Development Blog & Reveals

Mousewheel is no rocket science and we have already considered it last year. But as with everything, there are pros and cons (you named a big one there) and all have to be taken into account.

I think it would be possible to allow both options, the controls have always been massively customisable in A2 anyway.

If you have a stance up and stance down control option along with the standard zxc style with modifier key arrangement then everyone would be happy I am sure.

I don't even see a need for a fight over whos style is best as both can be possible within the game at the same time, just give us the options.

Now that you are part of the team I guess you can have more say and input on how your animations are controlled now as well, unlike when they were a mod and you had to make sacrifices to get the functional controls in.

I am happy you are part of the BIS team now as I enjoyed the SMK addon.

Is flipping the bird going to make a comeback? ;)

Exactly what Liquidpinky said, if possible, leave both options and let players choose which one suits them best.

Maybe something similar to ACE's Self/World interaction popups would do the trick. I've always found it to be very intuitive and it seems very scalable/organized.

Mousewheel speed and keys only for UP/DOWN stance change are extremely unintuitive and unresponsive.

Imagine if you walk and see an enemy and you can't shoot him but you need to rush for cover and go prone? How will it look?

It will look like - you are walking, then you are tactical-pacing, then you are jogging, then you are sprinting, then you are slowing down to crouch and then you are going prone.

All while enemy laughs as he fills you with bullets.

Right now in ArmA2 you hit 2xW and you are immediately running then you hit prone and you are immediately prone.

Sure it will work in Splinter Cell when the world is player centric and you are going through linear corridors and always see all the enemies, while they don't see you. They won't run to kill you from the whole level either. But in ArmA every moment matters.

Mousewheel speed and keys only for UP/DOWN stance change are extremely unintuitive and unresponsive.

Imagine if you walk and see an enemy and you can't shoot him but you need to rush for cover and go prone? How will it look?

It will look like - you are walking, then you are tactical-pacing, then you are jogging, then you are sprinting, then you are slowing down to crouch and then you are going prone.

All while enemy laughs as he fills you with bullets.

Right now in ArmA2 you hit 2xW and you are immediately running then you hit prone and you are immediately prone.

Sure it will work in Splinter Cell when the world is player centric and you are going through linear corridors and always see all the enemies, while they don't see you. They won't run to kill you from the whole level either. But in ArmA every moment matters.

Nobody said double-W needs to go away... That can stay as removing it wouldn't free up the key anyways... Just add ability to control speed with mouse wheel, retain 2xW for emergency scenarios.

The crouched jog to prone transition looks amazing, I feel a real sense of weight in the soldier as his upper body falls to the ground. It's in the video at 10:56 -

OTDDwKQncEY&feature=plcp

@metalcraze : You're a bit contradicting yourself: how come 2xW is fast enough for walk/running but 2xY is not good for going up/prone ? it's just as fast...

As for the wheel use for speed, it's great in splinter cell, but I'm used to the actual scheme of A2 (eg : shift toggle + double tap for emergency sprint).

I think I'd better have the mouse control stance though : scroll wheel up/down for stance, and MMB+left right for analog lean or front back to go on your belly or back.

Of course, that would mean another order system (space bar + click or something else), but I never found the scroll wheel menu optimal anyway (it's easy to overshoot).

I also don't believe in the "make everything optional argument" : off course that's the ideal, but that's just no practical for BIS. If it's just key bindings, then fine, but if it's another completely different system (mouse control for instance) it's not really viable to have 2 totally antagonists systems being streamlined at the same time.

Mousewheel speed and keys only for UP/DOWN stance change are extremely unintuitive and unresponsive.

To you.

I use Joypad and mouse, analogue speed control with a sprint button on my mouse.

To change stance I use RMB and LMB, in all the FPS I play including A2 with prone and crouch combinations used. So to me it is very intuative.

Sprint and evasive forward overide crouch and prone.

Like I said earlier though, no need for the wars over whos is best method as both are possible within a decent customisable options menu and we can decide for ourselves if done that way.

No and unlikely to change due to the nature of the design.

I do not mind this, I just wanted to check. I'm already grateful as-is to you and Vespa for all the changes I've seen in the Gamescom build. :D

Don't like the idea about W being default for tactical jog. Because most of the time during a mission you're not in close combat. This isn't CounterStrike where you start 50m away from your enemy and have to expect contact 5 secounds after Mission start. Tactical Jog is supposed to be used in CQB only, since it's a bit slower than normal jog and uses up more stamina. Don't want to see the newbies in my squad "tactical jog" trough the landscape.

I find this somewhat silly as a reason (specifically the comparisons to other shooters and not wanting to see "newbies" tactical pace as default -- even though that's the easiest transition for them to get into ARMA 3), but then again thanks to the designs of ARMA 2 missions I've played, I'm used to just sprinting whenever I have to go anywhere past 50 meters from my current position. :rolleyes: In fairness though, I'm okay with W being the ARMA jog and Shift+W being tactical pace.

metalcraze, for me only a high-quality implementation of low ready would be interesting (that is to say, low ready isn't so important that I'd be willing to put up with a "crap" implementation), but the basic idea as discussed in the thread is interesting.

