Alternative to current 'step over fence'

[ladlon 10]

The 'step over fence' action is okay, but sometimes a little awkward or inaccurate.

Would it not be smarter to simply have your guy automatically step over anything that he is trying to 'pass through'? When you hit the low fence, and are continuing to try and move through it, just have the climb over action trigger.

Again, the current system is generally fine, but on some occasions, I find I'm not positioned exactly right to climb over properly, and end up still at the same side of the fence, after doing my little pantomime!

Just a thought...

[NeMeSiS 11]

No, what if i want to hug a wall? I prefer a button for every action and dont let the game try to guess what i want to do.

[DaveP 66]

One idea would be to make it more context sensitive, mods like ACE 2 show that we can gauge the height of objects (As with weapon-resting) and so having either a 'step over' or a 'climb through' would be theoretically possible

More importantly, however, I'd personally wish to see an AI implementation of it, men running straight through obstacles is one of the most obvious 'bugs' in the game

[ladlon 10]

Ya, NeMeSis... I thought of that, but it wouldn't trigger the second you hit the wall, but instead after you are trying to go through the wall. There's a natural delay in real life as well.

But, ya, I see the merit in either system... it's just that the current one sometimes is a LITTLE frustrating, as it's often hard to tell if you are in the proper spot, and it's embarrassing when you do this whole pantomime, only to find you are still on the same side of the fence afterwards! It's fine if you are in 3rd person mode.

Not a biggie... Just a thought.

Sounds like ACE2 is trying to address it a bit.

[LJF 0]

I prefer having the button too, though I'd really like a climb onto/off of object, so you could haul yourself onto objects and up to higher vantage points, likewise, you could get off a building without breaking your legs :D

[Meek 10]

I don't like the idea of it being done automatically, I am just doubtful it would work 100% correctly.

Although, it would be nice for the action to be context-sensitive, being able to do the step-over action when there is nothing to step over feels like a cheap hack.

[Lethn 10]

Context sensitive stuff usually just doesn't work well in games, the command menu and the like is bad enough.

[pAuthority 10]

It's annoying when you're doing something completely different (like running for cover when you're being shot at) and you accidentally hit V and you start doing that animation. While you're being shot at.

edit: It'd be nice if you could stop the animation, or at least make it so that nothing happens unless you're standing next to an obstacle.

[coopr 10]

It's annoying when you're doing something completely different (like running for cover when you're being shot at) and you accidentally hit V and you start doing that animation. While you're being shot at.

edit: It'd be nice if you could stop the animation, or at least make it so that nothing happens unless you're standing next to an obstacle.

Would be great indeed.

But height detection is a must.. i think its called manteling right? so that the animation and time it takes is different for every different height.

I hate the fact when ur under fire and you want to run to cover it takes you 2 min to get over a knee height fench.

[ladlon 10]

Ya, I agree with both sides of the argument... I wasn't 100% 'must have it automatic', but at the same time, wasn't fully happy with how it currently is. Just seemed like if you are trying to walk through a fence, it might as well climb over it automatically.

Certainly isn't a gamebraker by any means... Just once in a blue moon, you try climbing over a little fence, and realize that you weren't quite in the right position... and for a brief moment, it's a bit of a frustration as you look down, reassess your position, adjust and try again.

Kind of reminds me of the one Monty Python skit (...obscure reference alert!...) where John Cleese plays a boxer, and there a scene where he is jogging along a city street until he comes up to a parked car, stands there confused for a moment, then turns and runs the other way.

[maturin 12]

Keep the step over button, but some sort of running jump could work. If you hit a fence at speed then you'll automatically jump over it without breaking pace.

[sidhellfire 0]

Big thumb up over that adaptive obstacle avoiding. I would replace default space button with V key for commands, and make space a multi-functional press-and-hold. Just hold space to perform adequate move.

If the wall is a bit too hight, another player could just hold key and assist another one.

[pAuthority 10]

One good thing about Call of duty games, is how fluently you can move over obstacles.

edit: basically when you move near a wall for example, you get a text "Press space to leap over" or something similar. This context-sensitive menu was used also for ladders and usable objects, doors etc. if I remember correct.

