing going too.

[10hellfire01 10]

Is the CM remake of OFP even compariable to Arma? Not seeing Bohemia on OFP2 just made me skip to Arma 2.

Never played it at all...