I'm also okay with keeping the existing Z/X (or Z/X/C) and Q/E for ease of adoption... some people find the traditional setup more intuitive (due to it having been used this long) than others, do some of you lack the ability to put yourselves in another person's mindset? :rolleyes: Liquidpinky gets this, even if I wouldn't use that particular setup (it's not intuitive for me but it is to him).

Nobody said double-W needs to go away... That can stay as removing it wouldn't free up the key anyways... Just add ability to control speed with mouse wheel, retain 2xW for emergency scenarios.

If you read what I wrote carefully - the issue is much deeper than 2xW. The issue is that changing speed with a mouse wheel is sloooooow and you can't immediately go from running to snail's pace. Besides mouse wheel is needed for the menu. But why the non-mouse wheel menu won't work is the stuff of the neighboring thread.

I use Joypad and mouse, analogue speed control with a sprint button on my mouse.

But mouse isn't joypad. Let each device do what it does best. Mouse cannot do analog control right.

Edited August 21, 2012 by metalcraze

Mousewheel and 2x W are both bad. How about Alt-W like Skyrim? Better yet, just tap Alt once to toggle sprint.

Mousewheel and 2x W are both bad. How about Alt-W like Skyrim? Better yet, just tap Alt once to toggle sprint.

Alt is view! Alt has never and will never have anything to do with movement. So say we all! Double W is just fine, shift works too. Get off my lawn. Whoever thinks using mousewheel as a movement key should probably be sterilized. :)

@Smookie & Vespa,

If A3 does indeed get a modernized interaction menu system

(ex. hold a key

[sPACE BAR]

? & use mouse movement to select)

this will free up the

[MouseWheel]

from action items.

As

Sniperwolf572

suggested,

[MouseWheel]

to control movement speed

might

work great.

Mousewheel speed and keys only for UP/DOWN stance change are extremely unintuitive and unresponsive.

Imagine if you walk and see an enemy and you can't shoot him but you need to rush for cover and go prone? How will it look?

It will look like - you are walking, then you are tactical-pacing, then you are jogging, then you are sprinting, then you are slowing down to crouch and then you are going prone.

All while enemy laughs as he fills you with bullets.

Right now in ArmA2 you hit 2xW and you are immediately running then you hit prone and you are immediately prone.

Hey! This has been my idea from some time, don't steal :P

Have several speeds selected with mouse wheel up/down, and a grid of icons that appear holding a key and then click on them with the mouse cursor for actions.

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

No, for movement speed I can scroll up as fast as i can press a key twice. It's only a movement of the finger up. It's the same action as scrolling this very same browser window to the top, a quick movement with the finger. The key is how you don't need to count how many "ticks" are you passing with your mouse wheel, as you know you just need to hit the maximum, so you just do a fast scroll movement, of 5-6 mouse wheel up "ticks" and done.

+1

using the scroll wheel to control movement speed would be so awesome. it's one of the more memorable features of the splinter cell series that i really loved. it allows the player to have a finer control of his characters movements. it would be good to also use it along with a modifier key to control the player's stance. thats not to say that having the option to just use keys shouldn't be there. personally i would like to see the action menu removed from the scroll wheel. as Turin Turambar mentioned, having an action rotary menu pop up in the center of the screen would be far more intuitive than the current system. make it a rotary menu with a branching tree structure, and it'll speed up the selection process. it would free up the number keys for more convenient, and more practical use. 1-Primary 2-Primary-secondary function(M203-GP25) 3-Secondary 4-Grenades(press again to cycle through types of grenades, ei. frag, gas, smoke) 5-explosives (press to cycle, satchel, mines). the idea is to keep all combat essential actions, as close to the control hand as possible. the F key (cycle fire mode) should only be for cycling your primary's fire mode selector. switching through [semi-auto-grenade-smoke grenade-satchel] is really cumbersome.. to say the least.

Lol, a lot of fighting over what are already fully customisable controls going on in this topic.

I don't even know how others can get so het up about it.

Currently in A2, if I had a USB device up my arse to measure when I farted and then to automatically throw a smoke grenade I could practically make it work in A2 already (might take some pissing around in Xpadder as well though).

All we need is to be allowed to map whatever action we want to whatever input we want, having both analogue and digital versions of the controls, like there already is for throttle control etc. and indeed already exist for movement speed if you decide to go the analogue route over keyboard control methods.

Currently in A2 the controls are completely customisable, all they have to do is carry on the tradition and keep it that way.

And maybe allow the use of the xbox controllers left trigger as an actual trigger please, the only damn thing I need to fire xpadder up for in A2.

Lol, a lot of fighting over what are already fully customisable controls going on in this topic.

lol, my daughter would be smoking up the house with your USB device.. What would the resale value of that be?

Meeeeyeeahh... See, Y'all are messed up even using WSAD on a 101 key board. Arrow keys FTW! Ins/home/pgup for stances, del/ pgdwn for lean.. see I'm RIGHT!! :p

(continue slinging)

On a constructive note, since NOBODY will be totally happy with any preset, may I simply suggest a series of (graphical explained) presets to get the gamer close to the preferred selection to tweak?