Edited April 10, 2010 by pAuthority

[maturin 12]

One good thing about Call of duty games, is how fluently you can move over obstacles.

edit: basically when you move near a wall for example, you get a text "Press space to leap over" or something similar. This context-sensitive menu was used also for ladders and usable objects, doors etc. if I remember correct.

A better model would be GTA, which was open-world. CoD's tiny levels are carved from diamond by nail files.

[ladlon 10]

Here's a thought.... I fully understand why some people would not want an automatic climb if you hit a fence (...since, I'm assuming, they worry that you might accidentally climb when running to a fence).

Fair enough... But how about this.... Rather than it doing it automatically.. and rather than you having to stand in the right spot and press V... You instead have a 'modifier' button/key (of sorts) that you can hold down. If held down, it does the auto climb if you collide with a fence. Without it pressed, it acts like the current Arma2 system. That way, if you WANT to be hopping fluently over each fence, you simply hold down the key (much like you hold down shift to walk), and each time you hit a fence, you hop over it. Let go, and the auto hop stops.

[Alex72 1]

Run up to an obstacle so your standing against it - press the step over button. Whats so hard with it? I missed sometime but basically never happens.

I dont like automated functions since this is supposed to be at least a bit simlike. I like doing everything and guess what - with time you learn in this game. You need to practise before saying everything should change in the game.

[SWT_Janowich 10]

If you want to have it fast and fluent, assign the "step over"

key to "douple tap W", so you just press W two times and then you step

over it

[ladlon 10]

@Alex72: I think claiming that I say 'everything should change in the game' is completely unjustified.

This was a 'suggestion' (which I even stated repeatedly was not a major issue)... not a demand or a statement about the game being broken or stupid.

Edited April 11, 2010 by ladlon

[NoRailgunner 0]

I prefer to choose what I like to do - not what some automatic features force me to do.

Would be stupid if you would like to go prone behind a object/wall/fence but than the auto step-over kicks in. And of course no (colored) consolish action "press-this-and-that" buttons on your screen or some of those arrow signs (sic!).

[ladlon 10]

Agreed, that's why I suggest the 'modifier' key that you hold down IF you want to climb over stuff. When you hold it down, you auto climb over things. When you don't hold it down, you don't. Basically, like what we have now, except that instead of the key triggering a climb at that very moment (requiring you to be in the right spot exactly), it triggers a climb when you hit the object (insuring that you ARE in the right spot). Minor difference, but might be better.

Again, not saying it's a big issue... Just something I was thinking.

And, ya, no console icons! Totally! ('Mash the triangle key repeatedly to kill enemy')

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

Edited April 11, 2010 by ladlon

[eggbeast 3684]

in cod radiant you have to manually place a mantle texture on every wall or windows sill that will allow the animation to be triggered. then you get a hint come up as you approach the (visually hidden) texture, and you press activate and the game engine does the rest. it knows the height of the obstacle because you have to manually make your mantle texture the same size as the wall etc (in fact slightly bigger)

this doesn't mea nit can't be done by a script calculating heights, but i thought i'd mention it as i have done a lot of map making in cod from UO to WAW. In UO, we all loved the versatile tuck jumps you could do (jump at a window and go into crouch as you reach the sill, so you sail under the top of the window frame) - they brought an element of skilful manoeuvre to the game - you could leave a noob standing as you jumped into or out of a window...

however, then cod2 put in the mantled jump, which looks nice but is really crappy to play. and it means that only mantled walls can now be vaulted, so taking away the free-running realism they had in the original.

but then adding a jump function would changethe game a lot... there would undoubtedly be bunny hoppers.

i'd like to be able to jump and roll into a kneeling firing position... with a 20% random chance of sprawling forwards anddropping my weapon lol

i should addthat having put in a spawn ladder function to my missions, i find it heartbreakingthat i am on one roof looking at another but i cant make the leap of 6 feet across the space from one roof to another...

Edited April 11, 2010 by eggbeast

[ladlon 10]

Seems like games/sims still need to break that whole flexibility barrier. Obviously it's extremely complex, but is something I'm hoping will eventually be addressed somehow.

True freedom of moment... both in body posture and freedom of moving on/over/to objects (...including, like you said, jumping from things you normally should be able to).

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you also have the tricky glitches by having the EXISTING freedom... like standing on a ledge with just one toe over it, and the rest of you off the edge... or landing on a stair railing, landing perfectly on it.

I suppose one 'catch all' would be to have that trigger some random stumble (until you hit 'proper ground')... but I don't know...

Speaking of which, the OPTION (...guys, I said OPTION, not FORCED...) of having things like random stumbling/tripping if running through an 'uneven' area (forest, where there's assumed roots and stuff on the ground). Done right, it could be 'amusingly frustrating' and add tension... as long as it isn't overused.

But, this all requires the public to decide if the game (be it Arma or whatever) is a pure translation of your intended moves (...like an arcade game)... or more sim like, with randomness (...you indicate what you WANT to do, but that may not be what your virtual body MANAGES to do).

Just curious if and how sims will address this sort of stuff in the future....

[coopr 10]

Seems like games/sims still need to break that whole flexibility barrier. Obviously it's extremely complex, but is something I'm hoping will eventually be addressed somehow.

True freedom of moment... both in body posture and freedom of moving on/over/to objects (...including, like you said, jumping from things you normally should be able to).

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you also have the tricky glitches by having the EXISTING freedom... like standing on a ledge with just one toe over it, and the rest of you off the edge... or landing on a stair railing, landing perfectly on it.

I suppose one 'catch all' would be to have that trigger some random stumble (until you hit 'proper ground')... but I don't know...

Speaking of which, the OPTION (...guys, I said OPTION, not FORCED...) of having things like random stumbling/tripping if running through an 'uneven' area (forest, where there's assumed roots and stuff on the ground). Done right, it could be 'amusingly frustrating' and add tension... as long as it isn't overused.

But, this all requires the public to decide if the game (be it Arma or whatever) is a pure translation of your intended moves (...like an arcade game)... or more sim like, with randomness (...you indicate what you WANT to do, but that may not be what your virtual body MANAGES to do).

Just curious if and how sims will address this sort of stuff in the future....

Agreed.. some people think that movement needs to be complex to act like a simulator.. so you end up with the feeling your unit isn't doing what you really want it to do.

I totally diasgree with that, its all about finding the right balance.. there are people who can turn a big arcade game into a war simulator just by finding the right balance between gameplay and realism. If you have a look at the mod project reality for battlefied2 they did a hell of a job.. of turning the well known bunnyhoping game bf2 into a smooth running war simulator.

I'm not saying that we need to turn arma2 in a bunnyhopping game. But it would be great to have a manteling with a key press. So you could get on small buildings etc..

[wamingo 1]

I quite like the idea of Context Aware features to be honest.

We're already half way there with mounting vehicles, ladders, doors, ammo boxes, and possibly a few more, all requiring just aiming your cursor at it and the Use button. That certainly didn't break the game -- although aiming can be tricky sometimes; ladders and dead bodies.. Grrrr!. :)

The case for a "Smart" button is a good one I think - ie one you hold while moving up to a context sensitive object and the appropriate action occurs; jump the fence, climb the ladder, kick the door (I know, I'm dreaming), climb the ledge, etc.

Maybe you've already seen it, but the upcoming game Brink promises something along these lines. About 2 mins into

shows how holding the 'Smart' button while running and looking up or down allows you to either leap over or slide under the metal detector.

Of course such manuevers would be silly in arma, but I think the principle is good.

I admit though, I have no idea where to fit in any more buttons on my already outrageously busy keyboard setup. ;)

It would probably have to be a Space, Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Windows key?... type thing.

edit: I linked the wrong video... doh

Edited April 25, 2010 by wamingo
wrong vid

[chaplainDMK 10]

Make it like Call of Duty, come to an obstacle and if you can climb over it will show a symbol. If you cant, tough luck :D