Possibly even breaking down the area of the keyboard into subsets? (example: numpad, function keys, alpha). <- This may be a bit much, but the concept of several common keybinds available would be fantastic in my eyes.

On a constructive note, since NOBODY will be totally happy with any preset, may I simply suggest a series of (graphical explained) presets to get the gamer close to the preferred selection to tweak?

Possibly even breaking down the area of the keyboard into subsets? (example: numpad, function keys, alpha). <- This may be a bit much, but the concept of several common keybinds available would be fantastic in my eyes.

Constructive indeed, nice suggestion.

Are we discussing keybinds for floor demos? Because hell I just rebind keys to how I like them when I get a game, I could care less, and so should many others about the default binds.

Are we discussing keybinds for floor demos? Because hell I just rebind keys to how I like them when I get a game, I could care less, and so should many others about the default binds.

i agree completely about rebinding, i just don't want the action menu on the scroll wheel, and have it cluttered with cumbersome actions. setting a satchel or mine should not be done through the action menu(way too many cases of fully loaded choppers blowing to bits cause the get in option flashes briefly and caused a player to drop a satchel. if you want to place them, select them like we currently do with binos and hand guns.

Yeah, but interesting news from the Gamescom videos is they are discussing possible changes to the action menu, maybe a new action menu altogether. So hopefully the ever-so-wonderful accidental satchel incidents, which I'm sure everyone has had including me on numerous occasions, will happen less and less. I actually like ACE's menu for planting explosives as it leaves little room for accidents, though I'm not saying it has to be like ACE's, but perhaps more itemized depending on what your working with.

Dynamo;2211749']i agree completely about rebinding' date=' i just don't want the action menu on the scroll wheel, and have it cluttered with cumbersome actions. setting a satchel or mine should not be done through the action menu(way too many cases of fully loaded choppers blowing to bits cause the get in option flashes briefly and caused a player to drop a satchel. if you want to place them, select them like we currently do with binos and hand guns.[/quote']

How the hell can you place a satchel and touch it off in one move? I would be thinking about kicking the player for grieving if that was happening, it requires two actions to do.

It is a pain in the arse having to pick the misplaced satchel back up again and then get in the intact heli with a red face however, if you haven't already been auto-kicked for placing a satchel at base. Which is a problem.

Having a separate explosives hotkey would be welcome.

How the hell can you place a satchel and touch it off in one move? I would be thinking about kicking the player for grieving if that was happening, it requires two actions to do.

It has happened to me sometimes while planting a satchel, probably double pressed the use key. Doesn't help that it is the top action on the menu.

How the hell can you place a satchel and touch it off in one move? I would be thinking about kicking the player for grieving if that was happening, it requires two actions to do.

It is a pain in the arse having to pick the misplaced satchel back up again and then get in the intact heli with a red face however, if you haven't already been auto-kicked for placing a satchel at base. Which is a problem.

Having a separate explosives hotkey would be welcome.

What's a real bitch was with one for old addons where you could attach satchels to vehicles, there'd be cases where I'm just wizzing through the scroll menu and plant one while trying to board a vehicle in a hurry. It didn't happen often, but oh god when it did I'd go into a mix of rage and OHSHITOHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT trying to make sure I won't accidentally detonate the damn thing.

How the hell can you place a satchel and touch it off in one move? I would be thinking about kicking the player for grieving if that was happening, it requires two actions to do.

It is a pain in the arse having to pick the misplaced satchel back up again and then get in the intact heli with a red face however, if you haven't already been auto-kicked for placing a satchel at base. Which is a problem.

Having a separate explosives hotkey would be welcome.

it's a very common issue, when a chopper is bouncing around. once the satchel is on the ground, you have to select to deactivate it.. problem is when the chopper is bouncing around, the menu item starts flickering randomly.. so the selection starts hoping around [Get in] [Deactivate satchel] [set of satchel]. most of the domination servers have disabled the "kick on planting of satchel at base" feature because of this, and have simply opted to delete the satchel when it's planted. having a dedicated key for explosives would fix that problem. then if someone plants a satchel at base, you know it was on purpose since they have to equip the satchel to place it. could have it set up like "equip explosive, left mouse to plant, right mouse to detonate", and deactivation can be done with a quick action menu. look down at the explosive, deactivate option icon pops up, press your "use/interaction" key.

You can already set satchels by cycling through F and Left-Clicking MB - Set Satchel & Touch Off need to be removed from the Action menu, because this is an accident, which is waiting to happen. :cc:

Timer functions could still be retained via Action menu; Touch Off would happen by cycling through F and selecting the placed satchel, then Left-Clicking.

Basically, what I would do: unload the Action menu from similar actions that should not be there and then possibly rework the Action menu system to something like radial selection by one key (middle mouse button, or whatever you bind it to) depress activation -> mouse over -> releasing the depressed key/button will trigger the action.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin